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Old 12-27-2003, 11:41 AM   #1
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Should Osama Be Innocent Until Proven Guilty?

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Old 12-27-2003, 12:26 PM   #2
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osama has made clear in numerous statements that he considers america his enemy, so we should inturn consider him ours. the proof of his involvement in 9/11 is overwellming... shoot him on sight.
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Old 12-27-2003, 12:36 PM   #3
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The evidence is against him, for a man that has plenty of videos and audio tapes released in his name.

And Osama, if possible, should be arrested in the same manner as Saddam Hussein. The reason for that is that being arrested is considered a humiliating end, versus being killed or committing suicide.

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Old 12-27-2003, 01:45 PM   #4
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Hello,

I think that the best way indeed would be to consider Osama innocent until proven guilty. However, I don't think it would be very difficult to prove the guilt,.Showing all the evidence to the whole world would then be another reminder what kind of low-life scum he is. By immediately judging/killing him you won't give out a clear signal of the strength of the justice system/democracy. Instead it would be interpreted as a sign that when the US doesn't like something, it just kills. Nevertheless, there'll always be people who won't believe anything regarding anti-Osama and pro-US, but that does not mean you can just disregard the values you cherish.

C ya!

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Old 12-27-2003, 02:11 PM   #5
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apparently howard dean feels osama should be considered innocent until proven guilty and should not be sentenced to death...


bang bang... there's another shot to the foot for the dean campaign...
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Old 12-27-2003, 02:31 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally posted by Headache in a Suitcase
apparently howard dean feels osama should be considered innocent until proven guilty and should not be sentenced to death...


bang bang... there's another shot to the foot for the dean campaign...


Tim McVeigh was considered innocent until proven guilty, Malvo, etc. ,...

I could go on and on with a list of heinous murderers, I think you get the point.

Yes, I would prefer a President that supported the "Rule of Law" and not one that throws our Constitution and other international justice protocols out the window when it suits him.

This is what Saddam did, and Stalin and all the tyrants that we have always condemned.
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Old 12-27-2003, 02:50 PM   #7
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So a Bush-supporter doesn't like Dean.

Oh the surprises! The HORROR!

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Old 12-27-2003, 03:16 PM   #8
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This is a toughie. In practice everyone should be innocent until proven guilty. However, Osama has chosen to implicate himself in innumerable crimes and atrocities. It wouldn't be difficult to prove that he'd committed the crimes. He should get the same kind of treatment that Milosevic is getting right now. Bust the guy for crimes against humanity, and yes, his guilt will have to be proven. But he'll prove himself a criminal just as Milosevic has.
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Old 12-27-2003, 04:46 PM   #9
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Why is this about Bush all of a sudden????

wow...ask a simple question and we are preaching about Rule of Law...
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Old 12-27-2003, 05:28 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dreadsox
Why is this about Bush all of a sudden????

wow...ask a simple question and we are preaching about Rule of Law...
When you believe in justice for all, he is inocent until proven guilty. But i guess there is enough evidence against Osama.
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Old 12-27-2003, 07:14 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally posted by deep




Tim McVeigh was considered innocent until proven guilty, Malvo, etc. ,...

I could go on and on with a list of heinous murderers, I think you get the point.

Yes, I would prefer a President that supported the "Rule of Law" and not one that throws our Constitution and other international justice protocols out the window when it suits him.

This is what Saddam did, and Stalin and all the tyrants that we have always condemned.
mcveigh and malvo were american citizens. osama is an enemy combatent. he and his organization have declared war on america. there in lies a major difference.

and yes melon... i support bush. he wasn't my first choice in 2000... he was actually my thrid, behind mccain and bradley, but seeing as neither won their respective party's nomination, i put my support behind bush.

as for dean, i have serious fuing problems with his comments regarding 9/11... thus where my severe dislike for him comes from, not because he's a dem, not because he's the likely opponent of bush the way things are going.
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Old 12-27-2003, 08:38 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally posted by Headache in a Suitcase


mcveigh and malvo were american citizens. osama is an enemy combatent. he and his organization have declared war on america. there in lies a major difference.
True. You could implicate him for crimes in several countries, not just one. Bust the guy and try him as a war criminal. You don't bust Common Criminal X as a war criminal. They haven't partied over 9/11. I don't really think this has anything to do with Bush. The issue came up because Dean stuck his foot in his mouth.
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Old 12-27-2003, 09:40 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally posted by Popmartijn
By immediately judging/killing him you won't give out a clear signal of the strength of the justice system/democracy. Instead it would be interpreted as a sign that when the US doesn't like something, it just kills.
Nicely put.

If we do capture him, I say we throw him in jail for the rest of his life instead of put him to death. Let's see how tough he feels when he's with some of the other hardened criminals.

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Old 12-27-2003, 10:34 PM   #14
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Innocent until proven guilty does NOT work for Osama, he's not your typical arrested armed robber
So this question is not valid.
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Old 12-27-2003, 11:49 PM   #15
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i see no similarity between osama and saddam or osama and milosevic
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Old 12-28-2003, 04:31 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dreadsox
Why is this about Bush all of a sudden????

wow...ask a simple question and we are preaching about Rule of Law...
Well, don't you think that a discussion of whether someone is innocent until proven guilty or not has anything to do with the rule of law?

And it wasn't all about Bush - one poster made a comment about how he would hope the President would act in the situation, but other than that nobody talked about Bush.
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Old 12-28-2003, 04:37 AM   #17
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Originally posted by AcrobatMan
i see no similarity between osama and saddam or osama and milosevic
I see why people are comparing them, but I agree with you AcrobatMan. Saddam and Milosevic were leaders who committed horrible crimes against the people of the countries they ruled. There's a good case for Saddam receiving the same treatment as Milosevic did when captured. However, Osama bin Laden is in no way similar - he's not leader of a country, he's head of a group which has committed acts of terrorism against the citizens of several countries. You can't compare the crimes of Milosevic or Saddam with the crimes of Al Qaeda.
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Old 12-28-2003, 06:10 AM   #18
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It's this kind of situation where I really like more and more Ant's idea of hard labour. Sticking someone in a cell for the rest of their lives achieves absolutely nothing for too many people for it to be any kind of punishment or justice. I really doubt Osama would be quaking in his boots being stuck next to Joe Schmoe who robbed a 7-11 and shot 3 clerks as a result. While Marty's point about a trial being a fair display of the beauty of democracy, the justice system is one which is so flawed that it is not a commendable system for individuals like Bin Laden. You cant look someone like him square in the eye and say "You commandeered 4 planes killing 3000 plus in the process, as well as countless other acts. Therefore buddy, we are putting you in jail. How do ya like them apples!"
It's hopelessly insufficient.
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Old 12-28-2003, 06:30 AM   #19
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Originally posted by FizzingWhizzbees


Well, don't you think that a discussion of whether someone is innocent until proven guilty or not has anything to do with the rule of law?

And it wasn't all about Bush - one poster made a comment about how he would hope the President would act in the situation, but other than that nobody talked about Bush.
Beg to differ....that was a direct slam at Bush...but you can think otherwise...
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Old 12-28-2003, 06:32 AM   #20
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I wish there were some kind of VR machine....one that got into their mind....places him in a window of the trade tower....looking at the plane coming at him....day in ....day out....slow motion.....
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