Same Sex Marriage Thread - Part III

[Galeongirl]

I'm blind, thanks Jive!

[Jive Turkey]

no problem

[trojanchick99]

Supreme Court will release their decision on DOMA and Prop 8 tomorrow!

[Irvine511]

Originally Posted by trojanchick99

Supreme Court will release their decision on DOMA and Prop 8 tomorrow!

the CW seems to be that DOMA is done, and Prop 8 will get kicked back to CA, which means marriage equality in CA.

a part of me thinks this potential narrow ruling is the most prudent way to go, and states can decide what to do with marriage, and it's DOMA that's the most insidious -- denying legally married couples in Mass federal benefits, as well as turning them into legal strangers should they decide to vacation in, say, Florida is just incredibly awful.

however, i'm thinking that, more and more, there are a lot of lawmakers who actually would like to see a sweeping "gay marriage for all" ruling -- it will effectively end this excruciating, state-by-state, incrementalist approach (like we just saw in IL) and make everything dramatically simpler. and the GOP will like it because it will take it off the table as an issue as it's now considered unacceptable to be vocally against SSM in polite society.

i don't think anyone thinks that this is the new abortion, despite RBG's fretting about how RvW was too much, too soon. two adults getting married hardly holds the same emotional pull as abortion, and "i believe marriage is between one man and one women" is much more complex than charges of "baby killers!"

i think the narrow ruling is likely, but i have a small suspicion that SCOTUS and Roberts -- who's clearly wants to confer SCOTUS legitimacy on the inevitable -- may surprise us.

not planning on it though.

[deep]

looking at the rulings released this week, I have very low expectations for this court
there is a way they can kick DOMA down the road and leave it in effect.

[nbcrusader]

Originally Posted by Irvine511

however, i'm thinking that, more and more, there are a lot of lawmakers who actually would like to see a sweeping "gay marriage for all" ruling -- it will effectively end this excruciating, state-by-state, incrementalist approach (like we just saw in IL) and make everything dramatically simpler. and the GOP will like it because it will take it off the table as an issue as it's now considered unacceptable to be vocally against SSM in polite society.

Sadly, the cynic in me believes that both party establishments want the fight to continue, as it makes for a great source of revenue (donate now, so we can fight for/against SSM).

Example: today's ruling on the Voting Rights Act led to an immediate appeal for support.

The money is in the fight, not the solution.

For what it's worth, I'd prefer the conclusive ruling for SSM.

[nathan1977]

Originally Posted by nbcrusader

Sadly, the cynic in me believes that both party establishments want the fight to continue, as it makes for a great source of revenue (donate now, so we can fight for/against SSM).

Example: today's ruling on the Voting Rights Act led to an immediate appeal for support.

The money is in the fight, not the solution.

For what it's worth, I'd prefer the conclusive ruling for SSM.

Wait, what? Nbcrusader is back?!

[IWasBored]

Originally Posted by nathan1977

Wait, what? Nbcrusader is back?!

Right? Holy crap! Welcome back

[BoMac]

DOMA is unconstitutional, says the SCOTUS.

[u2popmofo]

[MrsSpringsteen]

Great day in our history. Makes me proud.

[BonosSaint]

Good day.

[PhilsFan]

Prop 8 is out too. AMERICA.

[Galeongirl]

[trojanchick99]

In tears watching the press conference in front of the Supreme Court. What a great day!

[deep]

Good outcomes, but a terrible court.

These narrow decisions (5-4) feed controversy.

Scalia, a truly disgusting person and terrible jurist votes with the 5 on the Prop 8 ruling.

[AchtungBono]

Congratulations to all those affected by this decision.....I know it means a lot to you.

......Now if only the SC would modify the second amendment that would REALLY be fantastic.

[u2popmofo]

My Facebook feed is going to get interesting.

[deep]

Scalia is angry, he wanted to do the same thing with DOMA as he (they) did with Prop 8. Make a finding of no standing.

Antonin Scalia dissented from the decision on the grounds that the court did not have standing to take the case.

He wrote:

The Court is eager—hungry—to tell everyone its view of the legal question at the heart of this case... Yet the plaintiff and the Government agree entirely on what should happen in this lawsuit. They agree that the court below got it right; and they agreed in the court below that the court below that one got it right as well. What, then, are we doing here?

He also speculated that the majority justices are trying to hide their plan to issue a more sweeping ruling in the near future:

My guess is that the majority, while reluctant to suggest that defining the meaning of “marriage” in federal statutes is unsupported by any of the Federal Government’s enumerated powers, nonetheless needs some rhetorical basis to support its pretense that today’s prohibition of laws excluding same-sex marriage is confined to the Federal Government (leaving the second, state-law shoe to be dropped later, maybe next Term). But I am only guessing.

He criticized the majority for not fairly representing the views of Defense of Marriage Act supporters:

I imagine that this is because it is harder to maintain the illusion of the Act’s supporters as unhinged members of a wild-eyed lynch mob when one first describes their views as they see them.

Then he got really angry:

To be sure (as the majority points out), the legislation is called the Defense of Marriage Act. But to defend traditional marriage is not to condemn, demean, or humiliate those who would prefer other arrangements, any more than to defend the Constitution of the United States is to condemn, demean, or humiliate other constitutions. To hurl such accusations so casually demeans this institution. In the majority’s judgment, any resistance to its holding is beyond the pale of reasoned disagreement. To question its high-handed invalidation of a presumptively valid statute is to act (the majority is sure) with the purpose to “disparage,” ”injure,” “degrade,” ”demean,” and “humiliate” our fellow human beings, our fellow citizens, who are homosexual. All that, simply for supporting an Act that did no more than codify an aspect of marriage that had been unquestioned in our society for most of its existence—indeed, had been unquestioned in virtually all societies for virtually all of human history. It is one thing for a society to elect change; it is another for a court of law to impose change by adjudging those who oppose it hostes humani generis, enemies of the human race.

He ended with a bit of concern-trolling, saying today's decision on DOMA was bad for both supporters and opponents of same-sex marriage:

Some will rejoice in today’s decision, and some will despair at it; that is the nature of a controversy that matters so much to so many. But the Court has cheated both sides, robbing the winners of an honest victory, and the losers of the peace that comes from a fair defeat. We owed both of them better.

Read more: Antonin Scalia's Gay Marriage Dissent Is Dripping With Sarcasm - Business Insider

[martha]