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Old 09-30-2007, 10:26 AM   #21
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Originally posted by sulawesigirl4
Surprisingly, another guy at the table brought up the war and Bush and this hardened combat soldier spit out with disgust, "I hate that bastard!" .
Is he a Black Sabbath fan?

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Old 10-01-2007, 01:36 AM   #22
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I have the blessing to meet many soldiers, active, Guard, and reservist...and I have only met a few that dislike Bush and think the war is a mistake.

My unit lost over 17 soldiers in their last deployment. Support for the war is amazing. As a matter of fact, most want to go back.
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Old 10-01-2007, 07:50 AM   #23
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Is it support for the war or dedication and commitment to duty and to each other? And I have nothing but complete unwavering admiration for the latter, and would never fault any of you for the former either. I just think it is completely offensive to call anyone a "phony" soldier because they think and express certain thoughts about this war. You may as well go take a you know what on their graves. How dare he? The military is made up of intelligent, thoughtful men and women, and that's the way it should be.
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Old 10-01-2007, 07:56 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally posted by AEON
I have the blessing to meet many soldiers, active, Guard, and reservist...and I have only met a few that dislike Bush and think the war is a mistake.

My unit lost over 17 soldiers in their last deployment. Support for the war is amazing. As a matter of fact, most want to go back.
Don't you think some of that is out of a sense of duty? Bush is the Commander in Chief, there are probably guys who would choose not to openly criticize the guy, whatever their private feelings may be.

I still say Rush Limbaugh has no business calling anyone a phony soldier. Not saying he can't say it - I'm a free-speech guy myself, whether I agree with what's said or not.
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Old 10-01-2007, 08:06 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally posted by MrsSpringsteen
Is it support for the war or dedication and commitment to duty and to each other?
I believe it is both. Most of the men I serve with believe we are making a positive difference over there.
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Old 10-01-2007, 08:12 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally posted by AEON

Most of the men I serve with believe we are making a positive difference over there.
I understand that-but how does that preclude certain criticisms? You can believe you are making a difference but still see what is wrong and what is failing. I can't believe that any soldier would defend these comments by Rush Limbaugh or any similar comments (not saying you are, just making a general statement), and honestly I would be very disappointed in them if they did.

And that would be men and women, correct?
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Old 10-01-2007, 11:24 AM   #27
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i think the better question would be why does anyone pay attention to rush limbaugh anymore anyways?
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Old 10-01-2007, 01:11 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally posted by MrsSpringsteen


I understand that-but how does that preclude certain criticisms? You can believe you are making a difference but still see what is wrong and what is failing. I can't believe that any soldier would defend these comments by Rush Limbaugh or any similar comments (not saying you are, just making a general statement), and honestly I would be very disappointed in them if they did.

And that would be men and women, correct?
I'm not exactly a Rush fan. From what I've heard he is generally very supportive of the Armed Forces - so I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt on his comment.

I am of the opinion that the soldiers shouldn't talk to the press (or anyone else for that matter). The press is looking for something that will grab a reader...even if they have to quote a 19 year olf frustrated Private First Class who is tired of cleaning latrines because he has poor attitude.
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Old 10-01-2007, 01:23 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally posted by AEON

I am of the opinion that the soldiers shouldn't talk to the press (or anyone else for that matter)
Wow, so they should take some sort of vow of silence? What grabs a reader is moral courage and honesty.

And I think anyone who is generally supportive of the armed forces would never make such a comment in the first place.
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Old 10-01-2007, 01:28 PM   #30
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Privates up to the top ranks shouldn't have freedom of speech? Wow, your views of military get better and better...
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Old 10-01-2007, 01:29 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally posted by MrsSpringsteen


What grabs a reader is moral courage and honesty.
Yeah....right....those stories always make the front page.
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Old 10-01-2007, 01:30 PM   #32
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Media Matters

On September 27, several members of Congress denounced Rush Limbaugh for, as Media Matters for America documented, calling service members who advocate U.S. withdrawal from Iraq "phony soldiers" on the September 26 broadcast of his nationally syndicated radio show. Reps. Frank Pallone (D-NJ) and Jan Schakowsky (D-IL) made speeches on the House floor responding to Limbaugh; Sen. Jim Webb (D-VA) made his comments on the September 27 edition of MSNBC's Countdown with Keith Olbermann; and Reps. Chris Van Hollen (D-MD) and Patrick J. Murphy (D-PA) issued statements denouncing Limbaugh's comments.

On the House floor, Pallone stated: "Yesterday, Limbaugh called service members who support a withdrawal from Iraq 'phony soldiers.' " Pallone added: "Last month, seven soldiers from the U.S. Army 82nd Airborne Division wrote an op-ed in The New York Times questioning our continued war efforts, but also stating, and I quote: 'We need not talk about our morale. As committed soldiers, we will see this mission through.' Now, since publication of that op-ed, two of the soldiers have died. As this op-ed shows, soldiers may question the war, but that does not mean that they are any less committed to their mission."

Schakowsky stated: "How dare Rush Limbaugh label anyone who has served in the military as a quote, 'phony soldier,' unquote? How dare he say that his views on Iraq formed in the comfort of his radio studio are legitimate while the views of those whose opinions were forged on the battlefield are not?" She added: "These are soldiers like Brandon Friedman, a former rifle platoon leader in the Army's 101st Airborne Division who fought in Afghanistan in 2002 and commanded troops in Iraq. He says quote, 'The escalation of the war is failing and now the mission must change.' 'The fact is,' he says, 'the Iraq war has kept us from devoting assets we need to fight terrorists worldwide as evidenced by the fact that Osama bin Laden is still on the loose and Al Qaeda has been able to rebuild.' " Schakowsky asked: "Is Brandon Friedman a phony?"

On Countdown, Webb said: "I really regret Mr. Limbaugh saying things like that. You know, we have a political diversity inside the military just like we do in the country." He later added: "I really react strongly when people politicize the service of our military people. They have a wide variety of political viewpoints, from all the way for this to all the way against it, and we need to respect that."

Murphy, an Iraq war veteran, said in a statement posted on Huffington Post:

"When someone like Rush Limbaugh says that soldiers who disagree with the failed strategies of President Bush, Vice President Cheney and Donald Rumsfeld are "phony soldiers," you have to consider the source.

Rush Limbaugh, who, in January, called Vietnam veteran Senator Chuck Hagel (R-NE) "Senator Betrayus" for disagreeing with President Bush, has made no secret of his disdain for those who serve and speak out. Where was Rush Limbaugh when it came time to serve his country?

What's more, where was Limbaugh's outrage when Max Cleland, a Senator who left three of his limbs in Vietnam was smeared on television? Where was Limbaugh when Senator John Kerry's (D-MA) service was called into question in the form of millions of dollars in campaign ads?

My service was questioned last year during my campaign for Congress. Fortunately, the swift-boat attack on me didn't stick because people in my district in Bucks County, Pennsylvania and across America know that if someone wears the uniform and serves their country they've earned our respect regardless of political party.

Sadly, the political debate in this country has devolved into who can be more outraged at the latest smear attempt on those who should be thanked and praised for devoted service. Rush Limbaugh's phony outrage and derisive words call into contrast that which we all must honor: our Armed Forces currently fighting for their lives and our freedom all across the world. We need to be vigilant and speak out against those who question the value of that service -- and that goes for people on the right and the left. "

Van Hollen said in a statement: "Rush Limbaugh's personal attack on our men and women in uniform is reprehensible. It minimizes the sacrifice our troops in Iraq and their families are making and has no place in the public discourse. Rush Limbaugh owes our military and their families an apology for his hurtful comments that minimize their service to our country"
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Old 10-01-2007, 01:30 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar
Privates up to the top ranks shouldn't have freedom of speech? Wow, your views of military get better and better...
I wouldn't outlaw it, but I discourage it.
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Old 10-01-2007, 01:35 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally posted by AEON

Yeah....right....those stories always make the front page.
I'm talking about the moral courage and honesty to speak up and out about certain aspects of the war in the face of enormous pressure not to do so. There is more than one definition of moral courage, and moral courage is not exclusive to the battlefield.
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Old 10-01-2007, 01:35 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally posted by AEON


I'm not exactly a Rush fan. From what I've heard he is generally very supportive of the Armed Forces - so I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt on his comment.

I am of the opinion that the soldiers shouldn't talk to the press (or anyone else for that matter). The press is looking for something that will grab a reader...even if they have to quote a 19 year olf frustrated Private First Class who is tired of cleaning latrines because he has poor attitude.
well... this might be off topic, but while i'm certainly for freedom of the media, it's clear that the way america gets it's news doesn't work. how can we trust a news system that places more value on ratings and subcriptions than on integrity?
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Old 10-01-2007, 01:39 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally posted by AEON


I wouldn't outlaw it, but I discourage it.
Well I'm glad because your views are downright scary.
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Old 10-01-2007, 01:53 PM   #37
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Originally posted by AEON


Yeah....right....those stories always make the front page.


you mean like Jessica Lynch or Pat Tillman?
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Old 10-01-2007, 01:55 PM   #38
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Originally posted by Headache in a Suitcase


well... this might be off topic, but while i'm certainly for freedom of the media, it's clear that the way america gets it's news doesn't work. how can we trust a news system that places more value on ratings and subcriptions than on integrity?


PBS and NPR.
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Old 10-01-2007, 02:06 PM   #39
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Originally posted by Irvine511




PBS and NPR.
that's funny....
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Old 10-01-2007, 02:20 PM   #40
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Originally posted by AEON


that's funny....


they are, hands down, the best news available for precisely the reason that Headache mentioned -- they are beholden to NO ONE and do not have to worry about advertiser dollars.

but i suppose you're right -- reality does have a well-known liberal bias.
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