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Old 01-28-2002, 05:39 AM   #1
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Saving oneself for marriage... to which extent?

You know, that Britney Spears girl always gives me food for thought...

No, seriously, the other day I heard something about Britney getting a naughty birthday present from her boyfriend, and subsequently owning up to doing just about everything with him bar intercourse. We all know that Britney's virginity is due to her Christian faith, so now I'm wondering...

[DISCLAIMER: I'm not trying to cause a lot of sex talk on this forum, so please keep it clean.]

If you are saving yourself for marriage because of your religion, where exactly do you draw the line? The way I see it, even an "innocent" act as kissing (I'm not talking about "auntie kisses" here, obviously) can be very erotic, but is it sinful if you're not married? Is getting naked together okay? Is sex defined by either party coming to an orgasm? Or is only intercourse considered sex in this context?

A few weeks ago on the BBC programme Heaven and Earth, they had a phone-in poll where the question was whether or not Britney is a good role model for teenagers. I personally don't think so, since what she practices is so far removed from what she preaches - and I didn't even know about the above-mentioned revelation back then - but do any of you think that she conveys a positive message?

(I would just like to add that I have nothing against Miss Spears other than what I consider to be hyprocrisy in the virgin department.)

Awaiting your responses, gentlefolk.
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Old 01-28-2002, 09:13 AM   #2
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I draw the line where it turns from being innocent into being lustful. I really can't kiss a girl for very long with out feeling lustful. While religion is a factor, I'm saving myself for many other reasons too. Disease, money, frustration, and all kinds of troubles that I'm being saved by waiting. I thought that I might save even my first kiss for the woman I marry, while that didn't happen I learned that I can't really expect to not be tempted by 'just kissing'. Lust is powerful, and sometimes I want to just be like eveyone else...but I love the woman I'll marry enough now to wait for her.

[This message has been edited by Johnny Swallow (edited 01-28-2002).]
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Old 01-28-2002, 09:20 AM   #3
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I saved myself until I was 16. At that point myself and my 15 year old girlfriend at the time thought we were mature and responsible adults.

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Old 01-28-2002, 12:57 PM   #4
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Klodomir, you've really put into words what I've been wondering about a lot recently, cos this question really confuses me, and there seem to be so many different opinions on it. Personally I think that saving yourself for the person you want to marry is a very good thing. But on the other hand I think that it would be wrong to rush marriage just cos you finally want to be able to sleep with each other. I'm Christian too and that's why I'm really a bit torn here. I think sex has many bad sides, but it can also be just a way to show great affection to someone, and I also dunno how far you can go without committing a sin.

Sorry, I'm not much help here I think the problem is that nobody can really know because only God knows.

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Old 01-28-2002, 01:10 PM   #5
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One should never save oneself for marriage, otherwise you don't know what you're getting.

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Old 01-28-2002, 01:47 PM   #6
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I didn't save myself for marriage, and personally I don't really regret what I've done in my past nor do I beat myself up for making decisions that now, may have not been in my best interests. Chock it up to experience, hindsight being 20/20.

A part of me wishes I waited until I met my husband, but at the time I didn't know my future and right now I wouldn't change my past for anything. For me, I don't think I made a bad decision, to have sex before I was married. I wasn't a person of completely loose morals, I didn't hop in the sack or have a good feel-up with every person I went on a date with. My only gripe I have is that I had sex for the first time in my teens. I thought I was mature enough to handle whatever consequences would come my way, and now that I'm older, I know now that back then I couldn't have handled such consequences. I may have been developed physically and I may have been driven my some primal instinct and I thought I was in love with this person enough to share myself with him, but emotionally I couldn't have hacked it. I know that now but I don't count it as a mistake I made in my life. I certainly don't regret the experience because that experience, along with others, has helped shaped the person I am today.

As far as lust goes, yeah, it's a powerful force that sometimes can't be explained. By nature we are animals driven by instinct, but I firmly believe it is our will given to us by God to use discretion. In my case I don't think sex before marriage is bad, but my case doesn't apply to every single person.

I find it sad that Britney Spears' virginity is always under the microscope. I think everyone needs to leave her alone and let her music speak for itself. She is just an image, much like Madonna is an image, and much like U2 had a rather subversive image during the Zooropa days. I don't think she should be a role model, I think that was something conjured up by her record label so parents could feel comfy letting their kids listen to Britney Spears. And to a greater degree, the squeaky clean image was used to sell more records. Miss Spears is human and she is surrounded by temptation like anyone else that's in her shoes and thrust into the spotlight. What she does in her bedroom should not be up for public speculation.

As far as spirituality is concerned, I think it is up to each individual to make up his or her own mind regarding a matter as personal as sex. Some people say "wait until marriage because sex before marriage is wrong" but that rule doesn't apply to everyone else. There are some people who don't think sex before marriage is wrong, and I don't think it's fair to judge someone else using our own set of moral standards as they might not apply to everyone else. Nor does the rule "get as much as you can get before you're married." Everyone is different. If sex is a matter between someone, their partner, and God, then just let it be. You know where you stand and you know what's in your heart.
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Old 01-28-2002, 01:50 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally posted by adam's_mistress:
I didn't save myself for marriage, and personally I don't really regret what I've done in my past nor do I beat myself up for making decisions that now, may have not been in my best interests. Chock it up to experience, hindsight being 20/20.

A part of me wishes I waited until I met my husband, but at the time I didn't know my future and right now I wouldn't change my past for anything. For me, I don't think I made a bad decision, to have sex before I was married. I wasn't a person of completely loose morals, I didn't hop in the sack or have a good feel-up with every person I went on a date with. My only gripe I have is that I had sex for the first time in my teens. I thought I was mature enough to handle whatever consequences would come my way, and now that I'm older, I know now that back then I couldn't have handled such consequences. I may have been developed physically and I may have been driven my some primal instinct and I thought I was in love with this person enough to share myself with him, but emotionally I couldn't have hacked it. I know that now but I don't count it as a mistake I made in my life. I certainly don't regret the experience because that experience, along with others, has helped shaped the person I am today.

As far as lust goes, yeah, it's a powerful force that sometimes can't be explained. By nature we are animals driven by instinct, but I firmly believe it is our will given to us by God to use discretion. In my case I don't think sex before marriage is bad, but my case doesn't apply to every single person.

I find it sad that Britney Spears' virginity is always under the microscope. I think everyone needs to leave her alone and let her music speak for itself. She is just an image, much like Madonna is an image, and much like U2 had a rather subversive image during the Zooropa days. I don't think she should be a role model, I think that was something conjured up by her record label so parents could feel comfy letting their kids listen to Britney Spears. And to a greater degree, the squeaky clean image was used to sell more records. Miss Spears is human and she is surrounded by temptation like anyone else that's in her shoes and thrust into the spotlight. What she does in her bedroom should not be up for public speculation.

As far as spirituality is concerned, I think it is up to each individual to make up his or her own mind regarding a matter as personal as sex. Some people say "wait until marriage because sex before marriage is wrong" but that rule doesn't apply to everyone else. There are some people who don't think sex before marriage is wrong, and I don't think it's fair to judge someone else using our own set of moral standards as they might not apply to everyone else. Nor does the rule "get as much as you can get before you're married." Everyone is different. If sex is a matter between someone, their partner, and God, then just let it be. You know where you stand and you know what's in your heart.
That was a very good post. I totally agree with you.

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Old 01-28-2002, 04:13 PM   #8
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I respect those who are waiting for marriage... It's an admirable thing, because sex really should be more reserved. If you fall in love with someone, then the wait should be a mutual sacrifice that you are both willing to make. I'd love to change the situation of my first experience, but since I obviously can't I have tried to remind myself of the emotional torment that followed. Giving yourself away to someone who sees you simply as another lay leads to horrible feelings of zero self worth. Sex is something to be shared between two people for the same reasons. I admit, I wasn't participating for the right reasons either, but I have learned from that. The guy who was my first approached me one day to say he was having to break his "multiple connections" to try and make something work with someone else... that was like a slap in the face--"multiple connections" I didn't even want to ask for a number. His remark to follow was "let's do it one last time... for old time's sake". That's when I knew I was looking at the finest example of scum on Earth.

The point is, I have learned through trial and error that you can show yourself the greatest respect by not acting on your animal instinct, and practicing a little self control.
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Old 01-28-2002, 06:37 PM   #9
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In response/agreement with bebes statement... Life is an experiance, nothing more, nothing less, people make mistakes, and as long as you learn from them and learn whats right and so forth, then in my minds eye that is repentance right there, if theres any regret at all then you acknowlege the fact you were wrong to have done something -> now this of course doesnt mean hey everyone lets go into something knowing its not what you should be doing and then after say oh well I knew it was wrong so screw you all... Laws and commandments are guidelines to life, theres always going to be some sway between doing exactly what is said and maybe selectively ignoring things time and again... But then again, shhhh I dont want to be flamed by anyone.
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Old 01-28-2002, 08:43 PM   #10
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I absolutely HATE people who do oral, anal, and every other kind of sex act except that whole penis/vagina bit and still call themselves virgins who are "saving themselves for marraige" as if doing everything except that one part somehow makes them rightioues and pure.

Technical virginity is bullshit.
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Old 01-28-2002, 09:27 PM   #11
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My boyfriend and I have lived together for almost 4 years now and we plan to marry, and are also waiting for our wedding night whenever that might be. Sex never is an issue, and never comes up because it's not going to happen - and neither of us has any experience with it anyway. Most of my friends tell me they wish they had waited - and most of the time I wish I hadn't because to some people, virgin = freak. I'm quite proud of my virginity and think it's sad that we live in a society that prizes the rush of young sex without the knowledge of the physical and emotional consequences. When you're a teen, having sex made you "cool" and "mature" - well, not having sex made me "peaceful" and "not pregnant" and "not diseased" and not "exposed" and for those reasons, I slept well most nights.

Our "wait" is not religious in nature. We just feel it's a moral decision and a peaceful decision. Usually the only tension is brought on by watching television and seeing people go at each other like feral dogs, and so it makes us question our decision. But at the end of the day, we know we are "saving the best for last" and it makes all the difference.... for us
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Old 01-28-2002, 10:19 PM   #12
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well, *I* didn't wait (and in a BIG way during my "vixen years"), but now I sure wish I had. Personally, I think it's the best, most romantic, most intimately personal gift you could ever give to another person (i.e., your spouse). Knowing I won't have that to give to my future mate really bums me out...
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Old 01-28-2002, 10:24 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally posted by DoctorGonzo:
I absolutely HATE people who do oral, anal, and every other kind of sex act except that whole penis/vagina bit and still call themselves virgins who are "saving themselves for marraige" as if doing everything except that one part somehow makes them rightioues and pure.

Technical virginity is bullshit.
I agree with you.

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Old 01-28-2002, 10:32 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally posted by Anthony:
One should never save oneself for marriage, otherwise you don't know what you're getting.

Ant.
Right on! Hehe...anyway, I have a lot of respect for people who wait until marriage--probably because I have numerous friends who I can frankly call slutty and their actions disturb me. Ex-->one of my friends slept with 9 guys in 14 days during our soph. year of college.

Anyhoo...I'm not very religious, so I don't have those ideals. I've only slept with one person, and he was the first person that I've ever really loved. I've had plenty of other opportunities, but I'm not into being careless, so I don't go there...

Ok, more info on me than any of you need to know...

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Old 01-28-2002, 11:31 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally posted by DoctorGonzo:
I absolutely HATE people who do oral, anal, and every other kind of sex act except that whole penis/vagina bit and still call themselves virgins who are "saving themselves for marraige" as if doing everything except that one part somehow makes them rightioues and pure.

Technical virginity is bullshit.
I completely agree with this.

I'm waiting, and it's because of my religious beliefs, but I feel generally that there are countless advantages to waiting.



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Old 01-29-2002, 12:05 AM   #16
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Don't you think it's different for a woman than it is for a man? I think women are more susceptible to feelings of guilt or think they have cheapened themselves, if they have sex before marriage. I'm not saying women are weaker, only that women are more sensitive to what happens to their bodies, if that's the right way of saying it. Correct me if I'm wrong. That said; yes, it is a personal decision and whether premarital sex is good/bad depends on one's motives/conscience/convictions, I suppose?

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Old 01-29-2002, 12:22 AM   #17
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Originally posted by Discoteque:
well, *I* didn't wait (and in a BIG way during my "vixen years"), but now I sure wish I had. Personally, I think it's the best, most romantic, most intimately personal gift you could ever give to another person (i.e., your spouse). Knowing I won't have that to give to my future mate really bums me out...
Easier said than done, but try not to be bummed out by a decision you made before you felt you knew better. Now you know, right? What you did helped you in coming to the decision that's best for you and that is to wait. I hate to read about people that get bummed out because of something they did, I mean, these things happen and everything (no matter how painful or how much of a bummer it may be) happens for a reason. No need to drag yourself down, imo. Not to sound too corny or give too much info away, but sex with my husband is a lot more than a good lay. It's spiritual and beautiful but there's passion and lust and all that good stuff to go with it that we share with each other, and we respect ourselves and each other in the morning. Knowing that we plan on holding that amount of respect along with trust and friendship paramount in our relationship as a married couple. Neither of us were virgins when we met, but having a sexual history under our belts (no pun intended) had no bearing on how we felt for each other. And it still doesn't matter because we are together, and share ourselves body and soul - the same can not be said for our other partners obviously, as before my husband and I met each other we never knew how good it can be, and that sex is more than a night in the sack. So don't worry about never being able to give yourself to your future mate. When the time comes your mate will love you no matter what, and your past will drift away. You'll be able to share much more than your bodies when the time comes, and that imo, is a LOT more than a roll in the hay. You catch my drift?

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Old 01-29-2002, 02:11 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally posted by Anthony:
One should never save oneself for marriage, otherwise you don't know what you're getting.

Ant.

I dont think everyone wants to get married to someone and honeymoon only to find out how awkward a first time experiance can be (thumbs up) - However, Im only speculating based on what Ive been told, seeing as I havent even had a girlfriend in a year, and never before have I commited any sexual acts save for kissing, not that its any of your business anyway...

**This next part is going to be long-winded so you may just want to skim it**
However, it depends on people's convictions, some people feel that it is truly noble, right, and richeous to save themselves for marriage, which is totally valid in my views. They have dedicated themselves to a specific religion, and based themselves on certain principles and morals by which to lead their lives, and thats definitely something there isnt enough of in this world. However, Im not strictly religious by any means, I mean lets face it, Im vengeful, I can be downright merciless, greedy, blasphemous... I dont believe specifically in the God that a lot of Western faiths dictate exists. I have my faults, but Im only human, someone tells me not to do something and Ill probably do it just to spite them, or Ill agree to listen and adhere to what theyve said. Its about logic, if someone tells you not to do something stupid like jump off a building chances are you arent going to do it. If someone tells you dont drink underage, or dont drink period (history: prohibition), then youre probably going to say oh hey Im going drinking screw you. Its descretion, knowing varying degrees of right vs. wrong. Granted, just because everybodys doing something doesnt make it right, if its not something you should be doing. People, as individuals, have to be smart enough to know what theyre getting themselves into. I have grown up in a family, where everyone is Christian, I however may go to church with them just to be with them, even though Im not really a true devout believer. My family is whats always been important to me, Ive learned so much from them, and I owe my morals/ethics to them. Hold doors open for people, call people on their birthday, say please, thank you, help out even if youre not asked, if someone pisses you off dont blow up at them but still let them know theyve crossed a line - go about things politely, violence doesnt solve anything but merely causes situations to escalate, be a leader and not a boss/tyrant... I dont know really... People devout to a faith of prayer, church, etc probably look at my list and go what else? is that all? And my answer is no, but at the same time yes. I make my own desicions, Im more of a naturalist/spiritualist, but even that doesnt cover it. Agnosticism I suppose is the closest... However, back to my point... Do I plan to save myself for marriage? No, not really, its not high on my priorities list. Do I plan to go out, simply for the sake of animalistic sex? Hell no I dont. Sex is supposed to be a ritual (probably a better word then that, but thats the one im using) for people who are in love, not just lovers, that term is too cliched and can mean too many things nowadays, but for two people who are truly in love. So, therefore, I will likely wait till I love someone, its reciprocated, and there has been time enough between us that its not about to just dissapear. 3 months with someone and I can pretty reasonably say I loved them, but it didnt last between us, distance and whatnot, but keeping in mind we were both 16/17 at the time and it just wasnt feasible (dont ask, Im not going to divulge any more info).

*long story short*
Sex depends on love, trust, maturity, and people. My english teacher would talk about the great chain of being, God is highest, People are in the middle, Animals on the bottom - sortof an Ego, Superego, Id kind of aspect. We are not God(s), but we are better than animials, at least we can be, rather than going around like animals having sex on whim just for the sheer reproductive/sex aspect, we have to elevate ourselves to the human level, we were blessed with emotions, sex should be more than just 'hey baby lets go get nekkid'. People have to be smart/mature enough for sex, and they have to trust their partner enough and be mature enough to handle a relationship - my point being, people dont have to be married to have sex, but they shouldnt have sex just to have sex with someone.

Ok, my thoughts in that summary are somewhat incomplete at the last bit, but I believe you get the gist of what I was saying yes?
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Old 01-29-2002, 02:23 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally posted by Anthony:
One should never save oneself for marriage, otherwise you don't know what you're getting.

Ant.
I'll have to go and agree on this one.

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Old 01-29-2002, 02:26 AM   #20
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Like others here have said, I believe it's really a personal decision. One thing I don't like is that sex itself is held as wrong, so people do everything else they can without "doing the deed" and think that they're ok in God's eyes, because they haven't had actual intercourse. If God didn't have intercourse in mind until marriage, then he sure as hell didn't have 69s or oral sex or feeling each other up, etc, in mind. So in that sense I find it annoying that Britney is held up as this model of Christian goodness (although she's trying to get away from that now) when her actions are no less lustful then people who go ahead and have sex. Not that I dislike Britney personally because of it. I can perfectly understand why it's hard to not do something with someone you're in love with, but I think it's time her record label/pr people stop with the virginity thing.

Aaaanyway, I believe it's a personal decision. Just as long as you don't start by jumping in the sack with just anybody . If you are in love with a person, and you're both facing the situation with eyes open and both feel it's the right thing, then there should be no problem. So my future wife (whoever she is) might not be the first one I've been with, but I don't regret it because I shared that ultimate act of intimacy and love (and really, really good feelings ) with someone I love and care deeply about.
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