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Old 05-13-2012, 11:36 AM   #581
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Originally Posted by anitram
Jeez, who in this day and age still thinks that homosexuality is a choice?
Probably about half of the population of the United States
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Old 05-13-2012, 11:41 AM   #582
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Well, I said that the president shouldn' have said anything that would alienate certain segments of the population and you interjected slavery into the equation - which really isn't the same thing.

As for Polygamists - why should they be discriminated against? Why should gay marriage be legal while polygamy isn't?

btw - thanks for the compliment - I think that you're very smart yourself....
Do you not believe that views of slavery being wrong didn't alienate certain segments of the population? Simple question.


I want you to take off the Bill O'Reiley glasses and look at this question from a logical standpoint:
Quote:
Why should gay marriage be legal while polygamy isn't?
^What part of this question makes any sense to you? Could you subsitute straight marriage into the question and it still make sense? Let's try it:

Why should straight marriage be legal while polygamy isn't? Nope, that line of logic doesn't work at all. Two people getting married isn't the same as one person marrying 12 people.

Lets try and make stronger arguments please.
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Old 05-13-2012, 12:03 PM   #583
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Originally Posted by digitize View Post
Probably about half of the population of the United States
That is pretty damn disturbing..
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Old 05-13-2012, 12:03 PM   #584
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Old 05-13-2012, 01:45 PM   #585
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Originally Posted by AchtungBono View Post
Of course being gay is a choice - no one is forcing you to love someone of your own sex, you do it because you want to - that's what a free choice is.

Take me for example, I have a lot of attractive female co-workers in my office and the fact that I don't sleep with anyone of them is because I choose not to, nor am I inclined to - BUT if I wanted to I would......because that's my choice.
I suggest you read a modern child development textbook and actually look into the brain's development in the womb. You might end up thinking otherwise.
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Old 05-13-2012, 02:32 PM   #586
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Originally Posted by AchtungBono View Post
Of course being gay is a choice - no one is forcing you to love someone of your own sex, you do it because you want to - that's what a free choice is.

Take me for example, I have a lot of attractive female co-workers in my office and the fact that I don't sleep with anyone of them is because I choose not to, nor am I inclined to - BUT if I wanted to I would......because that's my choice.
I am sorry that some people are rude and disrespectful to you because they think what you believe is wrong.

I think and hope we all can have a discussion based on what we believe and/ or think without resorting to a discussion style that discourages exchanges and turns to many posters taking personal shots at others because they have an unpopular opinion in here.
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Old 05-13-2012, 02:45 PM   #587
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I am sorry that some people are rude and disrespectful to you because they think what you believe is wrong.

I think and hope we all can have a discussion based on what we believe and/ or think without resorting to a discussion style that discourages exchanges and turns to many posters taking personal shots at others because they have an unpopular opinion in here.
Don't make me laugh. You're saying we're all being disrespectful when someone believes something that's clearly wrong? There's no such thing as believing or not believing whether being gay is a choice or not. It's been clearly proven in MANY studies that it's not a choice. So it's ignorant to believe otherwise. That has nothing to do with respect. Well, actually it does. It says a lot about the respect towards gay people. But of course, we're not being anti-gay here.
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And if U2 EVER did Hawkmoon live....and the version from the Lovetown Tour, my uterus would leave my body and fling itself at Bono - for realz.
Don't worry baby, it's gonna be all right. Uncertainty can be a guiding light...
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Old 05-13-2012, 02:45 PM   #588
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now that I've got that ^ out of the way

I'd like to respond to the post

Quote:
Originally Posted by AchtungBono View Post
Of course being gay is a choice - no one is forcing you to love someone of your own sex, you do it because you want to - that's what a free choice is.

Take me for example, I have a lot of attractive female co-workers in my office and the fact that I don't sleep with anyone of them is because I choose not to, nor am I inclined to - BUT if I wanted to I would......because that's my choice.
I understand your point of view, I have heard others express a similar opinion.

and I do agree that you and others can choose to participate in gay behavior,


haven't almost all of us chosen to have a sexual experience with a member of our own sex, ourselves?
if one's body will respond to their own hand, another's hand, or an appliance does that make them gay,
if an altar boy is copulated by a priest does that may them gay?
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Old 05-13-2012, 02:46 PM   #589
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opinion
there's that word again. It's a good one to evoke to justify stupidity
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Old 05-13-2012, 03:41 PM   #590
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I refuse to respect an opinion or belief that is hurtful to others or flat-out wrong.

I might respect you for other reasons and might agree with you on other things, but I'm done with the whole "I respect your opinion" when it comes to stuff like this anymore.

It doesn't mean I hate you, it doesn't even necessarily mean I think you're an idiot. I just cannot respect those beliefs or opinions.

*this is the general "you," but apply as necessary
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Old 05-13-2012, 03:56 PM   #591
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Hah...I'm sure I've said it before, but it's worth stating again. It's absolutely delightful living somewhere where all this reactionary ignorance is settled and nothing more than a distant memory.

I do promise y'all that, contrary to what some of you might think, the world did not end, the sky did not fall, and civilisation did not collapse when the gays got full and equal rights here. Yes, it indeed does get better.

In the meantime, I do get a good laugh at all this tilting at windmills.
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Old 05-13-2012, 04:09 PM   #592
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hello Melon
good to see a second post from you,
it's been awhile, hope you are healthy and all is going well for you.
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Old 05-13-2012, 04:14 PM   #593
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active listening to other opinions, and even empathizing with that person, does not mean you agree with that opinion. Hopefully you can get to a place of dialogue, because one feels that they have not been dismissed at the onset.


Opinions are changing. Some of the old timers in here may recall Aeon, respectful dialogue with him and his "wrong" opinions most likely contributed to his current opinion.
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Old 05-13-2012, 04:24 PM   #594
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Sorry for breaking the thread, guys.



Quote:
Originally Posted by AchtungBono View Post
Of course being gay is a choice - no one is forcing you to love someone of your own sex, you do it because you want to - that's what a free choice is.

Take me for example, I have a lot of attractive female co-workers in my office and the fact that I don't sleep with anyone of them is because I choose not to, nor am I inclined to - BUT if I wanted to I would......because that's my choice.
In the most respectful way possible I say this: you've said some crazy, uninformed things on this site over the years. This may be one of the most egregious ones.

Being gay is not a choice. Those that are attracted to the same sex - have an attraction in the SAME way that one is attracted to the OPPOSITE sex - are born that way. They're born that way. THEY ARE BORN THAT WAY.
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Old 05-13-2012, 04:37 PM   #595
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AchtungBono

Of course being gay is a choice - no one is forcing you to love someone of your own sex, you do it because you want to - that's what a free choice is.

Take me for example, I have a lot of attractive female co-workers in my office and the fact that I don't sleep with anyone of them is because I choose not to, nor am I inclined to - BUT if I wanted to I would......because that's my choice.
Why don't you try talking to someone who is gay? Or are you afraid you'll catch it?
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Old 05-13-2012, 04:43 PM   #596
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active listening to other opinions, and even empathizing with that person, does not mean you agree with that opinion. Hopefully you can get to a place of dialogue, because one feels that they have not been dismissed at the onset.
Yes, I listen. But when all you get in response is references to the Bible, or comments about "ramifications," or mentions of polygamy with nothing in follow up as explanation, there's no more dialogue to be had.

Still waiting for many people (not just here) to give a reason that homosexuality and/or same-sex marriage is "wrong" that doesn't have its basis in religion.
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Old 05-13-2012, 04:50 PM   #597
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Yes, I listen. But when all you get in response is references to the Bible, or comments about "ramifications," or mentions of polygamy with nothing in follow up as explanation, there's no more dialogue to be had.
Do you remember AEON?
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Old 05-13-2012, 04:55 PM   #598
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Not specifically as to your reference above. I can only assume AEON was actively participating in that dialogue, rather than ignoring questions others asked of him.


Edited to add: geez, I probably edited this dumb post 8 times. Oy.
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Old 05-13-2012, 05:19 PM   #599
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Still waiting for many people (not just here) to give a reason that homosexuality and/or same-sex marriage is "wrong" that doesn't have its basis in religion.
When you said that, I decided to look around for any non-religious arguments against homosexuality, if it existed. I came across some forums that mentioned Camille Paglia and how she believes no one is born gay. So I Googled Paglia and her theory and found out in the early 90s, she wrote a book called "Tramps and Vamps" which included an argument against homosexuality. I found a website that had bits and pieces of that essay. Basically, she seems to be saying homosexuals have a fear and disdain for the opposite sex - which is weird for her to say because Paglia is lesbian herself. What is she, a self-hating lesbian? Sure sounds like it. Also, Paglia blames gays for the AIDS epidemic, and not unsafe sex. So she must be out of her mind.

Anyway, that was one of the arguments against homosexuality that is not related to religion. As for gay marriage, some people were saying it would cause a strain on social security - as if there isn't one already!

So yeah, the big argument against homosexuality and SSM remains to be religion.
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Old 05-13-2012, 05:24 PM   #600
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Huh, that's, uh ... interesting, Ms. Paglia. Thanks for Googling. Obviously, since I'm so fed up with "discussing," I sure wasn't going to Google it on my own.

I find melon's occasional posts from a saner land to be both reassuring and maddening .... but only because I'm so envious that such a place, where this is not a Big Deal, exists.

I'll use his post as my "happy place" on the topic.
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