Same Sex Marriage Thread - Part III

[Irvine511]

Add CA in June. That's 40m people.

 

[Jive Turkey]

51 million americans now live in SSM legal states. I think we'll get to half the population in the next 2 or 3 years.

When you take into account the pestilence that will soon be among you, you might already be at half

 

[martha]

Add CA in June. That's 40m people.

This would be nice.

Especially if it happens after my school gets out, so I don't have to listen to half the staff bitching and moaning about it.

 

[martha]

When you take into account the pestilence that will soon be among you, you might already be at half

You are not kidding:

Invasion of the 17-year cicada: Predators, even people, will feast - latimes.com

 

[Irvine511]

You are not kidding:

Invasion of the 17-year cicada: Predators, even people, will feast - latimes.com

This was crazy bonkers whennit happened in 2004. I can't believe it's happening again.

 

[Irvine511]

This would be nice.

Especially if it happens after my school gets out, so I don't have to listen to half the staff bitching and moaning about it.

I'm sure lots of people bitch and moan about those people's marriages too.

 

[PennyLanePHINS]

Minnesota is voting on it tomorrow. Seems likely it'll pass, though there's probably a chance it may not (or could get pushed back as we know they sometimes do).

 

[Galeongirl]

Of course it's personal. You're talking about people's lives. And INDY in particular constantly comes in and passes judgment on other people's lives and how close to the his version of the "ideal" they are. Yet he expects everyone else to discuss it at a theoretical level. Very disingenuous.

I'd love to have a real discussion with him some day to explain how he can marry who he loves, yet I can't... :/ I'm honestly interested in the reasons why.

 

[Irvine511]

I love how more and more people are becoming aware of the importance of marriage equality. Now they're more than just aware.

They're Delaware.

~Ellen

 

[Jive Turkey]

I'd love to have a real discussion with him some day to explain how he can marry who he loves, yet I can't... :/ I'm honestly interested in the reasons why.

I'd respect Indy more if he just came in and said it was wrong because the bible says it's wrong and that's all there is to it. No definitions. No concern for society. No tradition.
Instead he pretends it's something we can have a debate with him on.

 

[anitram]

I also have more respect for the simplistic "it's icky/gross" view because if nothing else, it's painfully honest.

 

[Jive Turkey]

yep, even that is better

 

[PhilsFan]

His reasoning, as I see it, is that same-sex marriage only further separates us from the ideal of parents with set gender roles. Which makes no sense since being a parent isn't a pre-requisite for marriage.

 

[Irvine511]

It comes down to gender essentialism. Men are from Mars and women are from Venus.

Homophobia is really sexism. By being "against" SSM you're really trying to reinforce gender roles, it's actually little to do with gay people.

 

[anitram]

Which makes no sense since being a parent isn't a pre-requisite for marriage.

Maybe not for marriage, but for "ideal marriage" it's probably a requirement.

 

[Pearl]

It comes down to gender essentialism. Men are from Mars and women are from Venus.

Homophobia is really sexism. By being "against" SSM you're really trying to reinforce gender roles, it's actually little to do with gay people.

Yep. I've known some guys who weren't religious at all but were homophobic. That was because they held macho beliefs about being a man.

 

[Irvine511]

And those believes about "bein a man" likely involve implied ... not quite superiority, more like subservience (especially sexually) to/over women.

 

[Irvine511]

And now Minnesota.

http://news.yahoo.com/minn-house-approves-gay-marriage-12th-200825261.html

Before California. Amazing. Next week it will become state #12.

 

[Jive Turkey]

Where's Indy? Has he gone "micro" again?

 

[deep]

And now Minnesota.

Minn. House approves gay marriage; would be 12th

Before California. Amazing. Next week it will become state #12.

some will say the people of that state voted on what rights gay people should have

On November 6, 2012, a proposed constitutional ban on same-sex unions, passed by the legislature in 2011, was rejected by 52.6% of voters.

Minnesota became the second state to reject such a ban through popular referendum.

 

[PennyLanePHINS]

Aren't England/Wales supposed to be voting on it soon? Or do they keep pushing it back?

 

[Axver]

Aren't England/Wales supposed to be voting on it soon? Or do they keep pushing it back?

The third reading in the House of Commons is due later this month (the 20th or 21st I think), and then it will go to the House of Lords.

 

[Galeongirl]

I'd respect Indy more if he just came in and said it was wrong because the bible says it's wrong and that's all there is to it. No definitions. No concern for society. No tradition.
Instead he pretends it's something we can have a debate with him on.

Yet the bible is a book written by man. And it has been proven to be wrong on many accounts, so I really do not understand how that is an argument.
Even tradition is bullshit, wasn't slavery once a 'glorious' tradition way back? or paedophilia in ancient Greece/Rome?

I also have more respect for the simplistic "it's icky/gross" view because if nothing else, it's painfully honest.

Yea, honesty is something I guess. But I'm not forcing them to watch me make out, as far as I'm aware. I wasn't quite planning to do that in pulic ever, so yea, they can be glad I guess.

His reasoning, as I see it, is that same-sex marriage only further separates us from the ideal of parents with set gender roles. Which makes no sense since being a parent isn't a pre-requisite for marriage.

Soooo, when is he going to be advocating to ban divorce again?

 

[Jive Turkey]

Yet the bible is a book written by man. And it has been proven to be wrong on many accounts, so I really do not understand how that is an argument.
Even tradition is bullshit, wasn't slavery once a 'glorious' tradition way back? or paedophilia in ancient Greece/Rome?

My last sentence is key to my point. I'd be the last person here to defend religion or tradition as reasonable bases for arguments. But if he'd at least admit that's where his position is coming from, we wouldn't waste any time thinking there was a rational debate to be had

 

[BVS]

My last sentence is key to my point. I'd be the last person here to defend religion or tradition as reasonable bases for arguments. But if he'd at least admit that's where his position is coming from, we wouldn't waste any time thinking there was a rational debate to be had

(I don't really like talking about posters in the third person, but I think his posts are representative a larger group) INDY's very first reason in FYM was "status quo", over the years he's tried to rationalize and make it look like logic, but they just want their status quo. When they grew up marriage was between man and woman, it was ok to call a homosexual a fag, and America was good. Since America was good back then, then normal marriage was one of the reasons it was good, you take that away and it's a domino effect. America is bad now, and the status quo they knew is changing. Change can lead to evolution and evolution is evil.

 

[INDY500]

It's just too much to wrap your heads around isn't it?

 

[Jive Turkey]

It's just too much to wrap your heads around isn't it?

What is? That you believe stuff in a clearly made up 2000 year old book and base your life off that? yes it is

 

[IWasBored]

evolution is evil.

I thought they believed evolution doesn't exist. How can it both not exist and be evil?

 

[Galeongirl]

It's just too much to wrap your heads around isn't it?

What is? Please enlighten me.


And for the record, solving a Rubiks cube is rather easy. You simply have to know the algorithm.

 

[Irvine511]

it's official in Minnesota. it passed the senate 37-30.

and, meanwhile, in Russia:

Vladislav Tornovoi, 23, was attacked by two men in the city of Volgograd, who mutilated his genitals and raped him with a beer bottle.

In an murder which has sparked outrage across Russia and overseas, the young man's face was smashed with a rock and was then set on fire.

Tornovoi was allegedly killed shortly after coming out as gay to friends during a boozy Victoria Day celebration.

Two men aged 22 and 27-years-old - who were reportedly Tornovoi's friends, are under arrest on suspicion of killing him.

The first image of Tornovoi comes as gay rights activists condemned the Kremlin by claiming the government is an accomplice in his death for stigmatizing sexual minorities.

Laws which ban "homosexual propaganda" are set to come in to force soon under support from the Duma - the Russian parliament.

Campaigner Nikolai Alexeyev told the Moscow Times: "Political figures have provoked anti-gay sentiment by portraying the gay community as a bunch of freaks," Alexeyev said. "They are accomplices in the killing."

Prominent activist Nikolai Bayev also claimed President Vladimir Putin was an "accomplice" in the killing.

Writing on the GayRussia website, Bayev said: ""President Putin, crush the head of Vladislav Tornovoi! Strip him until he's naked. Break his ribs, beat his face and shove a bottle up his anus. Kill him, he's just a gay."

In the wake of Tornovoi's shocking death, an upcoming gay pride march in the capital city Moscow on May, could be dedicated to the young man by organisers.

First Image of Russia Gay Hate Murder Victim Vladislav Tornovoi - IBTimes UK