Same Sex Marriage Thread - Part III

[Irvine511]

Originally Posted by Dalton

Probably both. And you can act indignant all you want, but you know this to be true. We're moving in the right direction, but we're not there yet.

i wasn't acting indignent. i was implying that it's less of an issue for the players than it would be for the owners and the anonymous NFL "sources" who are talking about what an issue it's going to be.

i think he's very brave. i think he's chosen integrity over money. this is a Jackie Robinson moment.

but i also don't think we should make narrow assumptions about the players and sports fans themselves, especially since his present teammates seem to like him a great deal.

winning seems to help people overcome idiocy. and as we've seen in the military, gays can inflict violence and pain as well as anyone else.

[cobl04]

It happens in every sport. Player takes a moral crusade of sorts, everyone is on his or her side, but then of course it's all that the media begins talking about, and coaches and teammates start getting asked about it, and it subsumes them as well. It does become a distraction.

It's been levied at one of our players here, Harry O'Brien. He's struggled with mental health issues, and he's also seen as something of a moral crusader. He talks about poverty and all that sort of thing. Personally I think it's great, and I'd like to see more footballers doing it, but last season it got to a point where it became a major distraction for his football club.

[Irvine511]

Originally Posted by Dalton

Well you could always do what other couples in those situations do and lie. Which of you would look better in drag on your wedding day?

Congrats btw!

well, i'm the pretty one.

thanks!

[Dalton]

Originally Posted by Irvine511

i wasn't acting indignent. i was implying that it's less of an issue for the players than it would be for the owners and the anonymous NFL "sources" who are talking about what an issue it's going to be.

i think he's very brave. i think he's chosen integrity over money. this is a Jackie Robinson moment.

but i also don't think we should make narrow assumptions about the players and sports fans themselves, especially since his present teammates seem to like him a great deal.

winning seems to help people overcome idiocy. and as we've seen in the military, gays can inflict violence and pain as well as anyone else.

I agree. He's incredibly brave and his making the announcement before the draft is amazing. But even if every teammate and every fan and every executive and every owner were on board with this (they're not), it would still be a distraction because he's the first. It's going to be a huge media blitz (rightfully so) and that will take players focus off other things. In the NoFunLeague - that's the greatest sin.

Same thing with Mante Teo last year. The biggest questions about him going into the draft wasn't about his football abilities, but the drama of his love life.

In other news, I spend a good part of my mornings with sports radio playing. For purely selfish reasons, I wish every gay athlete would come out all at once and be done with it. I long for a day when the only time I have to hear about gay athletes is if they're dating a model or another famous person or they get caught with their dick through a truck stop wall.

Gay men are in all walks of life and some of them are really fucking talented. Hooray. Let's talk about that.

[Dalton]

Originally Posted by Irvine511

well, i'm the pretty one.

thanks!

When's the big day? I went to the wedding of some friends awhile back in CA - word of advice: if you're going to be funny and do the garter toss, wear baggy pants or the garter on your calf. That was uncomfortable for everyone.

[Irvine511]

i agree it will be very interesting to see how the NFL deals with him. i don't know much about football, but Tebow and Jesus seemed to be an issue. and that Stanford grad thug with the 3.9 GPA.

here's some food for thought:

During a preseason practice this past summer, the defensive end Michael Sam told his teammates on the University of Missouri football team that he was gay. Then he went on to lead the Southeastern Conference in sacks and win the league’s Defensive Player of the Year award. The Tigers went 12-2 and won the Cotton Bowl. It was a good year.

On Sunday night, Sam came out as gay in interviews with the New York Times and ESPN. Prior to his announcement, Sam had been predicted by analysts as being a likely selection in anywhere between the third and seventh rounds in the N.F.L. draft, this May. A third-round selection would mean that he’d have a very good chance of being signed by the team that drafts him, while a selection in the later rounds would make his prospects more unsure. If he makes a team, he would be the first openly gay player in the N.F.L. Sam’s breakout performance this past season elevated his draft stock, yet there are concerns that he may be too small to play his position in the pros, and would have to be converted to linebacker.

But it is not Sam’s football abilities that will prove controversial among N.F.L. scouts, executives, and coaches over the next few months. Already, on Sunday, Sports Illustrated quoted a handful of unnamed league sources who predicted that Sam’s coming out would hurt his position in the draft. An assistant coach, quoted anonymously, said:

An unnamed “personnel assistant” said that the league wasn’t ready for a gay player: “In the coming decade or two, it’s going to be acceptable, but at this point in time it’s still a man’s-man game.”

When it comes to gay male athletes in professional sports, this talk of the locker room is often a euphemism for “the showers,” meaning the purported fear that some straight players would have in showering or changing next to a gay teammate. (Never mind that they surely have been doing so, perhaps even knowingly, since the day they started playing.) But it also extends to what has become the “D” word when it comes to gay players, or players who become identified as outliers for other reasons: distraction. Richard Sherman was branded as a distraction after he revealed himself to be excited after making the Super Bowl, and chided for putting himself before his team. (Things worked out fine for Seattle.) And, so the thinking goes, Michael Sam, and his sexuality, will be a distraction, as well. Football teams operate as machines, the thinking goes, and franchises want conformity from their players. As former Minnesota Vikings punter and gay-rights activist Chris Kluwe recently said to ESPN: “In the ideal NFL world, you show up to play on Sundays, and that’s it—they take you out of your box and put you back in.”

Yet it is deeply unfair and disingenuous of N.F.L. personnel to somehow suggest that Michael Sam has made himself into a distraction by coming out. Rumors about his sexual orientation were reportedly already being passed around by teams. And, last year, the word leaked that, before the draft, teams were asking prospective players questions like “Do you have a girlfriend?” and “Do you like girls?” Sam hasn’t made his sexual orientation a so-called “issue,” he simply took control of his story before the N.F.L. could.

Meanwhile, for the people saying saying that football players simply couldn’t tolerate a gay player in their midst, there is, thankfully, evidence to suggest otherwise. Just look at the Missouri Tigers. Speaking of the effect that his announcement had on his college team, Sam explained to the Times, “I never had a problem with my teammates. Some of my coaches were worried, but there was never an issue.” (On Sunday, several of his former teammates, along with his former head coach and university, voiced their support.)

Michael Sam may go on to do amazing things in the N.F.L. But he, and his college teammates, have already completed a historic, and vital, season. In the final minutes of the Cotton Bowl, with Missouri clinging to a three point lead, their opponent, the Oklahoma State Cowboys, were driving deep into Tigers territory. A field goal would have tied it for the Cowboys, a touchdown would probably have won it. On third down, inside the thirty, the Cowboys quarterback dropped back to pass. Sam, in a wondrous combination of power and speed, shot past his blocker on the outside. As the quarterback was flushed from the pocket, Sam sacked him, knocking the ball loose. His teammate scooped it up and returned it for a touchdown. Sam’s play helped seal the victory, and it was obvious to anyone watching just what kind of player he was: a real man’s man.

No matter what happens next, Sam has proven what we already knew: that football, or any sport, isn’t somehow in itself hostile to the breadth of human sexuality. At Outsports, in a great behind-the-scenes explanation of how Sam’s announcement was planned and timed, Cyd Zeigler writes that Sam has no plans to become an activist anytime soon: “His role in the movement toward LGBT equality in sports will be simply playing the sport as an out gay man.” He’s done it before.

Michael Sam Proves Football Is Ready for a Gay Player : The New Yorker

[Irvine511]

Originally Posted by Dalton

When's the big day? I went to the wedding of some friends awhile back in CA - word of advice: if you're going to be funny and do the garter toss, wear baggy pants or the garter on your calf. That was uncomfortable for everyone.

we'll be tossing jock straps.

[Dalton]

Originally Posted by Irvine511

we'll be tossing jock straps.

Boom. Nice.

[Irvine511]

Originally Posted by Dalton

Boom. Nice.

your advice is noted. target date is early 2015.

[cobl04]

Originally Posted by Dalton

I wish every gay athlete would come out all at once and be done with it. I long for a day when the only time I have to hear about gay athletes is if they're dating a model or another famous person or they get caught with their dick through a truck stop wall.

Gay men are in all walks of life and some of them are really fucking talented. Hooray. Let's talk about that.

[Dalton]

The most interesting of this story to me has been when they interviewed some of the Missou coaches and they admitted that they had to completely change how they spoke to and motivated their players in order to be kind to a gay player.

There's something about that gives me hope for the world.

[Dalton]

Originally Posted by Irvine511

your advice is noted. target date is early 2015.

Well done, man. Good luck. Marriage is a tricky bitch. Worth it, but wow is it harder than I expected (and Mrs. Dalton and I dated for quite awhile too).

[Irvine511]

Originally Posted by Dalton

The most interesting of this story to me has been when they interviewed some of the Missou coaches and they admitted that they had to completely change how they spoke to and motivated their players in order to be kind to a gay player.

There's something about that gives me hope for the world.

so no more use of "those faggots/queers" i assume? that is a good thing.

Originally Posted by Dalton

Well done, man. Good luck. Marriage is a tricky bitch. Worth it, but wow is it harder than I expected (and Mrs. Dalton and I dated for quite awhile too).

i'm looking forward to it. we've been together for 9 years, have lived together for 5, we own a house and a dog ... so we're basically already Mitch and Cam. however, something has changed (for the better) since the engagement, even though nothing material has changed. we're still just sitting on the couch on a Monday night flipping between the Winter Olympics and the Westminster dog show.

[corianderstem]

[martha]

Originally Posted by Irvine511

we're still just sitting on the couch on a Monday night flipping between the Winter Olympics and the Westminster dog show.

That's what it's all about.

Congratulations, dear.

(Give Memphis a smile for me, please.)

[LuckyNumber7]

Originally Posted by Dalton

He certainly cost himself some money. There will be teams who won't draft him because of this. Some because they're bigots and others because, more than likely, he'll be a distraction.

What about if a team purposely drafts him over publicity? What he gets passed on but goes exactly in the same pay rate spot as he would've anyways?

He's already a well known name. If he's even remotely successful in this league he's going to be a walking icon. He will have no problem getting endorsements, even as an average player.

[PhilsFan]

No NFL team will draft someone for publicity. The Jets used to but realized it doesn't work.

The bottom line is he's a mid-round prospect who already had fall potential because he's a tweener. The league is moving to 3-4 and he is being left behind. It gives every bigot in every front office an easy out if asked why they passed on him.

[BoMac]

Before last season, a lot of people thought that Manti T'eo would be a distraction for the Chargers. Sure, his press conference at the Combine almost overshadowed the whole event , and his draft day and first game was also a circus.

But guess what? Other than the odd joke or mention, nobody talks about that whole weird fake girlfriend thing. The circus left town after the first game, and one would hope the same will be said about Michael Sam.

After his first few games, hopefully talk will be about his performance on the field and not who he dates off it. After a while, people will see it's not a big deal and no one will care anymore.

All it takes is one.

[Dalton]

Originally Posted by LuckyNumber7

What about if a team purposely drafts him over publicity? What he gets passed on but goes exactly in the same pay rate spot as he would've anyways?

Have you ever watched the NFL? Ever?

[LuckyNumber7]

Originally Posted by dalton

have you ever watched the nfl? Ever?

no im mistaken please remind me what it stands for!