Sir Bono

[Dreadsox]

Yeah!!!!

 

[Vincent Vega]

Juhu!!!

 

[Varitek]

There's a very FYM type conversation going on in EYKIW about Irish accepting British knighthood. Just thought I'd point the way, I have no opinion on this being American. Other than, good for Bono.

 

[U2democrat]

Even though he technically won't be called "Sir" Bono because he isn't a British national, we Americans can play on our "ignorance" and still call him Sir

 

[financeguy]

If Paul Hewson / 'Bono' accepts this award, then he will have displayed himself to be a tool on two different levels.

Firstly, no Irish person should accept such an award from a British Queen while her forces are STILL in occupation of part of the national territory. (It has nothing to do 'moving on from the past', as some of you are arguing in the other thread.)

Secondly, no true artist would accept this type of award as it clearly could be deemed to prejudice their independence.

 

[BVS]

Secondly, no true artist would accept this type of award as it clearly could be deemed to prejudice their independence.

That's BS! No one can judge who or what makes a true artist.

 

[financeguy]

That's BS! No one can judge who or what makes a true artist.

Ok, I might have overstated it slightly. What I meant is that artists who chose to accept these types of awards run a serious risk that their independence will be compromised.

No-one can deny the man has - or at least had - plenty of talent as an artist. His talent is all too evident. It's an awful pity he has now flushed the remnants of his artistic integrity down the toilet.

 

[Mr. Green Eyes]

Well, at lease he'll be Sir Bono to all of his fans.

 

[Nube Gris]

Sir Bono

 

[Liesje]

It's an awful pity he has now flushed the remnants of his artistic integrity down the toilet.

Speak for yourself.

I'm fine with his decision, whatever it is. It's his choice. I'm not going to start calling him names because of some award that has really become more of a symbolic gesture.

 

[ntalwar]

It's an awful pity he has now flushed the remnants of his artistic integrity down the toilet.

I don't think any less of Beatles music after Paul McCartney accepted a knighthood. I'm not a fan of Paul's recent material, but I don't think the knighthood had anything to do with it. Bono has also accepted "highest awards" from Chile and Argentina, so it seems as if you are placing too much importance on this British "honor". I personally don't view it much higher than an honorary degree from a university.

 

[AchtungJedi]

many congrats to bono .

 

[Varitek]

Ok, I might have overstated it slightly. What I meant is that artists who chose to accept these types of awards run a serious risk that their independence will be compromised.

No-one can deny the man has - or at least had - plenty of talent as an artist. His talent is all too evident. It's an awful pity he has now flushed the remnants of his artistic integrity down the toilet.

The Irish issue is a legitimate one to debate but this is absolute bullshit. There are countless artists who have accepted the award, and it does not compromise independence. It is an honor like many others, but conferred from a specific country. He is not obligated to serve the queen or submit his work for review. It has no effect on his artistic integrity, only an arguable effect on his political/Irish integrity. And that is up for debate.

 

[Dreadsox]

Maybe it does not mean to some of us what it might mean to the Irish or the Scottish, or any other group that is being ruled by Britain.

 

[Vincent Vega]

He said himself, he only cares for the white part of the Irish flag.

And I as long as he doesn't praise the Queen in every oncoming song I don't have any problem with this honour.

I also think it a bit far stretched to make any connection between the knighthood and his artistic integrity.

 

[Laura M]

Firstly, no Irish person should accept such an award from a British Queen

I think most people here think it's ridiculous that he's accepting it for this reason too.

 

[Vincent Vega]

He is Irish himself, isn't he?


As Bob Geldof is.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/819490.stm

And Sean Connery is very active in fighting for Scottish independency.

 

[Liesje]

Maybe it does not mean to some of us what it might mean to the Irish or the Scottish, or any other group that is being ruled by Britain.

Probably not, but I don't think Bono's artistic independence means more to Irish people because he's Irish. If people have a problem accepting this award b/c he's Irish, fine, but that's really the end of it. No need to be making up stuff about how his artistic ability is being compromised.

 

[Dreadsox]

He is Irish himself, isn't he?


As Bob Geldof is.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/819490.stm

And Sean Connery is very active in fighting for Scottish independency.

So this means what?

I know plenty of Americans who support the invasion of Iraq, that does not mean all Americans have the same experience.

 

[Vincent Vega]

I mean that for example accepting the knighthood in the case of Sean Connery didn't mean in any way that he became less a fighter for Scottish independence.

So one can accept knighthood and still not enjoy the Queen being the head of his state.

In the case of Bono, I don't see the connection between his artistic independence and the knighthood, sorry.


And, no, I know, Ireland doesn't have the Queen as the head of the state

 

[Dreadsox]

[Q]In the case of Bono, I don't see the connection between his artistic independence and the knighthood, sorry.[/Q]

I agree with you, but I still think that not being Irish, I am not going to throw out Finance Guys opinions. He is living there, I am not.

 

[financeguy]

There are actually quite a number of examples of artists turning down these kind of honours.

The poet Benjamin Zephaniah, film director Ken Loach and author Anthony Powell are three examples that spring to mind.

 

[LJT]

I mean that for example accepting the knighthood in the case of Sean Connery didn't mean in any way that he became less a fighter for Scottish independence.

So one can accept knighthood and still not enjoy the Queen being the head of his state.

In the case of Bono, I don't see the connection between his artistic independence and the knighthood, sorry.


And, no, I know, Ireland doesn't have the Queen as the head of the state

There haven't been the same sort of injustices carried out in the name of the queen in Scotland in the past 100 years as there has been in Ireland, and some injustices are far too recent here to just forget about as some people seemed to suggest in other threads.

Honestly not sure how to take Bono accepting the honorary knighthood, personally I wouldn't have taken it....and I really don't see how it lends him any more political weight than he already has.

 

[financeguy]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benjamin_Zephaniah

"In November 2003, Zephaniah wrote in The Guardian [1] that he was turning down the invitation to accept the honour of the position of Officer of the Order of British Empire (OBE) award from Queen Elizabeth II since it reminded him of 'thousands of years of brutality, it reminds me of how my foremothers were raped and my forefathers brutalized'. He continued to say 'Stick it, Mr. Blair and Mrs. Queen, stop going on about empire.' It was unusual to do so publicly, since the convention for rejecting the award is to do so privately. He said that he had nothing against the Queen personally, and that 'She's a bit stiff, but a nice old lady.'"


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthony_Powell

In the case of Mr Powell, it seems that he did actually accept a CBE but turned down a knighthood subsequently:-

"Through his writings, Anthony Powell would go on to international fame. He was made Companion of the Order of the British Empire (CBE) in 1956, and in 1973 he declined the offer of knighthood. He was appointed Companion of Honour (CH) in 1988. "

Of course, these are just a small number of examples of persons in artistic professions who have turned down honours, and there are plenty more who have accepted such honours.

 

[BVS]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benjamin_Zephaniah

"In November 2003, Zephaniah wrote in The Guardian [1] that he was turning down the invitation to accept the honour of the position of Officer of the Order of British Empire (OBE) award from Queen Elizabeth II since it reminded him of 'thousands of years of brutality, it reminds me of how my foremothers were raped and my forefathers brutalized'. He continued to say 'Stick it, Mr. Blair and Mrs. Queen, stop going on about empire.' It was unusual to do so publicly, since the convention for rejecting the award is to do so privately. He said that he had nothing against the Queen personally, and that 'She's a bit stiff, but a nice old lady.'"

So his guesture is about as empty and meaningless as the title itself.

 

[financeguy]

So his guesture is about as empty and meaningless as the title itself.

If these titles are so empty and meaningless, then maybe you'd explain to me why most of the British press carried the story on their front pages.

 

[BVS]

If these titles are so empty and meaningless, then maybe you'd explain to me why most of the British press carried the story on their front pages.

The same reason a crotch shot of Brittney makes the front pages, it sells newspapers...

Does he have any new powers now? Does he get to carry a sword?

 

[Golightly Grrl]

I just hope Ali dresses Bono for the ceremony. Can't have Bono looking like a hot mess.

 

[Vincent Vega]

There haven't been the same sort of injustices carried out in the name of the queen in Scotland in the past 100 years as there has been in Ireland, and some injustices are far too recent here to just forget about as some people seemed to suggest in other threads.

Honestly not sure how to take Bono accepting the honorary knighthood, personally I wouldn't have taken it....and I really don't see how it lends him any more political weight than he already has.

OK, considering the treatment of the Irish and of the Scots the comparison isn't the best one, I agree.
Still I think everybody should make up his own mind how he would think of being accepted the knighthood, but also except other people's decision if the accept the knighthood.

And I understand yours and Finance Guy's take on it very well, just don't see the connection with the artistic integrity.

I don't think Bono will have "any more political weight". The title is not meaningless at all, but people wouldn't be seen any more important in doing politics, or have any more weight.

I can understand the reasons why Zaphania didn't accept the knighthood, as I would understand any Jew if he turned down the German "Bundesverdienstkreuz". No one could ever forget what the Brits and Scottish Presbyterians did during the past centuries.
And I don't think Bono did.

 

[Bono's shades]

I can see both sides of this issue. I understand why Irish people in particular would be upset. But even back when the band wrote Sunday Bloody Sunday they were all about healing the divisions - remember, Bono said "This is not a rebel song." So is he really betraying what he's said/done in the past?

It's hard to say. I'm just glad he's not going to have "Sir" in front of his name because that would sound ridiculous and pretentious.