Sick of hearing about the Afgan civilian casualties

[wolfwill23]

Ok, it's sad if innocent civilians are dying in Afganistan because of American bombs. However, I am sick of hearing about it!!!!!!! The middle-eastern enemies of ours really know how to play up to the camera (a trick Saddam used and uses qutie well.)

You think the Taliban leaders give a shit if a few civilians die? No way. What happens to a woman if she's caught showing a little too much sin or if she's accused of practicing Christianity? Dead. No trial, no nothing. Just an AK to the back of the head in a football stadium.

All this talk about the civilians over there is making me sick! I think we lost a few civilians recently, LIKE 5 FUCKING THOUSAND!!!!!!! Why don't we hear about them anymore? Sure, we had a week of mourning, but that's all over now.

We have to remember every day that these people had dreams, a favorite band and ambitions in life. Those things were taken away from them for no reason.

Now we have to make sure that we don't offend the Muslims of the world by not bombing on their holy day. What do you think their holy day consisted of? Non-stop prayer or a little prayer and a lot of planning attacks against America. Now we have to appologize for every Afgan civilian casuality. This scares me. We were the ones who were attacked and are still under attack.

Every day that goes by (prayer day or not) that Bin laden is alive, is a day that we are one step closer to more innocent Americans dying.

If we fight a "PC" war, I don't know that we'll make it through this one. Americans need to get mad, real mad. We have a job to do and we need to do it. That job is to kill Bin laden, the Taliban leaders and every scumbag associated with these terrorist organizations.

Nuff said.

[DoctorGonzo]

Ok, it's sad if innocent civilians are dying in Afganistan because of American bombs. However, I am sick of hearing about it!!!!!!!

Well, they died just in the past few days. I guess one mention on the news is too much for you. Guess what? People are dying because of our actions. Not just evil bad men in caves, but those who have no control over their government, who have no love for Osama Bin Laden and just happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time when a country decided to come in and kill some people it felt were responsible for a crime.

Sound familar?

The middle-eastern enemies of ours really know how to play up to the camera (a trick Saddam used and uses qutie well.)

Yes, convince yourself it is all propaganda.

You think the Taliban leaders give a shit if a few civilians die?

That's not the point. The Taliban didn't kill them. We did.

All this talk about the civilians over there is making me sick!

Nice double-standard. You win the hypocrisy award for this post.

I think we lost a few civilians recently, LIKE 5 FUCKING THOUSAND!!!!!!! Why don't we hear about them anymore? Sure, we had a week of mourning, but that's all over now.

Al-Queda live in caves, but have a better awareness of world and national events than you do, apparently, which renders the old adage "Have you been living in a.....for the past month?" rather redundant.

I haven't been able to turn on the TV or walk around any reasonably urbanized area for five minutes without hearing about the victims of the September 11th attacks.

We have to remember every day that these people had dreams, a favorite band and ambitions in life.

And the Afganastan civillians did not?

Those things were taken away from them for no reason.

I'm sure everyone in Afganastan supports the Taliban and Osama Bin Laden.

Now we have to make sure that we don't offend the Muslims of the world by not bombing on their holy day. What do you think their holy day consisted of? Non-stop prayer or a little prayer and a lot of planning attacks against America.

If they bombed us on Christmas morning, would you still see it as a regular terrorist attack, or as something worse? A relgious and cultural affront, perhaps? Wouldn't our allies that are nations made of predominanty Christians feel the same way? Wouldn't there be a good chance of that magnifying our response? Now wouldn't bombing Afganastan on their Holy Day leave our Muslim allies equally disturbed?

Of course not, that would require the use of some common sense. Something which you lack, apparently.

Now we have to appologize for every Afgan civilian casuality.

Yeah, respect for human life is so damn inconvient, isn't it?

This scares me.

The fact you value the human life of people within your national borders more than that of people half the world away, scares me.

We were the ones who were attacked and are still under attack.

So that makes it OK to throw out our respect for innocent human life?

Every day that goes by (prayer day or not) that Bin laden is alive, is a day that we are one step closer to more innocent Americans dying.

True.

But even if he dies, there will be 10 more waiting to take his place. This cult of personality around Bin Laden ignores the fact that he is more of a symbolic enemy in this conflict than a real one. Now, I do not discount the fact that he is a very dangerous man, but I have a major problem with somehow viewing him as the enemy.

If we fight a "PC" war, I don't know that we'll make it through this one.

If Americans have a hard time dealing with respecting human life and valuing the lives of non-combatants in foreign nations just as much as they value their own, then perhaps they need to reevaluate their morals.

Throwing out international law and basic human decency puts us at a level below that of the terrorists. Below them because we choose to take the low-road when we can easily take the high one. We choose to ignore civillian deaths overseas while never shying away from an oppertunity to show our collective outrage of those here on our own soil.

Americans need to get mad, real mad.

YES! Get angry! Act out of rage, not reason!

What a fucking moronic statement. We are already pissed off, whipping oursleves into a blind rage so it is easier to ignore the very principles we so profusely claim to hold sacred makes us just as bad as Osama Bin Laden.

We have a job to do and we need to do it.

You are showing exactly the same rationale used by Al-Queda and their associates.

- We have been wronged.
- Our civillians have been attacked.
- Therefore we should abandon all restraint and act indifferent to civiillian casualties because they are not like us.

That job is to kill Bin laden, the Taliban leaders and every scumbag associated with these terrorist organizations.

Will The School of The Americas be raided? Will Henry Kissinger be arrested and put on trial, too?

They are terrorists as much as Osama Bin Laden is. However, in our hypocritical quest, their crimes will once again be ignored.

[Diemen]

I would add my own 2¢ on this topic, but DoctorGonzo seems to have covered pretty much everything. Excellent response, Doc!

[HelloAngel]

Amen, Doc -

It's nice to see someone with sense and a respect for human life finally lay it out for those who cannot see how America must look outside of our own borders, and that human life is precious, no matter nation or creed. All loss of human life is tragic - not just America's own.

------------------
Here's to the few who forgive what you do
and the fewer who don't even care
--Leonard Cohen

[foray]

You are selfish, wolfwill.

foray

[bonoman]

This is one of the most un-thoughtout posts i have ever seen. Fuck. There are brainless ppl still around.

------------------
Running to Stand Still-"you gotta cry without weeping, talk without speaking, scream without raising your voice."

"we're not burning out we're burning up...we're the loudest folk band in the world!"-Bono

[wolfwill23]

Gonzo,
Don't you see a double-standard with the Taliban saying it's the worst thing ever when four of their people are killed after they just killed 5000 of our people?

Also, as I stated in my first post, they kill their own civilians everyday, in public executions held in a soccer field. But that's ok though, eh?

I do respect human life, however, I am upset with the American media. I am following this quite closly especially since I live 3 blocks from the WTC site and all. I would like to see major newstations take just a minute each day and briefly talk about one of the victims.

Now Gonzo, what do you think we should do about getting Bin laden and the Taliban? I would like to hear your take on this.

[80sU2isBest]

I understand what wolfwill is saying, though I would have said it differently. But people, please remember he DID start the post by saying "it's sad". I've been thinking about the loss of Afghan lives lately, and you're all right, it is very sad, and in the eyes of God, no innocent life is less important than others. The loss of human life is a horrible thing (though many people who are against this war also support abortion rights, which seems rather hypocritical to me). However, the USA was backed into a corner. We couldn't afford to NOT respond. If we had set back and done nothing, attacks similar to the WTC attacks would just keep happening. And Heaven forbid the terrorists should get their hands on a few nukes! The onlt thing that can be done at this point is to root out terrorists and try to annihalate every last one. Yes, I really feel for the innocent afghans who have lost their lives, but please remember the distinction; we are not TRYING to kill the innocents, in fact, we are taking extreme care NOT to hit them. A stray bomb here and there is sad, but is inevitable in war. And like it or not, folks, this is war. Seems to me that some of you folks don't seem to understand what war is. Innocents get killed in every war. It's not good, but it's a fact of war. Innocents were killed during WW2, but that war was COMPLETELY necessary, so we couldn't just sit back and let that stop us. It had to be done, just like this has to be done.

[bonovista]

Ah!!
I was just about to post pretty much what 80's said..
Good point...

[nintendan]

Qestion.

Putting the crime committed aside for a moment;
Is it more wrong to kill a person in a stadium with an ak47 than via lethal injection in a prison in Texas?


Death Penalty is wrong if you ask me.

[A|catura]

Hey wolfwill,

I think that your major problem is that you are probably watching that anti-US, pro-Taliban cable station CNN for your news. You need to watch Foxnews, where they tell ALL sides of the story.

CNN refuses to show how our brothers and sisters came to a horrific and violent death at the WTC, but the minute someone stubs their toe in Afghanistan we have to watch video of it over and over and over.

CNN is an insult to the victims of Sept. 11th.

-----------------------------------------

"Am I buggin' you? I didn't mean to bug ya'."

[Mirrorball Man]

What the US Government needs to do is use it's brain. Islam is a peaceful religion that has practical ways of dealing with wars. If the US actually showed that it understood the religion then it would have more support in it's war against terrorism. If the US were to fight a 'just' war on the terms of Islam then it would be a lot more effective then what they're doing now. And there wouldn't be half as much destruction as there has been. Muslim countries would 'fight' together against the terrorists. It would be brought down from within because it is against Islamic teaching. The trouble is there is so much anti-US feeling in the Middle East. But it's the US's own fault because of it's arrogance and ignorance. This war could be fort in a different way if the US actually listened and learned from other cultures.

The bombing should stop now. Nothing good will come from it, only more violence towards the US. It's pretty simple to understand.

[80sU2isBest]

Originally posted by Mirrorball Man:
The trouble is there is so much anti-US feeling in the Middle East. But it's the US's own fault because of it's arrogance and ignorance. This war could be fort in a different way if the US actually listened and learned from other cultures.
The bombing should stop now. Nothing good will come from it, only more violence towards the US. It's pretty simple to understand.

Okay, tell me what you mean by "just war"? Also, you said that Islam is a peaceful religion. While I do agree that most Muslims are peace seeking people, the Koran itself does in several places call for fighting against Jews and Christians.

[HelloAngel]

Originally posted by A|catura:
Hey wolfwill,

I think that your major problem is that you are probably watching that anti-US, pro-Taliban cable station CNN for your news. You need to watch Foxnews, where they tell ALL sides of the story.

CNN refuses to show how our brothers and sisters came to a horrific and violent death at the WTC, but the minute someone stubs their toe in Afghanistan we have to watch video of it over and over and over.

CNN is an insult to the victims of Sept. 11th.

Unless I was watching a station from outer space on 9/11 and the weeks that followed, CNN aired days and days and hours and hours of family members looking for loved ones, holding signs, giving life histories, etc - had a camera on the WTC site for days on end. I even recall watching the Towers come crashing to the ground over and over thanks to CNN. I remember seeing most on-the-scene reporters on CNN bursting into tears over sidewalk encounters with family members, and just showing days and days of coverage of the events as they happened. I can't speak for how FOXNews handled their coverage, but to say that CNN is pro-Taliban and anti-American events is ludicrous as I sit here and type listening to yet another news conference on the Anthrax case. For CNN to just continue covering all the lives lost in the WTC would be redundant as no survivors have been found in weeks, the clean-up is ongoing, and these family members cannot possibly cope in a healthy way watching CNN air endless reels of building crashing and people screaming and running covered in soot.

As for the Afghan casualties, it is important for all of us to respect human life - and not just the loss of life in our borders. Our nightmare was a month ago - and it's still fresh, and we're dealing - why would CNN need to continue covering the loss of our brothers and sisters now? There are casualties in Afghanistan because we are doing something about 9/11 - and CNN reports on it because that is happening NOW.



------------------
Here's to the few who forgive what you do
and the fewer who don't even care
--Leonard Cohen

[speedracer]

Originally posted by 80sU2isBest:
Okay, tell me what you mean by "just war"? Also, you said that Islam is a peaceful religion. While I do agree that most Muslims are peace seeking people, the Koran itself does in several places call for fighting against Jews and Christians.

Where in the Koran is fighting against Jews and Christians called for? I ask out of sincere ignorance.

[u2zed]

Originally posted by HelloAngel:
Unless I was watching a station from outer space on 9/11 and the weeks that followed <snip>

If I may respectfully add a bit of levity...

Probably most of what you were watching *did* come from outer space! Satellites!

i.e. "Babyface, babyface, you're coming to me from outer space"

------------------
you've got the right shoes to get you through the night

[Holy John]

Evidently, if it was soldiers or civilians from the United States who were being killed, than we would have to think of it all day, CNN will say "America Under Attack : Our country's Martyrs" all over the world again. Of course, Afghan civilians are not as worth as a civilian of the United States. They are more cheaper. 6 000 innocent civilians of the United States died, yes. It is bad, I agree. But who cares for, let's say... one, two, three, ten, a hundred or two hundred or I-don't-know-what-is-true-on-TV number of Afghans who died in Afghanistan. After all, they're not profitable for us. "Well, that's war... that's the sad part of it" you will tell me. How sad from the mouth of the victors...

------------------
«Je suis le dernier homme. Contre tous, je me défendrai... je ne capitulerai pas.»
"I am the last man. Against all, I will defend myself. I shall not capitulate".
" Soy el hombre pasado. Contra todos me defenderé. No capitularé. "
"Ich bin der letzte Mann. Gegen alle verteidige mich ich. Ich kapituliere nicht. "
"Sono l' ultimo uomo. Contro tutti mi difenderò. Non capitulate."

- Eugène Ionesco, "Rhinocéros"

[U2Bama]

Originally posted by Holy John:
Evidently, if it was soldiers or civilians from the United States who were being killed, than we would have to think of it all day, CNN will say "America Under Attack : Our country's Martyrs" all over the world again.

YOU'RE DOING IT AGAIN!

We have a seperation of Church & State in the U.S. and we do not consider our fallen soldiers to be "martyrs." I think you are getting us confused with extremists who claim to do such things for religious reasons.

~U2Alabama

[80sU2isBest]

Originally posted by speedracer:
Where in the Koran is fighting against Jews and Christians called for? I ask out of sincere ignorance.

Before I post this, I want to reiterate that I am not against the Muslim people. I think that most of them are probably peace-seeking people. They are all loved by God, that is for sure. Here are some passages from the Koran:

Prophet, make war on the unbelievers and the hypocrites and deal rigorously with them. Hell shall be their home: an evil fate.
Sura 9:73

Fight against such of those to whom the Scriptures were given as believe neither in Allah nor the Last Day, who do not forbid what Allah and His apostle have forbidden and do not embrace the true faith until they pay tribute out of hand and are utterly subdued.
Sura 9:29

Mohammed is Allah's apostle. Those who follow him are ruthless to the unbelievers but merciful to one another.
Sura 48:29


and yet, admittedly, in other places, it says:

Fight for the sake of Allah those that fight against you, but do not attack them first. Allah does not love the aggressors.

and

When the sacred months(*) are over them. If they repent and take to prayer and pay the alms-tax, let them go their way. Allah is forgiving and merciful.
Sura 9:4


[This message has been edited by 80sU2isBest (edited 10-15-2001).]

[whammy]

"Anchors--Away my Boy, Anchors--Away! To----our-last-night-at-shore, we sail at the brink of day-day-day-day! ........."

"Kabul, Kabul, Kabul is on fire! We-don't-need-no-water-let-the-mother......

(Freedom of Speech! It can be annoying sometimes,???) )

I GUESS I'M JUST A BRAINLESS WARMONGER!

GOD BLESS AMERICA