Should New Zealand join Australia?

[thatsnotmypuppy]

A few workmates have been discussing the once proposed 'Pacific Dollar' idea our moronic Prime Minister floated at a regional meeting recently. This bought up a better topic - that NZ maybe should join Australia - as external federated territories. Australia has two territiories - the ACT and NT- which have greater autonomy. Maybe this could work for NZ? I know every Kiwi on here will be aghast at the idea, but from an economic point of view it could work.

Apparently the Aussie constitution even mentions a combined country - but I cant be bothered looking that up.

So - any thoughts? Maybe a cxomparison would be Canada joining the USA?

 

[Ormus]

National unions are increasingly unnecessary in that the nation-state, itself, is already a dying relic of the Middle Ages. Australia and New Zealand could, more realistically, engage in a liberal free trade arrangement, allowing for free movement of labor and economic investment, not all that different from the European Union, while still preserving their current national and cultural autonomy.

 

[indra]

Would a citizen of a combined Australia/New Zealand be called an Aussiwi?

 

[deep]

So - any thoughts? Maybe a cxomparison would be Canada joining the USA?

we already got NAFTA
North American Free Trade Agreement

 

[Earnie Shavers]

That's the sort of thing they're actually talking about. That and a common currency, like the Euro. It would take in Australia, NZ and a bunch of small Pacific Island nations that Australia and NZ completely bankroll anyway. Also some 'talk' of a merged defence force. I doubt too much if any of it will ever happen (beyond a NAFTA type agreement), but it's certainly got nothing to do with NZ and Australia joining as one nation.

 

[timothius]

I'm pretty sure NZ still has a standing invitation from Australia which merely requires a "yes" vote in a referendum in NZ to make it a state. Of course the mere mention of a referendum (or even a merged currency - given NZ just introduced new coinage last year) would be political suicide.

There is more than talk of our defenses merging - as far as I know NZ has no air force and is taken care of by Australia.

 

[anitram]

Re: Re: Should New Zealand join Australia?

we already got NAFTA
North American Free Trade Agreement

Which pretty much only benefits the US. Mulroney should be beaten for some of the provisions he agreed to. Like all the ones regarding oil.

 

[Axver]

I'm pretty sure NZ still has a standing invitation from Australia which merely requires a "yes" vote in a referendum in NZ to make it a state. Of course the mere mention of a referendum (or even a merged currency - given NZ just introduced new coinage last year) would be political suicide.

This is correct. We can join Australia any time we like. There's just no real point because all the benefits we could get could be achieved through bilateral agreements and the like that do not compromise our sovereignty ... or the ability of the All Blacks to be a national team, and we all know that's what really matters.

There is more than talk of our defenses merging - as far as I know NZ has no air force and is taken care of by Australia.

Not quite true: we have an air force, but it no longer has combat capabilities.

I'm not sure how I'd feel about a defence forces merger. Given Australia's relatively more aggressive stance, it would likely compromise our pacific culture and I'm against any move that would do that. A mutual assistance agreement for times of need (which we already have via ANZUS, if I'm not grossly mistaken) strikes me as perfectly satisfactory.

I would also be in favour of a monetary union. I mean, come on, before NZ's 2006 currency changes, you could use Aussie or Kiwi 5, 10, and 20 cent pieces in both countries. I think a currency union would make a lot of sense - plus it would make life a lot easier.

 

[blueeyedgirl]

There's just no real point because all the benefits we could get could be achieved through bilateral agreements and the like that do not compromise our sovereignty

Ah the ol' Kiwis on the dole thing (or Austudy )

There's no real need for a merger, anything from NZ that's vaguely good, we claim for our own anyway, like the Finn Brothers, or Russell Crowe, who we disown when he's crap....

 

[Axver]

Ah the ol' Kiwis on the dole thing (or Austudy )

Why should the Australians get all their tax dollars when it can go to their betters from the right side of the Tasman?

 

[Angela Harlem]

I suppose a merger would help economically for NZ and the 11 cents their dollar is weaker by, or whatever it is. Socially, it would be suicide for NZ. They're like The Netherlands or Canada - one of the last bastions of liberal freedom. We're so much like the US, and increasingly so as time moves on, it hurts. I'd hate to see anyone become like us... except the US, who (no offence) need all the help it can get in terms of living a definition of freedom.

 

[Trinity3000]

I suppose a merger would help economically for NZ and the 11 cents their dollar is weaker by, or whatever it is. Socially, it would be suicide for NZ. They're like The Netherlands or Canada - one of the last bastions of liberal freedom. We're so much like the US, and increasingly so as time moves on, it hurts. I'd hate to see anyone become like us... except the US, who (no offence) need all the help it can get in terms of living a definition of freedom.

Wow thats the coolest thing ever from an Aussie. Good on you.

 

[Slipstream]

These union ideas mostly seem to come from Australians or Americans. Canucks and Kiwis are not too keen.

 

[Trinity3000]

I can assure you we are not keen at all!

 

[Angela Harlem]

Wow thats the coolest thing ever from an Aussie. Good on you.

Dude, you guys should be a role model for others. There's things to criticise, and things not everyone will agree with, but overall NZ does a great job of it. A lot of us here like more than just the people there.

Thanks though

 

[Ormus]

I'd visit New Zealand in a minute if it didn't cost thousands of dollars to fly there!

If I win the lottery someday, though, it'll be on top of my travel itinerary.

 

[anitram]

melon, the prices aren't necessarily too bad. I looked at flying to Australia in August (out of curiosity) and found flights on Air New Zealand from Toronto-LAX-Brisbane for $1160 Cdn, all inclusive. It's a good airline for flying to Australia or New Zealand and you can sometimes find very good deals (like $1500 Cdn or so).

 

[Ormus]

melon, the prices aren't necessarily too bad. I looked at flying to Australia in August (out of curiosity) and found flights on Air New Zealand from Toronto-LAX-Brisbane for $1160 Cdn, all inclusive. It's a good airline for flying to Australia or New Zealand and you can sometimes find very good deals (like $1500 Cdn or so).

I'll have to keep that in mind. Although I haven't checked all that closely or all that often, it always seemed like it cost around USD $7,000 each time!

 

[Irvine511]

I'll have to keep that in mind. Although I haven't checked all that closely or all that often, it always seemed like it cost around USD $7,000 each time!

you can definietly do better than that.

it's on my fantasy destinations too -- along with South Africa, Bhutan, and the Maldives -- and i've seen stuff even on expedia for under US $1500.

and if you're under 26 (or maybe 28) check out STA Travel for some fantastic deals.

 

[Earnie Shavers]

Try living down here! Aside from SE Asia, EVERYWHERE costs at least AUS$1000. L.A is around $13-1600, NY is about $16-1800. London is anywhere between $2-2500.

I think I've spent a good $10K heading to the Northern Hemisphere in the 00's.

Suck it up and get down here!

 

[Irvine511]

Suck it up and get down here!

i often dream about it.

it seems like a great, big, open, starry, sun-kissed, ocean-lapped, often carefree country with friendly locals and curious, cuddly animals.

yes, i know that's what the Australian Tourism wants me to believe, especially when it's grey and horrible here in February, but i do lap up the images.

as for the crurrency thing ... gosh, i dont know.

as for the comparisons between USA/Canada and Australia/NZ, i think there's something to be said when one country only really has to worry about itself, and the "big brother" has others to worry about.

not to justify, in any way, the disaster of the past 7 years in the US.

but, really, can anyone say that Canada/NZ have the same obligations/interests that the US/Australia do?

it's just apples to oranges, that's all. and perhaps one is simply lucky to be born into the "kid brother" country.

but everyone i've meet from that region of the world have been generally exemplary human beings. so, good on all of you.

yes, i've been drinking tonight.

 

[Angela Harlem]

Try living down here! Aside from SE Asia, EVERYWHERE costs at least AUS$1000. L.A is around $13-1600, NY is about $16-1800. London is anywhere between $2-2500.

I think I've spent a good $10K heading to the Northern Hemisphere in the 00's.

Suck it up and get down here!

I got flights to London for $1400 last year. Then 99p flights on the budget airlines for London to Dublin, then Dublin to Manchester.


www.zuji.com.au

 

[Trinity3000]

Hey Aussies check this out!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=owHE-HF4rk4

 

[The Sad Punk]

I suppose a merger would help economically for NZ and the 11 cents their dollar is weaker by, or whatever it is. Socially, it would be suicide for NZ. They're like The Netherlands or Canada - one of the last bastions of liberal freedom. We're so much like the US, and increasingly so as time moves on, it hurts. I'd hate to see anyone become like us... except the US, who (no offence) need all the help it can get in terms of living a definition of freedom.

I agree on all fronts... however I'm wondering - how many people internationally view us as something of a mini-US? Most of this reaction seems to come from Australians themselves, New Zealanders too, I'd assume. But is the general perception of Australia outside of Oceania still the supposedly peaceful, sunny and free island that our tourism ads promote?

 

[LJT]

Is anywhere anything like what the tourist ads promote?

According to Belfast's tourism adverts we have trapeze artists everywhere

 

[Irvine511]

I agree on all fronts... however I'm wondering - how many people internationally view us as something of a mini-US? Most of this reaction seems to come from Australians themselves, New Zealanders too, I'd assume. But is the general perception of Australia outside of Oceania still the supposedly peaceful, sunny and free island that our tourism ads promote?

culturally, i'm told that the US and Australia are closer than even the US and the UK -- and a bunch of drunk Aussies in a pub in Scotland told me so, therefore it must be true -- and, yes, the Australian tourist advertising we get in the US depicts a great big colorful country of beaches, sea life, koalas, kangaroos, etc. and Sydney seems some ultra-modern urbanist paradise on a gorgeous harbor. sure, the Crocodile Dundee/Hunter image lingers, but most of that is received warmly (despite its obvious patronization).

delving slightly deeper than that, the broad stereotypes i've heard are that Aussies are, in general, much more laid back than your average north american or western european. you're not as culturally rigid as a european nor as work-obsessed as a north american. i've heard it said that much of this take-it-as-it-comes attitude is due to the environment -- you could be walking down the street one day and then, boom, a spider bites you and you die. so why worry so much?

them's some stereotypes for you, mostly good one.

 

[Slipstream]

From my experience I find Aussies have definitely more in common with Canadians than Americans.

There is a certain sensibility that us Commonwealth countries share that no matter what, can be quite alien to Americans. We really feel like we're family, even if we don't get along sometimes(sporting events). But when it comes down to it our shared history, traditions, same governmental systems, institutions, regimental ties, and if you like it or not, shared Monarch, surely outweigh any comparison between the US and any one Commonwealth Realm.

Perhaps from their view some Aussies think they are perceived as being more American, but I think they're wrong.