Sen Boxer official signs the challange to contest the Ohio vote

[diamond]

there was no nobility in Boxer's grandstanding today.

db9

 

[deep]

so you wouldn't care if you had been prevented from voting by 8 hour lines or whatever diamond, or if your vote wasn't counted?

Well,

Would you as a single parent wait in line 8 hours?

Where is your empathy?

Who would pick up your kids after school?

I guess there is a guy in van with some candy
waiting to give them a ride

You would wait 8 hours? Right?

 

[Flying FuManchu]

I believe the cause is good as long as we can either overturn the election or undermine the Bush presidency. Viva La Blue!

 

[nbcrusader]

She really nailed this one. I hope the Academy will recognize her performance.

 

[strannix]

Kerry rebuffs protest of Ohio electors

Uh, that's really a very mild rebuff. He just says he's not taking part, and that lawyers have told him it won't change the outcome. Which of course we already knew anyway.

I didn't see anything in that article where he objects to it in principal, or indicates that the complaints are unfounded.

 

[strannix]

i was going through the posts so fast in the mid-afternoon that while i knew immedately what you were talking about re: the 'poll tax", and in my head I was thinking....'no, basicaly voting IS a right...'- The Voting Privilages Act went right past me till now, when i have a bit more time to be here and read the posts...

for the snarky 'joke', stran, very good.....` :snicker:

I'll be here all week ....

 

[diamond]

so you wouldn't care if you had been prevented from voting by 8 hour lines or whatever diamond, or if your vote wasn't counted?

Well,

Would you as a single parent wait in line 8 hours?

Where is your empathy?

Who would pick up your kids after school?

I guess there is a guy in van with some candy
waiting to give them a ride

You would wait 8 hours? Right?

statements and questions like that make you appear odd and unstable.

as a parent i would have did a number of things to teach my children(if i had to) their civic responsibility and and what a privilige it is to vote.

i would of made arrangements for them to join me in line, if i had to, even if it took 8 hours.

it's that simple.

peace-

db9

 

[namkcuR]

Oh, the drama.

Why did Boxer wait 10 weeks to make her 2-hour grandstand.


And if you are really physically sick, maybe Elvis should place appropriate warnings on the site.

Not physically sick, but disgusted nontheless. The behavior of yourself and other conservatives concerning this issue is childish and to be looked down upon. It is important that everyone is completely sure that the election process was done correctly, withoutout any outside tampering, and that we can still carry out our own elections without worrying every time that it's gonna be like 2000 and 2004. This isn't about Kerry vs. Bush. Like I said before, this is about the fact that I find it very hard to believe that an international community who already pretty much hates what we're doing in Iraq, is going to do anything but pull away more if we can't even carry out our own elections in our own country. We cannot claim to have credibility in administiring nation elections in other countries if half of our own country won't even recognize that there are errors and strange activity going in our own elections.

As for why she waited 10 weeks...in all fairness, congress was out of session for half of that.

 

[Macfistowannabe]

ok even i have moved on. they need to move on too. there are other battles to be fought.

I can respect you and your differences with me, it's nice to see that you've moved on. I too think that we should concentrate on finding solutions that will do us good instead - like promoting funding for the tsunami victims.

 

[diamond]

She really nailed this one. I hope the Academy will recognize her performance.

i do think some are auditioning for 'Give Me Another Hamburger Michael' Moore's next movie.


db9

 

[namkcuR]

statements and questions like that make you appear odd and unstable.

Odd and unstable? For crying out loud, open your mind just a little bit. Those questions were perfectly legitimate. There are reasons why people can't afford to spend 8 hours in line to vote, whether you want to recognize that or not.

 

[diamond]

I'll be here all week ....

my point is with rights there are responsibilities, one can forfeit a lot of their rights by their conduct.



db9

 

[strannix]

statements and questions like that make you appear odd and unstable.

as a parent i would have did a number of things to teach my children(if i had to) their civic responsibility and and what a privilige it is to vote.

i would of made arrangements for them to join me in line, if i had to, even if it took 8 hours.

it's that simple.

peace-

db9

Good for you. It's nice to know you take this responsibility so seriously. So did, I would mention, many, many folks in largely Democratic precincts in Ohio. Not in Republican-leaning precincts, oddly enough....

But, with all due respect to deep, that's not really the question that needs to be asked. The question is, should it take 8 hours to vote? It stands to reason that if it should, everyone should have to stand in line 8 hours. Is that a reasonable solution to you? I doubt it is to the overwhelming majority of folks.

If it shouldn't take 8 hours, then we need to investigate why it happened in these precincts. This is exactly what the EC protest was about - nothing more.

 

[strannix]

my point is with rights there are responsibilities, one can forfeit a lot of their rights by their conduct.



db9

That's an odd point to make, as it is a) completely obvious, and b) completely irrelevant, unless you're arguing that people had to spend 8 hours in line because they forfeited their right to vote.

 

[Macfistowannabe]

This is a little off-topic, but I believe California has a law that enforces a five minute voting rule.

 

[diamond]

That's an odd point to make, as it is a) completely obvious, and b) completely irrelevant, unless you're arguing that people had to spend 8 hours in line because they forfeited their right to vote.

the point of that post was to clarify your parsing of the words
"privilege" and "right" in this thread.

db9

 

[diamond]

Odd and unstable? For crying out loud, open your mind just a little bit. Those questions were perfectly legitimate. There are reasons why people can't afford to spend 8 hours in line to vote, whether you want to recognize that or not.

namkcuR-

Statements like these:

Who would pick up your kids after school?
I guess there is a guy in van with some candy

would be considered odd by most.

db9

 

[namkcuR]

The point of that statement is that some parents can't spend all day in line to vote because they have things to do, such as picking up their children, and if they were to stay in line and NOT pick up their children, then what? What if there were some sick pedaphile in a van with candy? What if that sicko managed to lure someone's unsuspecting, innocent kids because someone opted to stay in line to vote? That's the point.

 

[diamond]

NamkcuR-

the larger point is that my kids are deep's neices.
most ppl know that mr deep and I are brothers.
perhaps you didn't.

by any stretch most would consider it an odd statement, regardless of our relationship.

that's all.

peace
out

db9

 

[namkcuR]

NamkcuR-

the larger point is that my kids are deep's neices.
most ppl know that mr deep and I are brothers.
perhaps you didn't.

by any stretch most would consider it an odd statement, regardless of our relationship.

that's all.

peace
out

db9

I did not know that. Maybe a little strange then.

 

[strannix]

the point of that post was to clarify your parsing of the words
"privilige" and "right" in this thread.

db9

???

I'm sorry diamond, but I don't think you even know what you're saying at this point.

 

[diamond]

Ah yes, I think I remember this explained in the Voting Privileges Act of 1965.

Gosh, and to think, people complain about liberals being elitist. I can hardly think of anything "enlightened" about that statement, as all it does is justify pretty much any disenfranchisement I can think of.

Poll taxes, anyone?

perhaps this will refresh your memory?

db9

 

[strannix]

perhaps this will refresh your memory?

db9

Look, I'll spell this out.

MrsSpringsteen asks if you want to wait 8 hours to vote. You respond by saying voting is a right not a privilege. You later clarify by saying that what you meant is that people can have rights revoked due to their behavior.

It's clear that you're arguing, whether you realize it or not, that the folks who had to wait 8 hours had to do so because their right had been compromised because of their behavior. I don't understand that argument.

Perhaps this isn't what you meant, but it's quite clearly what you said. Hence my assertion that you don't know what you're saying.

 

[nbcrusader]

Odd and unstable? For crying out loud, open your mind just a little bit. Those questions were perfectly legitimate. There are reasons why people can't afford to spend 8 hours in line to vote, whether you want to recognize that or not.

All we have are repeated anecdotal tales of 8-hour waits, and a few race cards tossed in as well.

With the number of lawyers the DNC had floating around, if there was validity to any of this, appropriate legal action would have been taken. It wasn't.

 

[diamond]

Look, I'll spell this out.

MrsSpringsteen asks if you want to wait 8 hours to vote. You respond by saying voting is a right not a privilege. You later clarify by saying that what you meant is that people can have rights revoked due to their behavior.

It's clear that you're arguing, whether you realize it or not, that the folks who had to wait 8 hours had to do so because their right had been compromised because of their behavior. I don't understand that argument.

Perhaps this isn't what you meant, but it's quite clearly what you said. Hence my assertion that you don't know what you're saying.

MrsSpringsteen asks if you want to wait 8 hours to vote.

yes i would as i see any right attached to responsibility as a "privilege" as i believe most americans would agree with this concept.

You later clarify by saying that what you meant is that people can have rights revoked due to their behavior.

wrong.
that went into you parsing my words of "right" and "privilege"

It's clear that you're arguing, whether you realize it or not, that the folks who had to wait 8 hours had to do so because their right had been compromised because of their behavior. I don't understand that argument.

dont know how you came up with that, or how you thought i construed that statment, but that was never my meaning.

Hence my assertion that you don't know what you're saying

your graciousness is knocking the socks off some of us

peace
out-

db9

 

[Flying FuManchu]

Reform is great... as long as we can overturn the election, I'm all for it.

 

[strannix]

All we have are repeated anecdotal tales of 8-hour waits, and a few race cards tossed in as well.

With the number of lawyers the DNC had floating around, if there was validity to any of this, appropriate legal action would have been taken. It wasn't.

Not surprisingly, you apparently bothered little to find out exactly what the complaints are before you dismiss them out of hand.

For example, we have more than "repeated anecdotal tales" (although I'd point out that if anecdotal tales are repeated enough times by enough people that becomes pretty compelling evidence). The actual fact of the matter is that the number of available voting booths in the precincts in question were decreased, even though the population did not.

As I've already mentioned in this thread to you, there are many complaints in this matter based on actual fact. I repeat my request to you to argue them on the merits, instead of casual dismissals that reek far more of ignorance and partisanship than any kind of concern for integrity or fairness.

 

[strannix]

Reform is great... as long as we can overturn the election, I'm all for it.

Gosh, this is even funnier than it was the first time you said it.

 

[deep]

NamkcuR-

the larger point is that my kids are deep's neices.
most ppl know that mr deep and I are brothers.
perhaps you didn't.

by any stretch most would consider it an odd statement, regardless of our relationship.

that's all.

peace
out

db9

I would have asked that question to anyone that keeps implying an 8-hour wait is no big deal

In that same posts I asked

“where is your empathy?”

I can't imagine going to vote at 9 am and still being in line and still being in line at 5 pm, can you?

Many people would face serious problems at their jobs, or with childcare, and many other obligations.

To simply dismiss an 8 hour wait
Make you appear odd.

 

[nbcrusader]

Not surprisingly, you apparently bothered little to find out exactly what the complaints are before you dismiss them out of hand.

For example, we have more than "repeated anecdotal tales" (although I'd point out that if anecdotal tales are repeated enough times by enough people that becomes pretty compelling evidence). The actual fact of the matter is that the number of available voting booths in the precincts in question were decreased, even though the population did not.

As I've already mentioned in this thread to you, there are many complaints in this matter based on actual fact. I repeat my request to you to argue them on the merits, instead of casual dismissals that reek far more of ignorance and partisanship than any kind of concern for integrity or fairness.

Not surprisingly, you accept these stories as fact. What is painfully missing is the appropriate legal action if these "facts" had any merit.

Repreatedly pressing the accusations (especially with the last minute dramatic efforts of Ms. Boxer (nice tears)) reek far more of ignorance and partisanship than any kind of concern for integrity or fairness.