Same Sex Marriage Thread - Part III

[Pearl]

Originally Posted by Irvine511

It's illegal to refuse your services to people on the basis of skin color or religion. Why should sexual orientation be any different.

That said, I'd rather not give such people my business rather than sue them to make a point.

Unfortunately, many who are against SSM will see this as another form of an attack on freedom of religion and speech.

Come to think of it, how many anti-SSM business owners have turned away couples going on their second, third or whatever marriage? I betcha none!

[Irvine511]

Originally Posted by INDY500

Being gay is against the law in most countries that also allow polygamy.

But are you implying that heterosexual and homosexual monogamous marriages are superior to polygamous marriages?

We're talking about the US.

Be careful, the "religious freedom" fretting is a much more slippery slope to polygamy.

I have no opinion on polygamy. I'm gay. The two have nothing in common.

By all means, feel free to argue for the merits of polygamy.

[Diemen]

Originally Posted by INDY500

Most likely because, if current trends continue, "almost nobody" will be marrying. A trend started well before SSM to be sure but only exacerbated by this ruluing IMO.

I'd love to hear your reasoning behind the opinion that allowing more people to marry will cause fewer people to marry.

[martha]

Originally Posted by Diemen

I'd love to hear your reasoning behind the opinion that allowing more people to marry will cause fewer people to marry.

I didn't even pick up on that. I'm curious about this as well.

[BoMac]

Originally Posted by INDY500

Being gay is against the law in most countries that also allow polygamy.

But are you implying that heterosexual and homosexual monogamous marriages are superior to polygamous marriages?

Are you intentionally being obtuse? He was implying that one is born gay, but one is not born a polygamist. This is why one is outlawed and one is not. Laws against homosexuality make no sense. It's like making having brown eyes a crime.

Therefore, you cannot compare the two. It's very simple.

[Badyouken]

Originally Posted by anitram

That approach won't work with INDY as I've tried it several times and he counters with stories from right-wing papers about how bigots are being prosecuted under Canada's hate speech laws now, so apparently gay marriage has resulted in us losing freedom (not that we had a lot of that to begin with, being socialists).

Originally Posted by INDY500

Well, as it happens I was on the Canadian side of Niagra Falls for a week earlier this month. Couldn't have had a better time but the price of food... jeez. With the $10 hamburgers and $17 glasses of wine I fugure we must have paid for the healthcare of at least one Canadian for 2013.

But I'd also like to praise your country for this:

‘Hate speech’ no longer part of Canada’s Human Rights Act | Canadian Politics | Canada | News | National Post



Pretty sure I remember Anitram defending this law.

Unfortunately in this country "various human rights lawyers," gay-rights zealots and others in the media and politics will be sharpening their censorship swords.

Good call.

[Badyouken]

Originally Posted by BoMac

Are you intentionally being obtuse?

[AEON]

Originally Posted by IWasBored

Not digging the pandas?

No - not really. I may pick it up again.

[INDY500]

Originally Posted by anitram

Two things.

First, pretty sure I neither defended nor praised this law, but explained to you that our constitutional law operates in a different manner than yours and that therefore it was permissible to have this law as under s.1 of our Charter, you could justify the curtailment of rights.

Ok, thanks for clarifying, it was some time ago.

Second, you are quoting a Conservative Senator's opinion on the law and taking that as fact. It's as if I quoted a Republican on why it's necessary to have mandatory ultrasounds for women and then state that as a fact.

So free speech is a conservative issue now rather than a universal natural rights and individual liberty issue?

[INDY500]

Originally Posted by Irvine511

We're talking about the US.

I have no opinion on polygamy. I'm gay. The two have nothing in common.

Why? Why can't 3 guys or 3 women marry?

By all means, feel free to argue for the merits of polygamy.

Oh I no longer argue the merits of any marriage arrangement. As of Wed ideals are not only hateful... they are unconstitutional.

[Irvine511]

Originally Posted by INDY500

Why? Why can't 3 guys or 3 women marry?

Oh I no longer argue the merits of any marriage arrangement. As of Wed ideals are not only hateful... they are unconstitutional.

Don't be an asshole. Lose with dignity.

[BVS]

Originally Posted by INDY500

So free speech is a conservative issue now rather than a universal natural rights and individual liberty issue?

Originally Posted by INDY500

Why? Why can't 3 guys or 3 women marry?


Oh I no longer argue the merits of any marriage arrangement. As of Wed ideals are not only hateful... they are unconstitutional.

You've completely lost the plot. You've become the old man that argues with red lights and TV.

Free speech? You missed her point by light years.

[martha]

Originally Posted by Diemen

I'd love to hear your reasoning behind the opinion that allowing more people to marry will cause fewer people to marry.

I'm on ignore, but this one wasn't addressed yet.

[digitize]

I'm going to go out on a limb here and state my agreement with Indy that business owners shouldn't be forced to recognize gay marriage and should be allowed to, for instance, not support gay weddings. I do support gay marriage, and I think that business owners who do things like that are doing a wrong thing. I have a problem with them doing it. But I don't think that the government should block them. In all honesty, the free market will probably end up hurting them over time.

[deep]

Would you also agree if they did not want to service an interracial wedding or a Muslim wedding?

[AEON]

Originally Posted by Jive Turkey

You used to have the Obi Wan avatar, right? If so, I remember thinking you were cool beans. Either way, welcome back.

You're pretty cool beans yourself, Jive. I changed my avatar back in your honor.

[AEON]

Originally Posted by Irvine511

Don't be an asshole. Lose with dignity.

While "corporate/group marriages" are not a part of the Gay Rights Movement, I am curious what your view on them would be.

Should this be allowed? Should the government endorse/prevent any man or group of men be permitted to marry any woman or group of women, if they are all consenting adults.

[BVS]

Originally Posted by digitize

I'm going to go out on a limb here and state my agreement with Indy that business owners shouldn't be forced to recognize gay marriage and should be allowed to, for instance, not support gay weddings.

I'm not sure what post of INDY's you're referring to so I'm honestly just asking for clarity. What do you mean by business owners shouldn't be forced to recognize gay marriage? Are you speaking to benefits here? Why would an employer have any say whatsoever about the private life of their employees, as long as it's consistent? Could an employer stop benefits if they found out their employee was cheating? Could they deny rights based on religion?

Forgive me if I'm assuming, like I said, I couldn't find the post you were referring to.

[maycocksean]

Originally Posted by deep

Would you also agree if they did not want to service an interracial wedding or a Muslim wedding?

I would. And I am part of an interracial marriage, so it's not just talk with me.

I agree with digitize that the free market would punish them more effectively. Indeed, I'd do my best to make sure of it. Suing them to force them to serve me would be the last thing I'd want to do. Indeed, I would no longer desire their services and would be sure to let every one I know aware of where that business stands on a marriage like mine.

Freedom of speech is preserved, but the discrimination does not go unpunished.

[deep]

This is the case that has been in the news lately

Sued by Government for Refusing to Provide Flowers for Gay Wedding, Elderly Florist Files Countersuit

and this is what I responded to.