Sarah Palin resigns as Governor - Page 32 - U2 Feedback

Go Back   U2 Feedback > Lypton Village > Free Your Mind > Free Your Mind Archive
Click Here to Login
 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 11-21-2009, 01:31 PM   #621
Blue Crack Distributor
 
VintagePunk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: In a dry and waterless place
Posts: 55,738
Local Time: 11:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by martha View Post
I think that when women use their looks as weapon against men, or as any other kind of tool to get what they want, it puts them in a secondary position. If we want to really be equals, then we need to be equals. It says that we can't get what we need and deserve, except when men think we're pretty enough for it. What happens to the ones who aren't pretty enough?
I would agree with most of that. In my view though, that's woman harming each other, more than women being harmed by men or by society. The fact is, men (and other women) respond to attractive women, and to be honest, sometimes an attractive person takes that approach because it's the shortest and easiest route to achieving a goal. So unless we can get every attractive person (men do it, too) to stop utilizing their attractiveness to further goals, it's just going to be unfair to average or unattractive people. Since that's not likely to happen anytime soon, we should probably find another way of dealing with it, or at least conceptualizing it.

I think in Palin's case, she clearly does use her attractiveness to get ahead, but so do a lot of other people, the phenomenon is nothing new. What irks me about her though is the whole victimization thing she does when her method fails, or people call her on it. If she's going to use it, as AliEnvy alluded to, she should at least own it.
__________________

VintagePunk is offline  
Old 11-21-2009, 01:57 PM   #622
Blue Crack Supplier
 
martha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Orange County and all over the goddamn place
Posts: 42,555
Local Time: 09:34 PM
I realize I'm speaking in idealistic terms, but I really do think that when anyone uses looks to get ahead, it lessens his or her true worth and equality.

I like eye candy as much as the next girl, but I'm certainly not going to base any important decisions on the looks of the provider/politician/anyone else.
__________________

martha is offline  
Old 11-21-2009, 02:01 PM   #623
Blue Crack Supplier
 
martha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Orange County and all over the goddamn place
Posts: 42,555
Local Time: 09:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AliEnvy View Post
Or it says we can get what we want, need and deserve when we think we're pretty enough for it. See the difference?
Yes, but I still disagree with the concept. Why do I need to be pretty to have equal access to rights? Why not base what I get on my worth as a human? Why do I need to rely on someone else's perception of beauty to be worthwhile? Isn't that exact attitude killing young women and (more young men) when they start starving themselves to achieve someone else's ideals of beauty? Isn't that the climate that has created the fear of aging that's going on now?



Quote:
Originally Posted by AliEnvy View Post
The same thing that happens to men who aren't good looking enough. Matters for them too.
That doesn't make it any more acceptable. The right to fully function in a society should not rely on how you look.
martha is offline  
Old 11-21-2009, 02:31 PM   #624
Refugee
 
AliEnvy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 2,320
Local Time: 04:34 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by martha View Post
Why do I need to be pretty to have equal access to rights? Why not base what I get on my worth as a human?
Why are you framing the concept on rights and worth?

Quote:
Originally Posted by martha View Post
Why do I need to rely on someone else's perception of beauty to be worthwhile?
By doing that, you give away your power, which is the opposite of what I stated and the problem that creates starving young girls.

Quote:
Originally Posted by martha View Post
The right to fully function in a society should not rely on how you look.
Nor does it. Don't get me wrong, I believe in substance over style, but I also don't see it as an either/or deal and fully recognize that style matters.
AliEnvy is offline  
Old 11-21-2009, 03:13 PM   #625
Blue Crack Supplier
 
martha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Orange County and all over the goddamn place
Posts: 42,555
Local Time: 09:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AliEnvy View Post
Why are you framing the concept on rights and worth?

Because that's what we were talking about. What are you talking about?
martha is offline  
Old 11-21-2009, 03:29 PM   #626
Refugee
 
AliEnvy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 2,320
Local Time: 04:34 AM
I'm talking about empowerment.

Attractive people have easier access to various opportunities but not necessarily more rights as humans.

And attractive can mean many things and take many forms.
AliEnvy is offline  
Old 11-21-2009, 04:05 PM   #627
Blue Crack Supplier
 
martha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Orange County and all over the goddamn place
Posts: 42,555
Local Time: 09:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AliEnvy View Post
I'm talking about empowerment.
Empowerment for what then, if not rights and the access to those rights.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AliEnvy View Post
Attractive people have easier access to various opportunities but not necessarily more rights as humans.
I see these as nearly the same.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AliEnvy View Post
And attractive can mean many things and take many forms.
We were talking about beauty, but you can change the discussion if you like.

I still prefer my "empowerment" to be based on my merit, not on someone else's perception of my "attractiveness," whatever that may mean.
martha is offline  
Old 11-21-2009, 05:23 PM   #628
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Irvine511's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 33,392
Local Time: 12:34 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by VintagePunk View Post
The Mudflats

Scroll to the bottom of the page for chapter 1. Although the next entry she makes, chapter 1 will probably be bumped to the previous page.


yes! i was looking at it the other day!

genius.
Irvine511 is offline  
Old 11-21-2009, 06:21 PM   #629
Refugee
 
AliEnvy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 2,320
Local Time: 04:34 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by martha View Post
Empowerment for what then, if not rights and the access to those rights.
Successful attainment of whatever it is one wants, needs and deserves which I think extends beyond the notion of rights.

Quote:
Originally Posted by martha View Post
We were talking about beauty, but you can change the discussion if you like.
And I used attractive as a synonym for beauty so not sure why you think I tried to change the discussion. Unless of course you don't think beauty is in the eye of the beholder and just want to be combative about it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by martha View Post
I still prefer my "empowerment" to be based on my merit, not on someone else's perception of my "attractiveness," whatever that may mean.
Successful people play to their strengths to get what they want. Whatever those strengths may be.
AliEnvy is offline  
Old 11-21-2009, 07:02 PM   #630
Blue Crack Supplier
 
martha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Orange County and all over the goddamn place
Posts: 42,555
Local Time: 09:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AliEnvy View Post
Successful people play to their strengths to get what they want. Whatever those strengths may be.

Well, if you're willing to get ahead because of your looks, or style, or whatever, have at it. I still prefer merit.

Beauty, attractiveness, style all fade or go out of fashion. Merit doesn't diminish with age or change according to fads. Women will be equal competitors with men when we don't rely on men's weakness for attractiveness.
martha is offline  
Old 11-21-2009, 07:22 PM   #631
Refugee
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Winnipeg, Canada
Posts: 2,455
Local Time: 11:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acrobatic View Post
She should've pulled that zipper down a lil further to compete with her son-in-law or should I say the father of her grandchild! I'm all Republican but leaning way lib if she has even a shot. . .
" I'm all Republican but leaning way lib if she has even a shot..."

That's why I love her...she even pisses Republican's off...Gotta love that.
Harry Vest is offline  
Old 11-21-2009, 07:24 PM   #632
Refugee
 
AliEnvy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 2,320
Local Time: 04:34 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by martha View Post
Women will be equal competitors with men when we don't rely on men's weakness for attractiveness.
Women will be equal competitors with men (if competition is how we're going to frame it) when they don't hold back from using every competitive advantage at their disposal to win. That's how men play the game.
AliEnvy is offline  
Old 11-21-2009, 07:45 PM   #633
Blue Crack Supplier
 
martha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Orange County and all over the goddamn place
Posts: 42,555
Local Time: 09:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AliEnvy View Post
Women will be equal competitors with men (if competition is how we're going to frame it) when they don't hold back from using every competitive advantage at their disposal to win.
Then we'll have to agree to disagree.
martha is offline  
Old 11-21-2009, 09:33 PM   #634
Refugee
 
AliEnvy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 2,320
Local Time: 04:34 AM
AliEnvy is offline  
Old 11-22-2009, 11:03 AM   #635
Refugee
 
AliEnvy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 2,320
Local Time: 04:34 AM
Anyway, to reduce what I'm saying to the idea that a woman should shake her booty to get ahead insults both men and women.

Rather, what I'm suggesting is that to deny attributes that make us uniquely female doesn't make us equal, it feeds into a patriarchal paradigm.
AliEnvy is offline  
Old 11-22-2009, 11:31 AM   #636
ONE
love, blood, life
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Tempe, Az USA
Posts: 12,856
Local Time: 09:34 PM





One chose to shake her booty and sell her soul- the other chose not to.
One is deemed more respectable than the other.
You do the math.

<>
diamond is offline  
Old 11-22-2009, 11:44 AM   #637
Refugee
 
AliEnvy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 2,320
Local Time: 04:34 AM
And along comes <> to demonstrate that any measure of female sex appeal in a man's world is unworthy of credibility.

As long as women allow that to continue, men will be dominant.
AliEnvy is offline  
Old 11-22-2009, 12:29 PM   #638
Blue Crack Supplier
 
martha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Orange County and all over the goddamn place
Posts: 42,555
Local Time: 09:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AliEnvy View Post
Rather, what I'm suggesting is that to deny attributes that make us uniquely female doesn't make us equal, it feeds into a patriarchal paradigm.
You initially didn't say anything about denying anything. You said we should USE these attributes to get what we want. Two different messages, the first of which not only feeds the patriarchal paradigm, it supports it and legitimizes it.
martha is offline  
Old 11-22-2009, 12:50 PM   #639
Refugee
 
AliEnvy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 2,320
Local Time: 04:34 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by martha View Post
You initially didn't say anything about denying anything. You said we should USE these attributes to get what we want. Two different messages, the first of which not only feeds the patriarchal paradigm, it supports it and legitimizes it.
Semantics? It's the same message. However, my message is to use our unique attributes on our own terms. You're defining it from a male perspective.
AliEnvy is offline  
Old 11-22-2009, 12:59 PM   #640
Blue Crack Supplier
 
martha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Orange County and all over the goddamn place
Posts: 42,555
Local Time: 09:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AliEnvy View Post
Semantics? It's the same message.
You may think so. Rearranging the words does change the meaning.


So then, you think what Palin's doing is perfectly fine? Using her looks to get what she wants, rather than her merit? After all, it's what she's got, and she's using to get what she wants And if a qualified woman loses because she's not as attractive, beautiful, stylish (all the same thing according to you), well, then, tough shit, she didn't deserve it because she didn't meet your definition of pretty, (beautiful, attractive, stylish)?
__________________

martha is offline  
 

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
How Obama got elected....... boosterjuice Free Your Mind 200 12-01-2008 11:07 AM
2008 U.S. Presidential Campaign Discussion Thread-Part 11 purpleoscar Free Your Mind Archive 1010 11-04-2008 05:27 PM
The Rumor / FactCheck Thread Dreadsox Free Your Mind 25 10-21-2008 08:49 PM
so...Mike Huckabee. Harry Vest Free Your Mind Archive 493 02-06-2008 09:01 AM
AdamPorn elizabeth PLEBA Archive 63 12-12-2001 01:21 AM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:34 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Design, images and all things inclusive copyright © Interference.com
×