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Old 08-03-2012, 02:02 PM   #21
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this is a basic right that is denied to a portion of our population. They are not getting more rights, or more privileges than anyone else, they are asking to be treated equal.

Because your faith disagrees with same sex marriage doesn't mean your beliefs should be imposed on others. It's plain and simple as that. You don't want sharia law imposed on you, and you don't want your ability to express your faith removed completely.

The feelings of a majority isn't a right to rule on the minority. Let them get married, go on with your life, and see if anything changes (nothing will change, and if anything does, it's not related to gay marriage).
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Old 08-03-2012, 02:51 PM   #22
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Even in my liberal college town the "haters" were deployed in full force and our wait was 50 minutes.

True grassroots activism, community organizing and the use of social media isn't supposed to happen from the Right is it? Oh, oh, might spell trouble come this November.

I wish that many people would crowd farmer's markets.

You know who the real winner is here? Pharmaceuticals. Everyone that went to CFA in the masses just brought themselves one white box closer to diabetes. How sad is it that these people felt that risking their health was worth proving a point? Did they prove a point? Everyone who stays away from fast food is going to enjoy a longer, healthier life...regardless of who they marry.

Americans already have the obesity stereotype, and that's how the rest of the world sees us. So it would not surprise me if the rest of the world is laughing about how ridiculous this whole thing is.
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Old 08-03-2012, 02:56 PM   #23
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Even in my liberal college town the "haters" were deployed in full force and our wait was 50 minutes.
I think it's really embarrassing to stand in line for nearly an hour for disgusting deep fried chicken by-product.
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Old 08-03-2012, 03:13 PM   #24
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What do you value more? Equality or liberty?


for me, equality is liberty. see how that works? they're not mutually opposed to one another.
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Old 08-03-2012, 03:27 PM   #25
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It's too bad these "christians" don't create lines around the building when it's a food bank handing out food to the poor and homeless, for this is ACTUALLY something Jesus spoke about. No, these hypocrites would rather focus on the distorted sins that don't effect them rather than the ones that actually define them.
Yeah, I've seen that meme going around.

You do know that tens of millions of Christians every week do indeed line up to serve the homeless, right? Feed the hungry? Pray with the sick? Advocate on behalf of health care for the poorest amongst us? Are you positive that a few of the people who lined up as a calm, peaceful protest about an issue they care about deeply aren't also lining up regularly to feed the poor and homeless?

I'm not sure that the best way to combat prejudice is more prejudice. The best way to combat ignorance is with education and grace. To do otherwise reduces humanity on both sides of the discussion.
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Old 08-03-2012, 03:42 PM   #26
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You know, reading these posts I've really given up on the hope that people will some day understand what freedom of speech means.
Exactly what I think when I read posts defending hate speech laws, campus speech codes, political correctness, vilifying Citizens United or when liberal metropolitan mayors threaten to use the powers of government to remove businesses with nonconforming "values." The very definition of fascism.
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Old 08-03-2012, 03:47 PM   #27
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The very definition of fascism.


really what's important is that you remain free to feel unchallenged and totally comfortable opposing (without any rational basis!) basic civil rights for a small, traditionally despised segment of the population.
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Old 08-03-2012, 03:48 PM   #28
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Yeah, I've seen that meme going around.

You do know that tens of millions of Christians every week do indeed line up to serve the homeless, right? Feed the hungry? Pray with the sick? Advocate on behalf of health care for the poorest amongst us? Are you positive that a few of the people who lined up as a calm, peaceful protest about an issue they care about deeply aren't also lining up regularly to feed the poor and homeless?

I'm not sure that the best way to combat prejudice is more prejudice. The best way to combat ignorance is with education and grace. To do otherwise reduces humanity on both sides of the discussion.
I hope they are doing some good toward the sick and poor, but why not also show compassion to gays - who are outcasted by some Christians. For those conservative Christians to say they love gay people yet are against their "lifestyle" sounds more negative than compassionate. To me, it goes against 1 Corinthians 13.
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Old 08-03-2012, 03:52 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by nathan1977

Yeah, I've seen that meme going around.

You do know that tens of millions of Christians every week do indeed line up to serve the homeless, right? Feed the hungry? Pray with the sick? Advocate on behalf of health care for the poorest amongst us? Are you positive that a few of the people who lined up as a calm, peaceful protest about an issue they care about deeply aren't also lining up regularly to feed the poor and homeless?

I'm not sure that the best way to combat prejudice is more prejudice. The best way to combat ignorance is with education and grace. To do otherwise reduces humanity on both sides of the discussion.
I think you missed my point. This was a "grassroots" movement put out very quickly via social media and prominent figures like INDY said, right? And apparently there were lines around the building. Almost every major city has a "service day" where they try and do something similar yet the turn out and fan fare is nothing compared to this. I know, I've been a part of these drives and I've been a part of some large churches. And I'm not saying Christians don't go out and feed the homeless, what I'm saying is that I don't see Palin and Huckabee tweeting about that. I don't see lines around the building for that. This is not coming from prejudice or ignorance, this is coming from experience and long discussions with pastors who are hanging their heads in embarrassment about this type of "protest" when they can't get a significant percentage of their congregation to volunteer even during the holidays. I think it's time we start looking in the mirror rather than focusing on issues that do not and will not effect us.
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Old 08-03-2012, 03:52 PM   #30
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really what's important is that you remain free to feel unchallenged and totally comfortable opposing (without any rational basis!) basic civil rights for a small, traditionally despised segment of the population.
I'm starting to think INDY either knows he's wrong to be against LGBTs and is afraid to admit it because he'll realize all that he believes in would be wrong too, or he harbors some very strong homophobia and won't voice them here or else he'll be banned. That's my theory anyway.
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Old 08-03-2012, 03:55 PM   #31
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I think sometimes he just likes to rile everyone up.
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Old 08-03-2012, 03:55 PM   #32
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I'm starting to think INDY either knows he's wrong to be against LGBTs and is afraid to admit it because he'll realize all that he believes in would be wrong too, or he harbors some very strong homophobia and won't voice them here or else he'll be banned. That's my theory anyway.


it's an opportunity to feel sanctimonious. it's been twisted to the point where my being gay is a violation of religious freedom.
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Old 08-03-2012, 04:18 PM   #33
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I resent the Boston "values" being in quotes. We do have values here- because they're not yours Indy,they're not any less valid. Guess what, I have Christian values too. Happen to think they're pretty good.

I agree that equality is liberty, don't think you can have true liberty without it.
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Old 08-03-2012, 04:21 PM   #34
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Equality is at worst downright evil and at best counterproductive.
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Old 08-03-2012, 04:21 PM   #35
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it's been twisted to the point where my being gay is a violation of religious freedom.
It is quite interesting how the talking points have changed since this has become a national debate. For years they tried to sell us the "it will destroy the sanctity of marriage" and then they realized that they were doing that from within, so then they just argued a vague moral standing, but soon got frustrated with the fact that they had nothing but a distorted religious reason and that wouldn't stand. So now we have the "you're violating my religious freedom" argument.

It would almost be comical if you forgot about how their ignorance actually effects the rights of humans in this country.
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Old 08-03-2012, 04:24 PM   #36
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Equality is at worst downright evil and at best counterproductive.
Just meant to stir? I have a hard time any decent human being actually believes this shite.

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We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness
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Old 08-03-2012, 04:27 PM   #37
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Well, indeed. Created equal. Equal of opportunity - not of outcome.
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Old 08-03-2012, 04:30 PM   #38
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I'm starting to think INDY either knows he's wrong to be against LGBTs and is afraid to admit it because he'll realize all that he believes in would be wrong too, or he harbors some very strong homophobia and won't voice them here or else he'll be banned. That's my theory anyway.
What does "against LGBTs" mean?
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Old 08-03-2012, 04:30 PM   #39
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I think created equal means you don't have to earn it.
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Old 08-03-2012, 04:39 PM   #40
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I think created equal means you don't have to earn it.
Yes, and it should, but I am trying to get across the difference between equality of outcome and equality of opportunity. I think that gay marriage can be easily encompassed into the quote above from the constitution. But sometimes the left seem to want to legislate to make everyone equal in every way. That's why I start objecting when the word "equality" is thrown around.
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