Should we?

[Justin24]

But if they go to a school that is predominantly latin and they only learn spanish how will that help them in a world where English is the primary language? Unless were expecting Mexico to reclaim. AZ, NM, CO,CA, OR, Wy?

and no offense to anyone from Mexico.

 

[BVS]

Well yes we are a "melting pot" and I don't mind hearing people speak other languages, but when it comes to business and you have someone who can't help you because they can't speak the language isn't that a problem?

Well now you've reversed the situation. This wasn't what you were speaking about earlier. Yes if you are in anytype of customer service in a primary English speaking area you should be able to speak English. I've never been anywhere in the US where the person I was dealing with on the other side of the counter didn't speak English. To me speaking English is advantage to anyone in this country and anyone should try and learn, not doing so is a disadvantage but it shouldn't be forced.

But how is asking them to learn the primary language racist. We not saying you can't continue to speak spanish, chinese, Korean, Italian etc..

You aren't asking you are forcing, there's a difference. Look at my post above.

 

[Mofo]

But if they go to a school that is predominantly latin and they only learn spanish how will that help them in a world where English is the primary language? Unless were expecting Mexico to reclaim. AZ, NM, CO,CA, OR, Wy?

and no offense to anyone from Mexico.

no ofense, but that is quite an idiotic statement "Unless were expecting Mexico to reclaim. AZ, NM, CO,CA, OR, Wy?" no offense;

You have to remember people who cross a desert risking everything for a better life are desperate, being paid miserably what are you going to do? pay for food and rent or english classes?

 

[Liesje]

But if they go to a school that is predominantly latin and they only learn spanish how will that help them in a world where English is the primary language? Unless were expecting Mexico to reclaim. AZ, NM, CO,CA, OR, Wy?

and no offense to anyone from Mexico.

Why do you feel like they need help? I don't think you mean this intentionally, but your posts seem to have the attitude that Hispanics are somehow less than the rest of us and can't decide for themselves what language to speak. If they can get by without English, fine! Why would you force someone to go back to school and learn a new language?

I'm sure there are many difficulties for those who only know Spanish, but I certainly don't hear them complaining and commend those families and communities for being able to save such an important part of their heritage and culture. I guess a part of me has always had so much respect for their ability to maintain that level of fluency when so many people are saying "why can't you just learn English already?". Even the little kids still speak Spanish as their first language, though they were born in the US. It's fascinating to me, since I also come from a completely homogenous community (not Hispanic) and my generation is unfortunately the first that has lost our language completely, a dialect which is no longer spoken in the areas our families originated from. It's kind of sad to realize that a large part of what makes you and your families unique is probably gone forever.

 

[Justin24]

I dont think anyone is less. I did not mean to offened anyone I am just giving examples. I am not asking anyone to lose their identity, there culture. All I ask is that now that you are living in this country for many many years and your doing well now you could take night school to learn the language. And as I stated earlier in the Show 30 days on illegal immigration the daughter was the only one who spoke english, even though her parents had lived in the US for over 12 years.

 

[Liesje]

I dont think anyone is less. I did not mean to offened anyone I am just giving examples. I am not asking anyone to lose their identity, there culture. All I ask is that now that you are living in this country for many many years and your doing well now you could take night school to learn the language. And as I stated earlier in the Show 30 days on illegal immigration the daughter was the only one who spoke english, even though her parents had lived in the US for over 12 years.

OK, but you're still never answering this question - WHY do you feel others should be required to learn another language?

Just think of the basic precedent here, try to ignore the factors like America, Hispanics, Spanish - think in the broadest of terms of any group, anywhere and answer me, why is it so important to you that people be required to assimilate linguistically?

 

[Macfistowannabe]

Should we have to spend our tax money for signs in different languages to accomidate when in many latin american countries and other countries they dont?

We should do the opposite - expect immigrants to be able to speak a fair amount of English, but continue to provide special assistance in schools and other outlets for those who have struggled with it.

I admire anyone who can wait in line for as long as the system requires, to go through exhaustive testing, both physically and mentally, and learn another language. As long as they have a clean criminal history and no contagious diseases, I welcome them aboard.

In contrast, I think it's wrong to cut in line and cross the border without a passport, and impose Babelism (hence, multi-lingualism) on a society that has established a national language. If we were to accept Babelism, it would greatly slow the education process, requiring that we learn to speak many languages fluently, resulting in a stunt of human progress in technology and production.

 

[Macfistowannabe]

I may not see signs, but I hear we have enough spicks in this country or they are trying to take over ALL THE TIME.

I'm just saying don't you find it just a little bit interesting that so many other countries function under different languages, yet our country, the country that is supposibly the melting pot makes it a political point? You don't see a hint of hypocricy or racism?

Hypocrisy and racism?

Either you're confusing cultural integration with racism, or you're playing the race card under an abstract hallucination - "McCarthyism" at its finest.

 

[Justin24]

OK, but you're still never answering this question - WHY do you feel others should be required to learn another language?

Just think of the basic precedent here, try to ignore the factors like America, Hispanics, Spanish - think in the broadest of terms of any group, anywhere and answer me, why is it so important to you that people be required to assimilate linguistically?

It's important for them to assimilate Linguistically to make it easier on people who don't speak the language and it does not matter if your hispanic, Asian, etc.. I am not saying they fully have to americanize themself. I am happy to see them keep their culture.

As for your first question. Fine they don't learn to speak english, then the US become a hispanic Majority so wouldn't that mean people would be required to learn hispanic, same goes if it became an asian majority etc...

 

[Liesje]

It's important for them to assimilate Linguistically to make it easier on people who don't speak the language and it does not matter if your hispanic, Asian, etc.. I am not saying they fully have to americanize themself. I am happy to see them keep their culture.

You still haven't answered the question of WHY.

YOU may think it's important, but I certainly don't. So WHY do you think it's important? Do you not realize that language is probably the biggest part of ANY culture? In fact, language itself can often shape culture (not always the other way around). It's not something to consider lightly.

 

[Justin24]

I have answered Why it's important. And I have stated twice that they do not have to lose there language. They can be multi linguale in both Chinese and english, spanish and english. But if they come here and only speak spanish and thats it how will that help them in the long run. It's important to know a second language dont you think?

 

[Justin24]

Don't you think it's a disservice to a non-english speak to be working the shitty jobs and only speaking one language here in the US? If a person comes up to him is he supposed to have a translator by him at all times? Whats wrong with learning a new language while keeping your primary tounge??

English is my first language. I speak spanish, not as good. I used to be real good, but I have lost alot of it. So I have been speaking to my mom in spanish when I can to bring it back.

 

[Macfistowannabe]

You still haven't answered the question of WHY.

YOU may think it's important, but I certainly don't. So WHY do you think it's important? Do you not realize that language is probably the biggest part of ANY culture? In fact, language itself can often shape culture (not always the other way around). It's not something to consider lightly.

And how many languages are you willing to learn in order to conversate in your own country?

 

[Liesje]

And how many languages are you willing to learn in order to conversate in your own country?

Apples and oranges.

I'm from an upper-middle class family and I've always known English, so I can't in any way relate to the situation of most Hispanics. Fortunately for me, studying another language is a luxury, not a burden. There's a difference between opportunities and requirements.

 

[Justin24]

I encourage you to learn other languages. I took german but failed at. that.

 

[Macfistowannabe]

Apples and oranges.

How so?

It's your country.

I'm from an upper-middle class family and I've always known English, so I can't in any way relate to the situation of most Hispanics.

That's why we learn Spanish when we go to Spanish-speaking countries.
And that's why they should learn English when they go to English-speaking countries.

Fortunately for me, studying another language is a luxury, not a burden. There's a difference between opportunities and requirements.

It should continue to be a luxury that opens doors for you to communicate in a different tongue to new people, rather than a burden to learn other languages, in the event that your government builds their own Tower of Babel.

 

[adrball]

Justin... Are you really suggesting that the US does not have secure borders? Short of putting personel on every inch of border and coastline, you will always have people that will take a chance (often chancing their lives) at crossing in to give them an opportunity not afforded to them in their homeland. But entering the US via its ports is not a formality. For those of us that have had the pain of applying for a visa, or have arrived at port only to find being re-boarded straight away onto a return without explanation, you will not increase security of borders without totally alienating foreign business travellers and tourists.

But I do agree with your frustrations with illegal immigrants. The US is a multicultural melting-pot, largely (if my memory of History lessons from school is correct) due to the immigration of the last couple of hundred years. It most recently reflects economic success and values that many believe in. But illegal and uncontrolled legal immigration create strain on public services (we see this in pockets in the UK). These people cannot gain access to these services and opportunities and expect everyone else to share their burden. They at least need to demonstrate that they bring with them some value to society. Just bringing themselves without even an understanding of the language is just draining on resources.

What you say about low-cost workers and the impact on jobs is interesting. I'm going on gut-feel here, but I'd be pretty sure that the impact of US companies outsourcing activities to India, China, Mexico and the like has had a much larger impact on the jobs market. Additionally if you relied on fewer imports there would be a much larger demand for labour (sorry, labor). You'd then be clamouring for cheap labour to become available. Actually, there's a really fine balance between importing labour (controlled and illegal) and providing opportunities to them in their own country (importing goods). The equilibrium can only be achieved with equal global trade rules. Until then there will always people that 'follow the bright light'

Strongly agree with you on language. English has always been the language of choice in America for as long as I can remember. It's unreconcilable that someone who wants to be a member of US society does not have the desire to put in the effort to learn it. Ability the read and (to a lesser extent) write is an absolute minimum entry requirement. In my view nobody should be gained permenant entry to the US without being able to speak English, or for those currently in the country, access to public services should be resticted until they can. Business should not be allowed to employ until that point and anyone that does should be severely fined without exception. Multi-lingual notices should be banned in all areas except for points of entry and major tourists areas - it would show that visitors are welcomed.

 

[Macfistowannabe]

Strongly agree with you on language. English has always been the language of choice in America for as long as I can remember. It's unreconcilable that someone who wants to be a member of US society does not have the desire to put in the effort to learn it. Ability the read and (to a lesser extent) write is an absolute minimum entry requirement. In my view nobody should be gained permenant entry to the US without being able to speak English, or for those currently in the country, access to public services should be resticted until they can. Business should not be allowed to employ until that point and anyone that does should be severely fined without exception. Multi-lingual notices should be banned in all areas except for points of entry and major tourists areas - it would show that visitors are welcomed.

 

[Liesje]

I encourage you to learn other languages. I took german but failed at. that.

I have learned other languages. Like I said, how many languages you and I speak is not comparable, because we have money and privilege. Learning languages in school has been a luxury for many of us who post here. Most of us can't relate to the situations we're trying to enforce on another ethnic group.

I'm not saying people should only speak one language. I'm saying we shouldn't force people to speak OUR language simply because WE feel it's more appropriate or more adventageous for them.

 

[Macfistowannabe]

Most of us can't relate to the situations we're trying to enforce on another ethnic group.

Ethnicity and language are not the same thing.

I'm not saying people should only speak one language. I'm saying we shouldn't force people to speak OUR language simply because WE feel it's more appropriate or more adventageous for them.

It's more advantageous for a society as a whole to speak one language.

 

[BVS]

Hypocrisy and racism?

Either you're confusing cultural integration with racism, or you're playing the race card under an abstract hallucination - "McCarthyism" at its finest.

LOL, you obviously don't understand what McCarthyism was.

Cultural integration isn't inviting people from other countries and cultures and then forcing them to give up their culture from day one. You don't teach people to swim by having them dive into the deep end.

 

[Liesje]

It's more advantageous for a society as a whole to speak one language.

Really? I've had to study a lot of intercultural communication and socio-linguistics and I've never come across this claim. I think it's advantageous for society as a whole to be able to integrate and communicate with one another, but I don't think that translates into "everyone is forced to learn English."

If everyone should speak the same primary language, it would make MORE sense for English speakers to learn Spanish, since in my experience the people insisting on a single national language are usually the ones with the time/money/resources to be able to study another language.

Honestly, I can't understand why anyone would want to establish roots in a country and not ever want to learn the language, but that doesn't mean I advocate forcing/legislating that they do. I plan to move abroad and study the new language first, but if someone were to approach me and say my visa depended on my comprehension of their language, I'd be quite put off.

 

[BVS]

As for your first question. Fine they don't learn to speak english, then the US become a hispanic Majority so wouldn't that mean people would be required to learn hispanic, same goes if it became an asian majority etc...

So this is your fear? You can't see the hint of racism in that?

 

[Justin24]

I have no fear of that. I don't see any hint of Racism, can you point it out and explain.

 

[BVS]

I have no fear of that. I don't see any hint of Racism, can you point it out and explain.

Why would you even bring it up then, if you didn't think that would happen?

 

[Macfistowannabe]

LOL, you obviously don't understand what McCarthyism was.

Mc·Car·thy·ism (mə-kär'thē-ĭz'əm)
n.
The practice of publicizing accusations of political disloyalty or subversion with insufficient regard to evidence.
The use of unfair investigatory or accusatory methods in order to suppress opposition.

Cultural integration isn't inviting people from other countries and cultures and then forcing them to give up their culture from day one. You don't teach people to swim by having them dive into the deep end.

They aren't being forced to give up their culture. They are being asked the ability to communicate outside of their native tongue. You don't have to put your cultural roots aside in order to speak English, anymore than I would have to put my American roots aside in order to speak Spanish.

 

[adrball]

Honestly, I can't understand why anyone would want to establish roots in a country and not ever want to learn the language, but that doesn't mean I advocate forcing/legislating that they do. I plan to move abroad and study the new language first, but if someone were to approach me and say my visa depended on my comprehension of their language, I'd be quite put off.

You are a fine example and if everyone followed your lead then it wouldn't require legislation. But US citizens that I have worked with in the UK believe that the US is littered with people who are simply on the 'take'

 

[BVS]

Mc·Car·thy·ism (mə-kär'thē-ĭz'əm)
n.
The practice of publicizing accusations of political disloyalty or subversion with insufficient regard to evidence.
The use of unfair investigatory or accusatory methods in order to suppress opposition.

Yes, I know this, but it doesn't apply to anything I was talking about...

They aren't being forced to give up their culture. They are being asked the ability to communicate outside of their native tongue. You don't have to put your cultural roots aside in order to speak English, anymore than I would have to put my American roots aside in order to speak Spanish.

Look like I've said before, not learning English is a disadvantage to those who move here. But it's their choice. That's all I'm saying. We live in a country built on immigrants coming from different languages, a pretty unique background compared to most countries. Yet why are we the only ones that get pissed off when there's multilingual signage?

 

[Justin24]

BVS can you please answer my other questions from the first page.

 

[Macfistowannabe]

Really? I've had to study a lot of intercultural communication and socio-linguistics and I've never come across this claim. I think it's advantageous for society as a whole to be able to integrate and communicate with one another, but I don't think that translates into "everyone is forced to learn English."

They should have a basic understanding of the English language to aquire permanant citizenship, as you know they will need to communicate with the rest of us if they want a career. There is no vice in establishing a national language. Take a look at the multi-lingual societies - how are they superior in technology and economically then a unilingual country?

If everyone should speak the same primary language, it would make MORE sense for English speakers to learn Spanish, since in my experience the people insisting on a single national language are usually the ones with the time/money/resources to be able to study another language.

You are telling 300,000,000 people to abandon their tongue in order to appease a far lower number of those who impose their native tongue on a society they don't legally reside in.

HOW DOES YOUR ARGUMENT MAKE ANY SENSE?

Honestly, I can't understand why anyone would want to establish roots in a country and not ever want to learn the language, but that doesn't mean I advocate forcing/legislating that they do. I plan to move abroad and study the new language first, but if someone were to approach me and say my visa depended on my comprehension of their language, I'd be quite put off.

As you said earlier, it should be a luxury to learn another language, not a hassle. That contradicts your argument for Babelism in its entirety.