School Uniforms.

The friendliest place on the web for anyone that follows U2.
If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.

Justin24

Rock n' Roll Doggie ALL ACCESS
Joined
Oct 14, 2005
Messages
6,716
Location
San Mateo
Should school uniforms be manditory in public school? I think they would help stem those kids who claim to be part of some gang. It will eventually help later in life when it comes to getting a job. Many poor countries and rich countries make the students wear uniforms. Why not have our kids wear them. As reported in the article one researcher said, grades improved and drop out's lowered.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/qws/ff/qr?term=school+uniforms&Submit=S&st=s
BAY AREA
Studies divided on effects of school uniform

Demian Bulwa, Chronicle Staff Writer

Tuesday, March 27, 2007

When a Napa seventh-grader was cited for wearing Winnie the Pooh-themed socks in class and struck back with a lawsuit, it marked an odd but not unprecedented clash in the decadelong spread of dress codes and uniform policies at public schools.

The seventh-grader and five other students at Redwood Middle School, along with their parents, say the school's dress code is so strict that it amounts to a uniform policy. California law allows parents to opt out of dressing children in uniforms -- a choice that Redwood Middle School doesn't offer.

The case, brought by the American Civil Liberties Union, highlights the push and pull between parents who feel uniforms have squeezed their kids' right to free expression and school officials who say rules on clothing can contribute to safer, more productive campuses.

The officials say uniforms eliminate gang symbols, identify intruders, remove fashion as a distraction and foster unity. Critics say schools haven't demonstrated that they work.

Although California law has allowed uniform or dress-code policies since 1983, the issue didn't receive a strong push until 1996, when former President Bill Clinton, in his State of the Union address, decried instances of teenagers "killing each other over designer jackets."

A decade later, experts say up to a quarter of elementary and middle schools require pupils to wear uniforms. In San Francisco, 40 of 86 elementary and middle schools have them. Schools in Antioch, among other places, are considering them.

But studies have revealed mixed results. And many Bay Area school officials acknowledged in interviews that they have never tried to measure whether the uniforms are working.

A study last year by Virginia Draa, an assistant professor of human ecology at Youngstown State University, concluded that Ohio high schools that introduced uniforms in 1997 achieved improvements in graduation and attendance rates, and drops in suspensions, that were not seen in other schools in the state.

"Appearance matters," Draa said in an interview. "A school that doesn't have uniforms is like a fashion show every morning."

Draa referred to what one researcher has called "the halo effect," in which teachers may give more effort to students who appear to be more engaged.

But David Brunsma, an associate professor of sociology at the University of Missouri-Columbia who has written two books about the school uniform movement, says he has found no correlation between uniforms and the performance or safety of students.

He said uniforms have been adopted primarily at urban schools with many poor and minority students whose parents, while struggling to make ends meet, "are more likely to defer to educational authority."

However, Brunsma said, "It's a coat of paint. People drive by, see the uniforms and say, 'Wow, that school is really doing something.' "

Several schools that implemented uniform policies abandoned them because of the state-mandated opt-out requirement. Once too many families opt out, officials say, the programs lose their effectiveness.

In the late 1990s, the Modesto school district required uniforms at most of its 23 elementary schools. But the policy started "unraveling," said district spokeswoman Shannon Craghead, with two or three schools dropping out per year. Just four schools with uniforms remain.

Locally, schools in Newark and Santa Rosa have dropped uniforms because too few children were wearing them.

Asked about the momentum caused by parents opting out, ACLU attorney Ann Brick, who once sued the Oakland school district over its uniform waiver system, said, "That tells you parents aren't supporting it."

Draa countered, "Parents who fight uniform policies believe they can give their kids a social advantage because they can afford to dress them better than everyone else."

The opt-out option is at the heart of the lawsuit against the Napa middle school. The school insists its dress code -- mandating that students wear solid colors in cotton or corduroy, with no logos or designs -- is not a uniform policy. But letting students at Redwood opt out of the dress code would "defeat the whole purpose," said Napa Valley schools Superintendent John Glaser.

"If we let one kid wear designer jeans and logos, it opens the door for others," Glaser said. "We think a small measure of discipline is not unreasonable."

Donnell Scott, the mother of two girls who have sued Redwood -- including one who was disciplined for wearing socks with the Pooh character Tigger on them -- said the district has gone too far.

"This is a public school," Scott said. "It's my job to decide what's appropriate for them. It's (the school's) job to educate.''

Opting out isn't an issue at Martin Luther King Jr. Middle School in San Francisco's Portola district, which has had uniforms since 1996. School officials don't tell parents they have a choice.

If anyone asked for a waiver, "we'd strongly encourage them to adopt the school uniform policy," Principal Gilbert Cho said.

Students at the school must wear black khakis and white shirts, plus a red sweater that costs $40 at a nearby store. Cho said the uniform "takes away that peer pressure, the bragging rights that come with a $300 jacket. Kids judge each other by their personality, their academic performance and their athleticism."

Visitacion Valley Middle School, which has mandated black-and-white uniforms since the early 1990s, also does not publicize the opt-out provision.

If a parent asks? "I don't know," said Principal James Dierke, who keeps a washer and dryer on campus to make sure his kids are properly outfitted. "It hasn't been a big deal in this environment."

The administrators' enthusiasm for the uniforms is not shared by their subjects.

"I don't feel comfortable," 14-year-old Paris Burch said as one of his classes began at Martin Luther King Jr. "I don't even dress like this when I go to church."

"Other schools have free dress, and I'm jealous," said classmate Daisy Concha, 13. "We look really ... schooly."

E-mail Demian Bulwa at dbulwa@sfchronicle.com.
 
My schools have never required uniforms (dress codes, yes), but personally I don't know of any arguments against them, as long as they're not requiring girls to wear skirts.
 
Our district lets each school decide. I have no idea how many schools participate. Mine doesn't, and that's fine with me. I'm not really into uniforms of any kind. I have trouble wearing our school T-shirt on Fridays like everyone else does.
 
Majority of schools in the UK have uniforms...not really for or against them:shrug:
 
I've never liked the idea of uniforms, mostly because I wear t-shirts that have a message, and if my school had a uniform, I wouldn't be able to wear those shirts.

Our school does have a dress code that includes wearing no alcohol/smoking apparel, no bandanas because they are affiliated with gang behavior, and shorts and skirts can't be obscenely short. I think that's sufficient enough for students.
 
I'm against it. However, I come from a small town where we really didn't have a lot of problems with gangs and violence, and I could see how larger cities might want to turn to uniforms.

We had a dress code, but I didn't think it was strict. I never had a problem following it. :shrug: It was things like no sleeveless shirts, no hot pants, no hats, nothing that advertises alcohol, etc. Simple stuff.

I enjoyed wearing clothes of my choosing to class. When I think of my friends, I can recall the type of stuff they wore and how it reflected their personalities. I like that.
 
I always wore them and I liked it, especially in retrospect. It saved a lot of $ and you didn't have to feel like you're competing with the rich kids for designer jeans and so on.

Plus it made my choice of clothes easy in the morning. :wink:
 
I lived in Venezuela for 6 months when I was in 1st grade, and the school I went to had uniforms. I don't remember it feeling like a chore. Navy slacks/shorts and a white button up short-sleeve shirt. I think that's the standard issue school uniform, come to think of it. ;)

That's a good point about levelling the playing field, too.
 
I think high schools promote conformity too much as it is. For some high school is the last chance of them expressing themselves with what they wear before they hit the real world and have to wear that suit and tie, coveralls or whatever uniform life will give them.
 
BonoVoxSupastar said:
I think high schools promote conformity too much as it is. For some high school is the last chance of them expressing themselves with what they wear before they hit the real world and have to wear that suit and tie, coveralls or whatever uniform life will give them.

Do you think it's the school or the kids in the school promoting the conformity? For me, I see it being due to the students. It's all about keeping up with the cool kids - whether it be Abercrombie or UGG boots. I'd love to see some more individual expression, but those kids are usually made fun of for being different.

I guess for me, uniforms aren't a bad thing at all. It's sort of giving the kids a taste of their own medicine - they want to conform and uniforms are the ultimate conformity. Maybe it's just because I went to grade school with uniforms and a high school that required shirt, tie, and jacket. :shrug:
 
randhail said:


Do you think it's the school or the kids in the school promoting the conformity? For me, I see it being due to the students. It's all about keeping up with the cool kids - whether it be Abercrombie or UGG boots. I'd love to see some more individual expression, but those kids are usually made fun of for being different.

I guess for me, uniforms aren't a bad thing at all. It's sort of giving the kids a taste of their own medicine - they want to conform and uniforms are the ultimate conformity. Maybe it's just because I went to grade school with uniforms and a high school that required shirt, tie, and jacket. :shrug:

I see your point. And yes it's probably coming from both sides. But I was thinking more along the lines of conformity of thought, the art kids aren't going to try and compete with the latest fashions of the popular kids. I know kids who didn't have much more say than the t-shirt they wore, otherwise they were pretty invisible. At least that's how they felt, but that little bit of expression was very important to them.
 
anitram said:
I always wore them and I liked it, especially in retrospect. It saved a lot of $ and you didn't have to feel like you're competing with the rich kids for designer jeans and so on.

Plus it made my choice of clothes easy in the morning. :wink:

That was my experience too. Easy, cheap, and I could dress while I was half asleep and looked none the worse for it. :)

I don't think wearing uniforms for school hurt our creativity or sense of self expression at all. We were each pretty damned distinct.
 
I wore a uniform until I moved to Canada at 15. I really missed them, even though I hated them when I had to wear them. I constantly annoyed the nuns by pushing boundaries, but now those are some of my best memories. I still have my old school tie, however ask me about any of my non uniform stuff from here and I can't remember any of it.

Canada has a huge immigrant population, and being one myself, I think uniforms are a real equalizer, and take away the worry of being afraid you will look out of place when you are already scared about moving to a new school. I was already mocked about my accent, and I had it easy not being ESL.

I remember faces and personalities a lot clearer from my uniform days. Outside of school you had all the opportunity you needed to wear what you wanted and that was good enough for me :)
 
snowbunny00774 said:
I constantly annoyed the nuns by pushing boundaries, but now those are some of my best memories.

Yeah! I've never liked to wear socks, so I would often skip the socks, but they were part of the uniform, so I'd get told off about that. There were other ways of pushing it too -- just to see if you could.

Annoying nuns is always a good time. :D
 
indra said:


Yeah! I've never liked to wear socks, so I would often skip the socks, but they were part of the uniform, so I'd get told off about that. There were other ways of pushing it too -- just to see if you could.

Annoying nuns is always a good time. :D

We even had a phys ed uniform, a tiny skirt and under shorts. We played outdoor sports across from a college. We fell a lot. God we were evil :evil:

Yeah, the socks thing was brutal, knee socks :cute:


See - none of those types of memories from the non uniform school :sigh:
 
martha said:


Anybody else really hoping for a picture of this? :cute:

:lol:

Come to think of it, I don't think even my mom and dad have a pic of me in that uniform. That was a fun time, in Venezuela. I have some fun memories from there.

And I don't have any pics on my computer of what an amazingly cute kid I was.

'Tis a shame, I know. :wink:
 
I don't mind my school uniform. It makes mornings so much easier, and allows me to wear my nicer clothes when I go out to do something I actually enjoy. :shrug:

I've never felt oppressed and I don't think it hurts in any way our sense of creativity or self-expression...I know some pretty artsy/opinionated kids and they don't see the uniform as an obstacle to express what they think/who they are. I agree that clothes are a way of expressing yourself, but they're not the only way... and in a big, multicultural school like mine, the uniform gives a sense of equality where people can't be easily categorized or dismissed based on their clothes, because we're all basically wearing the same thing.

Besides, it's really fun pushing the boundaries of the dress code, wearing clothes that look like uniform but aren't (and getting away with it), and ignoring the "change your shoes" or "please remove your sweater, it's not part of the uniform" comments from teachers and especially the hall monitors :wink:.
 
while i understand and appreciate the freedom of expression angle, i'm beginning to become more pro-uniform.

it would be nice to have kids in a place for 8 hours a day where they aren't being directly marketed to.
 
I don't think uniforms squash anyone's freedom of expression. If kids can only express themselves through their clothing, they've got deeper issues than school uniforms. How about art? music? writing? theater? extracurriculars? Besides, the dress code issues at my school were mainly due to certain people feeling the need to express a lot more than their personality, if you get my drift.
 
Liesje said:
I don't think uniforms squash anyone's freedom of expression. If kids can only express themselves through their clothing, they've got deeper issues than school uniforms. How about art? music? writing? theater? extracurriculars? Besides, the dress code issues at my school were mainly due to certain people feeling the need to express a lot more than their personality, if you get my drift.

Well said.
 
Lemonchick said:

Besides, it's really fun pushing the boundaries of the dress code, wearing clothes that look like uniform but aren't (and getting away with it), and ignoring the "change your shoes" or "please remove your sweater, it's not part of the uniform" comments from teachers and especially the hall monitors :wink:.

It's so funny you mentioned the sweaters. I'm a teacher in a school with uniforms and I've been cracking down on that very thing lately. I've been pretty successful, I must admitt. I guess I'm a bit of a hardass.

I don't take personal offense at kids pushing the uniform policy, but I also feel like if I'm not going to enforce it, why have it? So I enforce it--shirts tucked in, no-look alikes, etc.
 
We were forced to wear our cardigans in winter. Except sometimes it was REALLY hot in certain classes and some teachers were reasonable but others were like "you know that winter uniform kicks in on November 1, there will be no exceptions." I mean, seriously, we were expected to sweat.
 
anitram said:
We were forced to wear our cardigans in winter. Except sometimes it was REALLY hot in certain classes and some teachers were reasonable but others were like "you know that winter uniform kicks in on November 1, there will be no exceptions." I mean, seriously, we were expected to sweat.

The school I went to was really old and in the winter some rooms were really hot and others were soooo cold (as in unheated and drafty). Luckily we didn't have to wear sweaters in the cold rooms and the teachers would generally let us wear coats if we needed to in the super cold rooms. I remember the very coldest rooms were the bathrooms -- the nuns apparently didn't want any dawdling! :lol:
 
I'm all about school uniforms :up: It'd put an end to those annoying brats who wanna whine about their nonexistent rights to wear a conferderate flag, or offensive t-shirts to class.

I had to wear a uniform in college. Honestly, I thought it wasn't too bad. However, since I was a cadet, there were stricter rules on uniform upkeep (I think I spent as much time shining my shoes as I did studying!) But I liked having a minimalist wardrobe.

One thing I learned from that experience is that, when we all look the same, it encourages us to look to other ways of expressing ourselves. I certainly came more out of my shell, because I wanted to stand out. I know some people argue that uniforms strip people of identity, however, I think my experience wearing a uniform helped me find mine.
 
anitram said:
We were forced to wear our cardigans in winter. Except sometimes it was REALLY hot in certain classes and some teachers were reasonable but others were like "you know that winter uniform kicks in on November 1, there will be no exceptions." I mean, seriously, we were expected to sweat.

Well, I don't think I'd be THAT much of a hardass.

All our climate issues, are related to air conditioning (since the temps always the same here) so when a lot of kids started showing up in sweatshirts and jackets, because it was cold in the room I just turned the air con down and the problem was solved.
 
Back
Top Bottom