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Old 07-12-2009, 09:56 PM   #201
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Does this fool understand that had we not done that, we would be speaking German?
is this a typo?
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Old 07-13-2009, 01:23 AM   #202
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is this a typo?
oh, didn't you know? frederick muhlenberg was the deciding vote to make our official language english, despite the united states not even having an official language.
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Old 07-13-2009, 04:04 AM   #203
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No, you gave me straight from Hannity's paranoia long stretch of a connection "answer".


Wow...


You CANNOT possibly be this naive. Rove was excellent at isolate and attack. The rest of your post is a joke.
Excuses, excuses.

It's not that you don't ask logical questions.
It's that you predictably dismiss logical answers.
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Old 07-13-2009, 04:06 AM   #204
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is this a typo?
I have to wonder what you think would have happened if we allowed ourselves to lose WWII...
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Old 07-13-2009, 07:13 AM   #205
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It's that you predictably dismiss logical answers.
I'm sorry but "Alinsky" type answers do not fall into the realm of logical answers. I find them lazy and naive. It just shows me exactly where you get your info and that you don't quite question the info you are spoon fed. I think that anyone that reads the 'Rules for Radicals' and doesn't understand that these are basic tactics used in politics by all sides is naive.
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Old 07-13-2009, 12:44 PM   #206
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huffington post

Sen. John McCain said he was surprised but not "shocked" by the resignation of his former running mate, Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin. On NBC's Meet the Press, the Arizona Republican said Palin's decision was consistent with his definition of leadership to resign from office mid-term.

NBC's David Gregory seemed incredulous that McCain thought Palin's resignation spoke well of her leadership capabilities.

"You have sustained personal torture, personal attack, political attack, investigation," Gregory said. "You have never resigned from anything. Is it consistent with your qualities of leadership to resign an elected post like this?"

"Sure," the senator said.

"It is?"

McCain said it was a question of how Palin could serve most effectively, and that she had decided she would be most effective if she stepped down. "I respect that position and that decision," he said, "and I cannot tell you the appreciation I have for her."

McCain insisted that Palin is qualified for the highest office in the land. But he declined to endorse Palin for a potential 2012 presidential run, which also surprised the NBC host.

"Can you understand how people would think it's strange?" Gregory said. "You vouched for her in front of the country, that she was qualified for the highest position in the land. Yet, you're not prepared to endorse her now?"


"Ronald Reagan didn't endorse George Herbert Walker Bush until the year of the election," McCain said. "I mean, it's just way too early. I'm confident she would make a fine president. The question is what's the whole political scenario?"

"Do you think she'll run?"

"I don't know. I know she will play a major role."
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Old 07-13-2009, 01:35 PM   #207
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I have to wonder what you think would have happened if we allowed ourselves to lose WWII...
You do realize that Germany had already been defeated by the time we bombed Hiroshima and Nagasaki, right? That's what Se7en was referring to.

In any case, the debate over the justification of those bombings was at the time, and remains today, essentially a debate about the additional cost in time and lives needed to defeat Japan conventionally, not whether defeating them was possible. Gen. Eisenhower, Gen. MacArthur and Admiral Nimitz all opposed it; Truman himself framed his decision in terms of reducing the cost in American lives, not in terms of what was necessary to avoid 'all of us speaking Japanese.'
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Old 07-13-2009, 04:45 PM   #208
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my hot boyfriend Levi and his sex hair have a theory: ...
So, Pat Buchanan recommended on MSNBC this morning that Todd Palin "ought to take Levi down to the creek and hold his head underwater until the thrashing stops."

Now let's see if nationwide frothing at the mouth ensues, demanding Buchanan step down for being a sick monster who advocates the coldblooded murder of teenage boys, etc. etc.
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Old 07-13-2009, 05:06 PM   #209
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So, Pat Buchanan recommended on MSNBC this morning that Todd Palin "ought to take Levi down to the creek and hold his head underwater until the thrashing stops."

Now let's see if nationwide frothing at the mouth ensues, demanding Buchanan step down for being a sick monster who advocates the coldblooded murder of teenage boys, etc. etc.

How very Christ like of him...

The man just saddens me. Where's Diamond?
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Old 07-13-2009, 05:16 PM   #210
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You do realize that Germany had already been defeated by the time we bombed Hiroshima and Nagasaki, right? That's what Se7en was referring to.

In any case, the debate over the justification of those bombings was at the time, and remains today, essentially a debate about the additional cost in time and lives needed to defeat Japan conventionally, not whether defeating them was possible. Gen. Eisenhower, Gen. MacArthur and Admiral Nimitz all opposed it; Truman himself framed his decision in terms of reducing the cost in American lives, not in terms of what was necessary to avoid 'all of us speaking Japanese.'
precisely. i don't believe there was any doubt as to who was going to win the war by the summer of 1945 (certainly wasn't going to be germany!). it was simply a matter of when and how, if you will.
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Old 07-13-2009, 05:17 PM   #211
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So, Pat Buchanan recommended on MSNBC this morning that Todd Palin "ought to take Levi down to the creek and hold his head underwater until the thrashing stops."

Now let's see if nationwide frothing at the mouth ensues, demanding Buchanan step down for being a sick monster who advocates the coldblooded murder of teenage boys, etc. etc.



hot teenage boys, too.
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Old 07-13-2009, 05:17 PM   #212
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I have to wonder what you think would have happened if we allowed ourselves to lose WWII...
I don't think the US would be speaking German. There would be holocaust museums in Dresden and Hiroshima documenting the massacres committed by Britain and the US. Not saying that would be right, but it is the victors that write the history. The Bush family would probably have been as successful in this alternate reality as they were in our universe, given their well documented Nazi connections.
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Old 07-13-2009, 06:33 PM   #213
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hot teenage boys, too.
Hot fuckin' redneck teenage boys who dig hockey, snowboarding, dirt bikes and hangin' with the boys, yafuckwithmeillkickyourass. And cappucino-swilling, Dijon-dipping media elites like Pat just hate that. He's not their kind of working-class white guy.
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Old 07-13-2009, 08:03 PM   #214
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Or maybe the kid's just a punk.
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Old 07-13-2009, 08:17 PM   #215
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Doesn't matter, he's still a direct counterpoint to the conservative populist agenda for America. As a cold political calculation, I could not be more pleased.

(I'm assuming it's obvious I'm being satirical here)
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Old 07-13-2009, 08:51 PM   #216
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Or maybe the kid's just a punk.

he thinks he's in the same league as A-Rod.
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Old 07-14-2009, 06:00 AM   #217
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I don't think the US would be speaking German. There would be holocaust museums in Dresden and Hiroshima documenting the massacres committed by Britain and the US. Not saying that would be right, but it is the victors that write the history. The Bush family would probably have been as successful in this alternate reality as they were in our universe, given their well documented Nazi connections.
IT's really a figurative point.

The enemies of the free world would have developed the atomic bomb and used it if we didn't act.
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Old 07-14-2009, 06:14 AM   #218
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I'm sorry but "Alinsky" type answers do not fall into the realm of logical answers. I find them lazy and naive. It just shows me exactly where you get your info and that you don't quite question the info you are spoon fed. I think that anyone that reads the 'Rules for Radicals' and doesn't understand that these are basic tactics used in politics by all sides is naive.
Spoonfed what?

I've done my homework.

I'll waste my time again...

Obama acknowledged his association with Frank Marshall Davis. He was only identified as "Frank" throughout Dreams From My Father.

Quote:
LIE: “But the key role Frank Marshall Davis plays in the autobiography is not to provide Obama with words from his poems as a voice for Obama’s black rage. Instead Davis is the mentor Obama seeks for wisdom and advice, for instance when he has a crisis with his grandmother that was so traumatic Obama still mentions it today.” [p 87]

REALITY: OBAMA MEMOIR CHARACTERIZED FRANK DAVIS MARSHALL AS A FIGURE FROM HIS YOUTH WHO “FELL SHORT” AND WHOSE VIEW OF RACE WAS “INCURABLE”
That is, from Obama's hit piece against "fringe bigot" (in other words, a critic) Jerome Corsi.

For you to distance yourself with Rev. Wright and yet calling him not so extreme is a curious point. You can't have it both ways.

Next point. The Gamaliel Foundation claims to represent a million people all over the world. According to Saul Alinsky, Gamaliel was the first great congregational community organizer - from the Book of Acts. Straight out of Chapter Two of Rules For Radicals, the plank is "the world as it is" versus "the world as it should be," which The Gamaliel Foundation emphasized as a primary talking point. Obama worked for the Gamaliel Foundation.

This is what Michelle Obama said during the campaign:

"Barack stood up that day and spoke words that have stayed with me ever since. He talked about 'The world as it is' and 'The world as it should be...All of us driven by a simple belief that the world as it is just won't do -- that we have an obligation to fight for the world as it should be."

And from Rules For Radicals:

"The means-and-ends moralists, constantly obsessed with the ethics of the means used by the Have-Nots against the Haves, should search themselves as to their real political position. In fact, they are passive -- but real -- allies of the Haves... The most unethical of all means is the non-use of any means... The standards of judgment must be rooted in the whys and wherefores of life as it is lived, the world as it is, not our wished-for fantasy of the world as it should be."

I understand the subject at length is too esoteric for ignorant people.

And what about you?

I still haven't seen an example of how Rush is "extreme."
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Old 07-14-2009, 06:36 AM   #219
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For you to distance yourself with Rev. Wright and yet calling him not so extreme is a curious point. You can't have it both ways.
Why can't I have it both ways? I have to like him if I don't think he's all that extreme? That doesn't make any sense.

When I say he's not that extreme, I really mean that his feelings are held by a lot more people than you think.

I think the reason Wright is such an issue is that the Rush type conservatives "indoctrinate"(to use your word) themselves with this American Exceptionalism belief and that any questioning or criticism of our past is wrong. I think it's an unproductive way to divide us. It's a political tool, a "Rule for Rushies" if you will...

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Next point. The Gamaliel Foundation claims to represent a million people all over the world. According to Saul Alinsky, Gamaliel was the first great congregational community organizer - from the Book of Acts. Straight out of Chapter Two of Rules For Radicals, the plank is "the world as it is" versus "the world as it should be," which The Gamaliel Foundation emphasized as a primary talking point. Obama worked for the Gamaliel Foundation.

This is what Michelle Obama said during the campaign:

"Barack stood up that day and spoke words that have stayed with me ever since. He talked about 'The world as it is' and 'The world as it should be...All of us driven by a simple belief that the world as it is just won't do -- that we have an obligation to fight for the world as it should be."
I'm not quite getting your point here, you think the world is fine the way it is? We were all going to hell according to you in another thread...

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I still haven't seen an example of how Rush is "extreme."
Rush has the luxury of being "extreme" because he doesn't really have to live up to any of his "beliefs". Rush is "extreme" because he want to divdide, his livlihood depends on it. He's even dividing the Republican party. He uses "compromise" as a bad word, which is great if all you are doing is talking, but in reality compromise is needed.
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Old 07-14-2009, 06:44 AM   #220
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Why can't I have it both ways? I have to like him if I don't think he's all that extreme? That doesn't make any sense.

When I say he's not that extreme, I really mean that his feelings are held by a lot more people than you think.
His rage is held by kneejerk anti-Americanists and anti-whites. I'm aware that a fair share of the voting population is sympathetic to it.

But, "US of KKK A", and "Not God bless America, God Damn America!!!" is extreme in the sense that it is over the top.

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I think the reason Wright is such an issue is that the Rush type conservatives "indoctrinate"(to use your word) themselves with this American Exceptionalism belief and that any questioning or criticism of our past is wrong.
I don't agree with "American exceptionalism" in an absolute sense. For example, I think it would have been best to stay out of WWI.

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I'm not quite getting your point here, you think the world is fine the way it is? We were all going to hell according to you in another thread...
If you're not getting the point, than you're not allowing yourself to make an obvious connection between Alinsky's rhetoric, the Gamaliel Foundation, and Barack Obama.

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Rush has the luxury of being "extreme" because he doesn't really have to live up to any of his "beliefs". Rush is "extreme" because he want to divdide, his livlihood depends on it. He's even dividing the Republican party. He uses "compromise" as a bad word, which is great if all you are doing is talking, but in reality compromise is needed.
That's interesting. You've told others not to compromise what they believe in the past.

I really think Rush is talking about people like John McCain, who pride themselves on "reaching across the aisle," when they become the aisle. I've already gave you the example of Fred Thompson, who has reached across the aisle without becoming the aisle. That's why Rush has no gripes with FDT.
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