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Old 01-23-2012, 05:00 PM   #161
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Old 01-23-2012, 05:33 PM   #162
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Oh man, I sure hope there is a Proposition 8, otherwise it will be activist legislation.


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Old 01-24-2012, 09:47 AM   #163
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Haugen announces stance on marriage equality

OLYMPIA – Sen. Mary Margaret Haugen issued the following statement today following the Senate hearing on Senate Bill 6239 to allow same-sex marriage:

“For several weeks now, I have heard from the people of my district. They’ve shared what’s in their hearts and minds.

“I have received many letters, emails, phone calls, very heartfelt, from both sides of the issue. I’ve also received a number of very negative comments from both sides.

“For some people, this is a simple issue. I envy them. It has not been simple or easy for me.

“To some degree, this is generational. Years ago I took exception to my parents’ beliefs on certain social issues, and today my children take exception to some of mine. Times change, even if it makes us uncomfortable. I think we should all be uncomfortable sometime. None of us knows everything, and it’s important to have our beliefs questioned. Only one being in this world is omniscient, and it’s not me.

“I have very strong Christian beliefs, and personally I have always said when I accepted the Lord, I became more tolerant of others. I stopped judging people and try to live by the Golden Rule. This is part of my decision. I do not believe it is my role to judge others, regardless of my personal beliefs. It’s not always easy to do that. For me personally, I have always believed in traditional marriage between a man and a woman. That is what I believe, to this day.

“But this issue isn’t about just what I believe. It’s about respecting others, including people who may believe differently than I. It’s about whether everyone has the same opportunities for love and companionship and family and security that I have enjoyed.

“For as long as I have been alive, living in my country has been about having the freedom to live according to our own personal and religious beliefs, and having people respect that freedom.

“Not everyone will agree with my position. I understand and respect that. I also trust that people will remember that we need to respect each other’s beliefs. All of us enjoy the benefits of being Americans, but none of us holds a monopoly on what it means to be an American. Ours is truly a big tent, and while the tent may grow and shrink according to the political winds of the day, it should never shrink when it comes to our rights as individuals.

“Do I respect people who feel differently? Do I not feel they should have the right to do as they want? My beliefs dictate who I am and how I live, but I don’t see where my believing marriage is between a man and a woman gives me the right to decide that for everyone else.

“I’ve weighed many factors in arriving at this decision, and one of them was erased when the legislation heard today included an amendment to clearly provide for the rights of a church to choose not to marry a couple if that marriage contradicts the church’s view of its teachings. That’s important, and it helped shape my decision.

“My preference would be to put this issue on the ballot and give all Washingtonians the opportunity to wrestle with this issue, to search their hearts as I have, and to make the choice for themselves. But I do not know that there are the votes to put it to a ballot measure. So, forced to make a choice, my choice is to allow all men and women in our state to enjoy the same privileges that are so important in my life. I will vote in favor of marriage equality.

“I know this announcement makes me the so-called 25th vote, the vote that ensures passage. That’s neither here nor there. If I were the first or the seventh or the 28th vote, my position would not be any different. I happen to be the 25th because I insisted on taking this much time to hear from my constituents and to sort it out for myself, to reconcile my religious beliefs with my beliefs as an American, as a legislator, and as a wife and mother who cannot deny to others the joys and benefits I enjoy.

“This is the right vote and it is the vote I will cast when this measure comes to the floor.”
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Old 01-24-2012, 10:04 AM   #164
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Oh man, I sure hope there is a Proposition 8, otherwise it will be activist legislation.


you can't make this up:

Quote:
Olympia, WA — The National Organization for Marriage (NOM) today pledged to work with allies in Washington State to mount a referendum campaign to ensure that voters have the final say on the definition of marriage in Washington. Legislation, House Bill 2516 and Senate Bill 6239, has been introduced to abandon Washington's historic definition of marriage as the union of one man and one woman, thus imposing same-sex marriage on the state.

"NOM will not stand by and let activist politicians redefine marriage, the bedrock of civilization, without voters having a say," said Brian Brown, NOM's president. "Just as we mounted a People's Veto in Maine and were responsible for qualifying Proposition 8 to the ballot in California, we will make sure that voters in Washington have the ability to decide the definition of marriage for themselves."

NOM was the largest contributor to the Proposition 8 ballot qualification and led the Question 1 People's Veto campaign in Maine. Both measures passed, overturning gay marriage and preserving marriage as the union of one man and one woman.

"Thirty one states have voted on the definition of marriage and everyone voted to define marriage as the union of one man and one woman," Brown said. "Not only will we mount a successful referendum campaign, we will hold every Washington legislator accountable for his or her vote. We'll challenge Republicans in primaries, and we will take on Democrats in the General Election and make sure that their constituents know they tried to abandon the most important social institution ever devised without voters being given a say in the matter."

NOM Blog
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Old 01-24-2012, 10:07 AM   #165
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I'm sure all the conservatives here will support activist politicians since their whole MO is that this should be done legislatively.
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Old 01-24-2012, 10:18 AM   #166
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REALLY? They'd be better off asking Kim K. OK, let me get this down..Democrat who can't keep it in pants =amoral country hating marriage destroyer. Republican who can't keep it in pants=victim of biased librul media patriotic savior of marriage.



NOM wants Newt to ‘save’ marriage? Hilarity ensues | Pam's House Blend

By: Alvin McEwen Sunday January 22, 2012 4:12 pm


Of all the stories spinning about Newt Gingrich’s victory in the SC Republican primary, the strangest has to be the congratulations he received from the National Organization for Marriage. From the NOM president Brian Brown, courtesy of the organization’s blog:

It is now clear that the Republican Party will nominate a candidate who is strongly committed to preserving marriage as the union of one man and one woman,” Brown said. “We have succeeded in making the preservation of marriage a key issue in this race, and we will continue to do so throughout the primary season, and into the general election against President Obama.”

NOM is dancing in the streets because Gingrich was one of the candidates to sign it’s silly “Marriage Pledge.”

However, NOM seems to omit the simple fact that Newt Gingrich is a man with sordid history of marriage rivaling that of Henry VIII of England.

In all honesty, it is not known whether or not NOM has commented on Gingrich’s three marriages or the interesting stories coming from those three marriages such as:

He cheated on his first wife with his then second wife.

He cheated on his second wife with his now third wife. And this was going on while he was pursuing the impeachment of Bill Clinton chiefly because of indiscretions with Monica Lewinsky?

He also allegedly wanted an open marriage with his second wife because he felt that there was ” more than enough Newt” to go around.

And I won’t even mention the ugliness about the divorce proceedings during the cancer of his first wife.

The fact that NOM wraps its homophobic talons around Gingrich regardless of his controversial marital history speaks to the further lack of integrity of the organization’s message. And makes one wonder does NOM really want to preserve marriage or keep it away from those allegedly “dirty homosexuals” regardless of assurances by former NOM head Maggie Gallagher that NOM is not interested in being anti-gay?

I mean come on. Are gays and lesbians really putting marriage in danger or does the danger truly lie with the fact that some folks – one who shall remain nameless – can’t keep it in their pants.

It’s obvious that if Gingrich is interested in, as NOM claims, preserving marriage as the union between one man and one woman, he seems to think that he is exempt from the rule.

And it’s even more obvious that NOM’s silence regarding his, shall we say, indiscretions is signalling that the organization is turning a blind eye to his past behavior.

I knew NOM was fake, highly hypocritical, and full of empty platitudes but DAMN!
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Old 01-24-2012, 10:20 AM   #167
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we've moved from "activist judges" to "activist legislators." soon, it will be "activist citizenry." and then there's the whole "rights of religious people to discriminate against people they don't like" will come up. i spend a good amount of time on anti-gay blogs, and the newest line is that if you are a married hetero in a state that has marriage equality, then you are not actually married any more because you no longer belong to an exclusively heterosexual legal arrangement, that filling in lines intended for "Party A" and "Party B" instead of "bride" and "groom" has suddenly caused your marriage to evaporate and, yes, you guessed it, it's the gays who are the real bigots and bullies.
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Old 01-24-2012, 10:29 AM   #168
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Originally Posted by MrsSpringsteen
REALLY? They'd be better off asking Kim K. OK, let me get this down..Democrat who can't keep it in pants =amoral country hating marriage destroyer. Republican who can't keep it in pants=victim of biased librul media patriotic savior of marriage.

NOM wants Newt to ‘save’ marriage? Hilarity ensues | Pam's House Blend

By: Alvin McEwen Sunday January 22, 2012 4:12 pm

Of all the stories spinning about Newt Gingrich’s victory in the SC Republican primary, the strangest has to be the congratulations he received from the National Organization for Marriage. From the NOM president Brian Brown, courtesy of the organization’s blog:

It is now clear that the Republican Party will nominate a candidate who is strongly committed to preserving marriage as the union of one man and one woman,” Brown said. “We have succeeded in making the preservation of marriage a key issue in this race, and we will continue to do so throughout the primary season, and into the general election against President Obama.”

NOM is dancing in the streets because Gingrich was one of the candidates to sign it’s silly “Marriage Pledge.”

However, NOM seems to omit the simple fact that Newt Gingrich is a man with sordid history of marriage rivaling that of Henry VIII of England.

In all honesty, it is not known whether or not NOM has commented on Gingrich’s three marriages or the interesting stories coming from those three marriages such as:

He cheated on his first wife with his then second wife.

He cheated on his second wife with his now third wife. And this was going on while he was pursuing the impeachment of Bill Clinton chiefly because of indiscretions with Monica Lewinsky?

He also allegedly wanted an open marriage with his second wife because he felt that there was ” more than enough Newt” to go around.

And I won’t even mention the ugliness about the divorce proceedings during the cancer of his first wife.

The fact that NOM wraps its homophobic talons around Gingrich regardless of his controversial marital history speaks to the further lack of integrity of the organization’s message. And makes one wonder does NOM really want to preserve marriage or keep it away from those allegedly “dirty homosexuals” regardless of assurances by former NOM head Maggie Gallagher that NOM is not interested in being anti-gay?

I mean come on. Are gays and lesbians really putting marriage in danger or does the danger truly lie with the fact that some folks – one who shall remain nameless – can’t keep it in their pants.

It’s obvious that if Gingrich is interested in, as NOM claims, preserving marriage as the union between one man and one woman, he seems to think that he is exempt from the rule.

And it’s even more obvious that NOM’s silence regarding his, shall we say, indiscretions is signalling that the organization is turning a blind eye to his past behavior.

I knew NOM was fake, highly hypocritical, and full of empty platitudes but DAMN!
Who needs the Onion when reality is this funny?
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Old 01-24-2012, 10:33 AM   #169
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It's perfect because, obviously, Gingrich is a double blow. "Sanctity of marriage" - haha. "One man and one woman" - hahahahaha.
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Old 01-24-2012, 02:39 PM   #170
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i spend a good amount of time on anti-gay blogs, and the newest line is that if you are a married hetero in a state that has marriage equality, then you are not actually married any more because you no longer belong to an exclusively heterosexual legal arrangement, that filling in lines intended for "Party A" and "Party B" instead of "bride" and "groom" has suddenly caused your marriage to evaporate and, yes, you guessed it, it's the gays who are the real bigots and bullies.
Funny, I have absolutely no memory of my parents ever having to change any information on any forms they filled out for whatever reason after same sex marriage became legal in my state. None. At all.

Between that new anti-gay line and the people at NOM wanting Newt to actually "save marriage", I just have two questions:

1, how fucking stupid are these people? Seriously, it's a wonder they can dress themselves each day.
2, how has the pro-gay rights side not overwhelmingly won the fight against these idiots a long time ago?

Quote:
“For some people, this is a simple issue. I envy them. It has not been simple or easy for me.
I really fail to understand how this issue is that complicated for some people. She says it's generational to some degree-I dunno, my parents never had an issue with supporting letting gay people get married, let alone do anything else. Truly, honestly, of all the issues in the world, this is not one that needs to be debated and questioned to death.

But still, I'm glad she is going to support the legislation.
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Old 01-24-2012, 03:48 PM   #171
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I work with forms
it is usually applicant and spouse
I have never, ever seen the term bride and groom
I have seen husband and wife, used sometimes


and if it is property title vesting, on the Statement of Information they ask for marriage dates, and former marriages, with divorce dates.
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Old 01-24-2012, 05:34 PM   #172
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you can't make this up:
LOL. And love the new userpic.
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Old 01-24-2012, 05:37 PM   #173
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indeed, one can't go to pieces at the death of every foreigner. we'd all be in a state of collapse every time we opened a newspaper.
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Old 01-24-2012, 06:44 PM   #174
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N.J. Legislature to introduce bill legalizing gay marriage | NJ.com

what's interesting is how this might play out politically, and how Democrats see this as an opportunity to actually damage Chris Christie, who will no doubt use this to prove his conservative credentials looking towards 2016, but that's dangerous territory -- kicking gays is increasingly likely to alienate the moderates Christie would have to court to ever win a national election, even if it means making him a little less, erm, "regional" to the base.
Looks like he's trying to punt to a referendum instead and spare himself the trouble.

Newark Star-Ledger, Jan. 24
Quote:
Gov. Chris Christie called today for the Legislature to put on the fall ballot a voter referendum on whether to legalize gay marriage, which Democratic lawmakers have made a top priority. If successful, the referendum would amend the state Constitution and trump the current civil unions law. He urged all Republicans in the Legislature to put the matter to voters, but promised to veto the measure if it came to him in the form of a bill.

"I think this is not an issue that should rest solely in my hands, or the hands of the Senate President or the Speaker or the other 118 members of the Legislature," he said. "Let's let the people of New Jersey decide what is right for the state...Let's make sure that political maneuvering is not what judges this and let's make sure this is not someone just trying to have fun and create a campaign issue," he said. "The institution of marriage if too serious to be treated like a political football...I would hope the Legislature would be willing to trust the people the way I'm willing to trust the people," Christie said, reiterating his personal opposition to gay marriage. "I think it's the institution of marriage and it's bigger than just a word, it's hundreds of years of tradition both legally and societally and religiously and that's what I stand up in protecting."
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Old 01-24-2012, 08:54 PM   #175
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Looks like he's trying to punt to a referendum instead and spare himself the trouble.


yup. he's giving himself coverage from the wrath of the base for 2016 while at the same time trying to appear moderate to the middle.

i do wonder if people realize just how much the goalposts have been moved. aren't these 118 people in Trenton voted into office to do exactly things like this?
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Old 01-25-2012, 12:32 AM   #176
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^ I remember one thing I found rather jolting about the Proposition 8 post-election struggle was the frequent use by SSM opponents of rhetoric to the effect of 'violating our Constitutional rights as Americans to vote on fundamental values of our society,' etc. I'm sure most of them were just repeating a line they'd been sold without actually understanding its meaning, but whoever put it out there surely knew full well that the US Constitution doesn't grant anyone the right to a referendum on anything, much less guarantees that courts won't annul referenda results they find unconstitutional where state constitutions do provide for them. This "activist legislators"/"let the people decide" strategy reminds me of that.
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Old 01-26-2012, 12:48 PM   #177
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I didn't realize he'd used this analogy.

Philadelphia Inquirer, Jan. 26
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As we reported, Christie said: "The fact of the matter is, I think people would have been happy to have a referendum on civil rights rather than fighting and dying in the streets in the South...It was our political institutions that were holding things back. I don't think there's anything necessarily so special about this particular issue that it must be handled by a Legislature. Why would that be?...I don't understand how anybody could argue with letting the people decide this issue."
It was state legislatures that were holding desegregation back? Voter referenda (voters being whites only, of course) would've sped the process up? WTF is he talking about? And why the hell would someone personally opposed to same-sex marriage invite such a comparison in the first place?
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Old 01-26-2012, 01:00 PM   #178
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I didn't realize he'd used this analogy.

Philadelphia Inquirer, Jan. 26

It was state legislatures that were holding desegregation back? Voter referenda (voters being whites only, of course) would've sped the process up? WTF is he talking about? And why the hell would someone personally opposed to same-sex marriage invite such a comparison in the first place?
There is a train of thought (not altogether illegitimate) that says that, had citizenry had the chance to vote on the issue of abortion (for example), there would have been more of a national consensus on the issue, one way or another, via the whole idea of "changing hearts and minds via state/national referenda". I see the point. Had citizens been forced to go to the polls and vote for or against their black neighbors, to look at the civil rights movement in the sixties, would change have happened faster? Did a legislative act undermine the need for Americans to have to change their minds? Maybe it would have, maybe it wouldn't have. It's a somewhat useless train of thought to pursue as it applies to the past, but it's a useful question to ask for the future.

The question is whether an issue is so important that it's worth ignoring "the will of the people" (and, in the mind of some, overriding the notion of democracy) because of a greater moral question that cannot be ignored.
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Old 01-26-2012, 01:47 PM   #179
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don't people vote for their representatives? isn't that why we have a representative democracy and not mob rule?

how would Mississippi or Louisiana vote today if the question of interracial marriage came to a vote? what about in 1990? 1980?
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Old 01-26-2012, 02:02 PM   #180
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It is funny how people often forget things like that. Our founding fathers were just as terrified of too much control by your average everyday citizen as they were by the idea of the government being too powerful. Add in the idea of people they didn't see as "citizens" getting their rightful power and boy, did that leave them tossing and turning at night.
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