Same-Sex Marriage General Discussion Thread

[BVS]

How is it possible that the argument against gay marriage just got worse? That has to be the dumbest argument I've ever seen, only the westboro church can outdo that fucked up logic.

 

[Irvine511]

i wish people would realize that the Pilgrims came to the USA for the religious freedom to discriminate against others, and that right is sacred.

 

[MrsSpringsteen]

gawker.com

City of Boston, Jim Henson Company Refuse to Do Business with Chick-fil-A

Neetzan Zimmerman

Boston mayor Thomas Menino issued a candid statement last week expressing his distaste for the possibility that the controversial fast-food chain Chick-fil-A might open up a branch in Beantown.

"Chick-fil-A doesn't belong in Boston," said Menino. "You can't have a business in the city of Boston that discriminates against a population. We're an open city, we're a city that's at the forefront of inclusion."

Dan Cathy, president and COO of the Atlanta-based company's president, incurred the wrath of many when he told the Baptist Press recently that Chick-fil-A was "guilty as charged" in their opposition to same-sex marriage.

Chick-fil-A is reportedly hoping to open a store in Boston, right across the street from City Hall and steps away from the city's iconic Freedom Trail. "That's the Freedom Trail," Menino told the Boston Herald. "That's where it all started right here. And we're not going to have a company, Chick-fil-A or whatever the hell the name is, on our Freedom Trail."

The mayor vowed to make it "very difficult" for Chick-fil-A to obtain the licenses necessary to open an establishment in Boston.

Meanwhile, the Jim Henson Company has also made it clear that they are no longer interested in doing business with Chick-fil-A.

"The Jim Henson Company has celebrated and embraced diversity and inclusiveness for over fifty years and we have notified Chick-Fil-A that we do not wish to partner with them on any future endeavors," the company said in a statement on its Facebook page. "Lisa Henson, our CEO is personally a strong supporter of gay marriage and has directed us to donate the payment we received from Chick-Fil-A to GLAAD."

Chick-fil-A recently began including Jim Henson's Creature Shop toys in their Kid's Meals, and will presumably continue to do so until August 18th.

Elsewhere, activists have launched a call for a National Same-Sex Kiss Day at Chick-fil-A to take place on August 3rd. You can learn more on the initiative's Facebook page.

 

[Irvine511]

It's really awful that good, quality, and often charitable companies are punished by elites simply for speaking out about their deeply held beliefs. Millions of Americans want to discriminate against gay people, as is their protected religious right to do so, and Chik-Fil-A has every right to as well. If there's one thing Mitt Romney has taught us it's that corporations are people, and as people, they are guaranteed the religious freedom to deny civil rights to people who are against their religion.

 

[BoMac]

Amen, brother!

 

[digitize]

As much as I completely disagree with Chick-Fil-A's stance, I have strong reservations against the City of Boston actively working to ensure that no CFA branches open in the city for that reason.

 

[MrsSpringsteen]

As much as I completely disagree with Chick-Fil-A's stance, I have strong reservations against the City of Boston actively working to ensure that no CFA branches open in the city for that reason.

I can see that side of it as far as-obviously Mayor Menino doesn't know the gay marriage and gay rights stance of every business in the city of Boston. Chick-Fil-A was just very public about it. So are you going to ask that of every potential business, ask them what their stance is? I'm sure you'll get the truth, when you make that a condition of doing business. On the other hand, how you can have the guy being so public about it when Boston and MA have such a pioneering history in gay rights and gay marriage? Doesn't it make you look like a hypocrite for allowing them to open now? I don't agree at all with the guy's stance (chicken guy), obviously. But I do think that can be a slippery slope, to start making those types of decisions about businesses.

Guess you could argue that freedom to do business is a freedom too, and freedom for consumers to choose whether or not they want to support the place. I'm sure the Freedom Trial might already have businesses who discriminate in some way, shape or form. Or who are owned by someone who is opposed to gay marriage.

On a much lighter note, Mayor Menino should really stick to that " or whatever the hell the name is". It would work for Varitek putting it through the uprights, Wekler and Grabowski...and on and on and on. I need some video of the mayor saying Chick-Fil-A.

 

[deep]

Muppets dump Chick-Fil-A to support gay marriage | Reuters

 

[Irvine511]

Also, Sally Ride was gay.

Thankfully, her partner of 27 years will be denied federal death benefits because of DOMA.

 

[deep]

She was not gay when she went into space. That would have been really big news.

 

[digitize]

Thankfully, her partner of 27 years will be denied federal death benefits because of DOMA.

That is indeed disgusting. And RIP to Sally Ride. She was an inspirational woman.

 

[Moonlit_Angel]

But remember, that's not as insulting as calling people like Prejean dumb.

Sigh. Anywho, MrsS, great post. Well said.

It is cool, though, to see that Boston and the Jim Henson Company show their support for gay rights loud and clear.

 

[yolland]

That has to be the dumbest argument I've ever seen, only the westboro church can outdo that fucked up logic.

Can't tell which or whose argument you're referring to, but at a minimum this doesn't sound like a halfway serious attempt to confront it.

She was not gay when she went into space. That would have been really big news.

I hadn't really thought about Sally Ride in 20-odd years and was not quite 12 when she made her first shuttle flight, but reading the articles about her death tonight brought back some pretty vivid memories of just how insulting the "journalistic" questions and attitudes aimed at a highly ambitious woman in the public eye could be, back in 1983. "Do you cry when things go wrong on the job?" "Will you wear a bra in space?" "Do you plan to have children?" Etc. Never mind the unthinkability of being an out lesbian (or bisexual, whatever) in that position at that time.

 

[Moonlit_Angel]

I hadn't really thought about Sally Ride in 20-odd years and was not quite 12 when she made her first shuttle flight, but reading the articles about her death tonight brought back some pretty vivid memories of just how insulting the "journalistic" questions and attitudes aimed at a highly ambitious woman in the public eye could be, back in 1983. "Do you cry when things go wrong on the job?" "Will you wear a bra in space?" "Do you plan to have children?" Etc. Never mind the unthinkability of being an out lesbian (or bisexual, whatever) in that position at that time.

...wow . It's always sad to be reminded that there are people who are really that stupid and pigheaded.

("Will you wear a bra in space?" The hell does that have to do with anything? Of all the topics that can be discussed in relation to someone going into space, whether or not an astronaut's wearing a bra isn't exactly on my list of things I care one bit about. Good grief. And people like that actually had/have careers in journalism?)

Anywho, shame to hear of her passing. She had a bold spirit. May she rest in peace.

 

[Irvine511]

I hadn't really thought about Sally Ride in 20-odd years and was not quite 12 when she made her first shuttle flight, but reading the articles about her death tonight brought back some pretty vivid memories of just how insulting the "journalistic" questions and attitudes aimed at a highly ambitious woman in the public eye could be, back in 1983. "Do you cry when things go wrong on the job?" "Will you wear a bra in space?" "Do you plan to have children?" Etc.

i am all for equality and think the genders should be treated equally, but why do we have to pretend that they are the same? why shouldn't we wonder if a woman would cry if she were to, say, bomb Baghdad? and why shouldn't we be concerned that her breasts may get in the way of her making repairs to the international space station? men are not women, nor are women men. the American public has the right to know.

gender equity doesn't mean pretending that the genders are the same, and the way that we affirm that gender does indeed matter is to celebrate traditional marriage by telling Sally Ride's partner that she's no more important in the eyes of the law to than the woman who scooped Sally Ride's ice cream at Baskin Robbins.

gender matters. it makes babies.

 

[yolland]

i am all for equality and think the genders should be treated equally, but why do we have to pretend that they are the same? why shouldn't we wonder if a woman would cry if she were to, say, bomb Baghdad? and why shouldn't we be concerned that her breasts may get in the way of her making repairs to the international space station? men are not women, nor are women men. the American public has the right to know.

gender equity doesn't mean pretending that the genders are the same, and the way that we affirm that gender does indeed matter is to celebrate traditional marriage by telling Sally Ride's partner that she's no more important in the eyes of the law to than the woman who scooped Sally Ride's ice cream at Baskin Robbins.

gender matters. it makes babies.

Your post was so mean it made me cry, so I'm consoling myself with a bar of freeze-dried astronaut ice cream from the NASA museum, which was the only display there I understood, while my husband comes up with a retort for me to post.

In all seriousness, this kind of erasing of gay people's personal lives from public view and record is one of those inevitable corollaries of the 'defense of marriage' movement which its proponents, the less frankly contemptuous ones anyhow, apparently prefer to pretend doesn't exist, or is a totally separate issue. Everything from comfortably strolling down the street holding hands, to death benefits for the person you've shared half your years with...possibilities the rest of us take for granted.

 

[cobl04]

i am all for equality and think the genders should be treated equally, but why do we have to pretend that they are the same? why shouldn't we wonder if a woman would cry if she were to, say, bomb Baghdad? and why shouldn't we be concerned that her breasts may get in the way of her making repairs to the international space station? men are not women, nor are women men. the American public has the right to know.

gender equity doesn't mean pretending that the genders are the same, and the way that we affirm that gender does indeed matter is to celebrate traditional marriage by telling Sally Ride's partner that she's no more important in the eyes of the law to than the woman who scooped Sally Ride's ice cream at Baskin Robbins.

gender matters. it makes babies.

I'd love to see a breakdown of your posts, to see what percentage are sarcastic

 

[BVS]

Can't tell which or whose argument you're referring to, but at a minimum this doesn't sound like a halfway serious attempt to confront it.

You're right, it was an angry reaction to a portion of one person's post. It wasn't even worth it, but it was too late to edit.

 

[MrsSpringsteen]

I was going to start a thread about Sally Ride, figured there'd be little interest. To me she was a pioneer for women and someone for young girls to look up to.

I didn't even know she was gay-that's just not right and fair about her partner. I bet that NASA these days still isn't the most welcoming place for openly gay men and women-what's left of NASA.

 

[martha]

Everything from comfortably strolling down the street holding hands,

This is one of the many things we loved about Flagstaff when we were there a few weeks ago.

 

[yolland]

Hmmm, I probably would've liked that about Flagstaff too, if I could only have found a f*ing place to park. Charming old town with an appealing student/hippie vibe, and obvs the natural environs are fantastic, but getting around and in/out of that place...rrrrggh.

 

[BonosSaint]

I was going to start a thread about Sally Ride, figured there'd be little interest. To me she was a pioneer for women and someone for young girls to look up to.

I didn't even know she was gay-that's just not right and fair about her partner. I bet that NASA these days still isn't the most welcoming place for openly gay men and women-what's left of NASA.

We were talking about Sally Ride today. (Such a great name). I thought she was a significant first that resonated with me over the years and while I didn't follow her specifically, I always was interested when she was brought up in the news for something or other, including mentoring the other women astronauts. I felt very bad this morning.

 

[anitram]

I hadn't really thought about Sally Ride in 20-odd years and was not quite 12 when she made her first shuttle flight, but reading the articles about her death tonight brought back some pretty vivid memories of just how insulting the "journalistic" questions and attitudes aimed at a highly ambitious woman in the public eye could be, back in 1983. "Do you cry when things go wrong on the job?" "Will you wear a bra in space?" "Do you plan to have children?" Etc. Never mind the unthinkability of being an out lesbian (or bisexual, whatever) in that position at that time.

I think her own words in response to those questions are probably best quoted here and relate perfectly to all those who continue to be against gay marriage:

“It’s too bad this is such a big deal. It is too bad our society isn’t further along.”

 

[martha]

Hmmm, I probably would've liked that about Flagstaff too, if I could only have found a f*ing place to park. Charming old town with an appealing student/hippie vibe, and obvs the natural environs are fantastic, but getting around and in/out of that place...rrrrggh.

We had no trouble. You should have let the man drive.

Spoiler

Oh wait, I drove.

 

[yolland]

I think her own words in response to those questions are probably best quoted here and relate perfectly to all those who continue to be against gay marriage:

“It’s too bad this is such a big deal. It is too bad our society isn’t further along.”

Well, but see, it is a big deal, because critics of these radical social experiments have been silenced. For example, my high school history teacher who frequently condemned the "dumb broads" (i.e. feminists, Gloria Steinem being his favorite example) trying to sell us on the idea that women could seriously compete with men in the professions, or my Freshman Seminar prof who often reminisced about the halcyon years when men could enjoy real scholarly discussion without whiny, unserious women and minorities butting in--they wouldn't be able to get away with those expressions of conscience now, nor with their harmless practice of calling on female students (especially ones challenging them) using "sweetie" and "honey." Instead, the iron fist of the law stifles resistance to this radical alteration of 5000 years of tradition, and well-meaning male liberals are duped into thinking they're standing for "justice" and "equality" by rejecting such voices of dissent. Who is really being disrespected here?

 

[martha]

It's gettin' uppity in here.

 

[trojanchick99]

Target continues to not suck.

http://thenewcivilrightsmovement.co...ad-is-kinda-awesome/politics/2012/07/26/44613

 

[MrsSpringsteen]

Target was boycotted a couple of years ago for donating over a hundred grand to a GOP candidate for governor in MN- he was anti gay marriage.

 

[corianderstem]

I can't remember what I'd recently read about that. Like, yeah, the guy had some unfortunate political stances, but does that mean Target gave him money BECAUSE of that? No.

I think it says more that their direct actions as a company (i.e., the way they treat gay employees - don't they have inclusive policies?) than the donations they made. because let's be honest - lots of businesses and rich folks support Republicans because of financial stuff, not necessarily because they're making a stance about same-sex marriage.

It's like a thread I read about on a site discussing Starbucks decision to just go with local laws and not prohibit people from bringing in concealed weapons (where permissible by law). All the pro-gun commenters were all "Whoo-hoo! Now I'm going to go support Starbucks!" And then someone mentioned "Hey, aren't they a big liberal west coast company who just made a public stance supporting same-sex marriage?" And well, they just didn't know what to do with themselves.

Not every move by a company is a political statement. I would guess a lot of companies end up "supporting" conservative types of things because as a business, financially, there are reasons to Go Republican.

(Or maybe because you don't want your baristas having to tell people with guns they can't be in the store.)

I hope this post isn't all disjointed and junk - the site crashed (it may have just been my computer, because it randomly decides to not let me on sites every few hours) while I was editing.

 

[the iron horse]

As much as I completely disagree with Chick-Fil-A's stance, I have strong reservations against the City of Boston actively working to ensure that no CFA branches open in the city for that reason.

As a Christian I believe the Bible teaches that marriage is between a man and a woman.

That said. I daily use products and services from companies that openly promote the homosexual agenda.

I'm not out trying to boycott them.

I don't understand the intolerance that many on the left seem to exhibit.

It is scary that this society seems so ready to censor or punish people that
disgaree with what they consider correct thought.