Same Sex Marriage Thread - Part III

[Irvine511]

Gay men and straight men shower together all the time. Men (gay or straight) do not shower with women. Anatomical differences are more important here than sexual attraction.

Of course, harassment shouldn't be tolerated, and it's no different should a gay man do it to a straight man than a man to a woman.

However, if we just look at rape and sexual assault, it women have much, much, much, much more to fear from men than straights do from gays.

And lastly, most male-on-male sexual harassment is straight-on-straight.

[Dalton]

Originally Posted by Irvine511

Gay men and straight men shower together all the time. Men (gay or straight) do not shower with women. Anatomical differences are more important here than sexual attraction.

Of course, harassment shouldn't be tolerated, and it's no different should a gay man do it to a straight man than a man to a woman.

However, if we just look at rape and sexual assault, it women have much, much, much, much more to fear from men than straights do from gays.

And lastly, most male-on-male sexual harassment is straight-on-straight.

The concern that I'd have as an NFL team (where men are compelled to shower together as part of the job/culture as opposed to at a gym by choice) is that I'm not sure that a gay would have to sexually harass a hetero in order to create a hostile work environment. The shower itself might do it.

And irvine you sexually harass me all the time. You're a predator.

[Dalton]

Personally I feel worst for the gay dudes having to shower in that setting. I know for myself, I can't take a shower without helicoptering my bits. That'd be like putting a kid close to disney land but telling him he could never go.

[anitram]

If we're talking about the NFL, these are teams worth what, hundreds of millions maybe? And they have modern facilities. How do we even know they go into one communal shower like they're still in high school? Is it not possible for their stadiums/practice areas to put in individual stalls? I don't understand why we're just assuming that they "have to" shower together, if this is an issue in any way.

[Dalton]

Originally Posted by anitram

If we're talking about the NFL, these are teams worth what, hundreds of millions maybe? And they have modern facilities. How do we even know they go into one communal shower like they're still in high school? Is it not possible for their stadiums/practice areas to put in individual stalls? I don't understand why we're just assuming that they "have to" shower together, if this is an issue in any way.

We know.

[anitram]

Nothing prevents them from accommodating any "employee" who feels uncomfortable by providing individual shower stalls.

[Dalton]

Originally Posted by anitram

Nothing prevents them from accommodating any "employee" who feels uncomfortable by providing individual shower stalls.

And this, of course, is the conversation.

You guys have got yourself so wound up in this thread, you can't actually look at these situations as they come up.

Let's all take a deep breath and realize that while this is progress, it doesn't mean that the battle is won and everyone will be singing YMCA at happy hour. There are a lot of things that will need to be sorted through just as when women were breaking into the everyday workforce. That's not bad. It just is.

Michael Sam is a hero, but his presence is going to create a major shift in the industry (whether we want that to be true or not) and I for one find the conversations fascinating.

The good news is that, even in NFL culture, it seems that the majority of people (on all levels) are ready and eager to accept an openly gay player. But we all know that not everyone will. Missouri a blueprint for the NFL? - ESPN