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Old 12-08-2006, 10:14 AM   #1
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Rudy Giuliani for President

http://www.rudyforpresidentblog.com/



What do you think? Will he run? Could he win? Will the Republicans let him run?

I personally think he is pretty much the only Republican with a solid chance of beating the Democrats. And I would vote for him if he decides to run, even though I generally hate Republicans... but I was amazed by the way he handled September 11 when I lived in NYC.

As for the Democrats, all rumors point to a Hillary vs. Obama primary. Sorry for being naive, but I find it hard to believe that the U.S. population is ready to have either (i) its first woman or (ii) its first African-American as President.
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Old 12-08-2006, 10:17 AM   #2
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He won't pander to the Christian right, and that's the only way a Republican will win these days...

All you have to do is say you are against ____, or for ____ and you get their vote. You really don't even have to follow through.
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Old 12-08-2006, 11:08 AM   #3
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Rudy Giuliani most likely would certainly not be a bad president, a change from what we've got now. If we have to have a Republican president I hope it's Giuliani. I don't know if the recent election means a rejection of the Christian right by the majority of the voters, who prefer a centrist in the White House, IMO. It might work to Giuliani's advantage that he doesn't bow down to these people.
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Old 12-08-2006, 11:19 AM   #4
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Rudy is an interesting candidate. He'll get quite a number of moderate dems to cross over and vote for him, but he'll lose that amount and more in far right, evangelical republicans, who will have to be nearly dragged to the polls to vote for him. Similar scenario with McCain. And make no mistake, this is not a small amount of voters.

So unless the dems put up someone who would scare up the republican base—read, Hillary—they could do well in 2008.

I'll be working for Obama, but if I'm honest, I think the strongest ticket would be Richardson and Obama.
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Old 12-08-2006, 11:33 AM   #5
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I think the era of politicians who have used 9/11 for political gain needs to end.
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Old 12-08-2006, 12:11 PM   #6
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Well, if I recall, Giuliana was a persona non grata lame duck mayor choosing incompetents for important positions and doing his own versions of "Great job, Brownie" (read: Bernie Kerek). It might be interesting to research the totality of his being mayor prior to 9/11. He was great during 9/11. Hopefully we won't be in that position again, but following him prior to 9/11 makes me a little uneasy about him being President. In some ways, he reminds me too much of Bush but in a more urbane package. Don't know that I want to see another divider in the White House quite so soon.

He may get it though. He comes across as a very attractive candidate. We love tough talk.
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Old 12-08-2006, 12:29 PM   #7
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I think even Bush was "great" during 9/11, with high approval ratings. I just don't need to see more campaign speeches and ads invoking 9/11 - it's been overdone already.
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Old 12-08-2006, 12:32 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally posted by BonosSaint
Well, if I recall, Giuliana was a persona non grata lame duck mayor choosing incompetents for important positions and doing his own versions of "Great job, Brownie" (read: Bernie Kerek). It might be interesting to research the totality of his being mayor prior to 9/11. He was great during 9/11. Hopefully we won't be in that position again, but following him prior to 9/11 makes me a little uneasy about him being President. In some ways, he reminds me too much of Bush but in a more urbane package. Don't know that I want to see another divider in the White House quite so soon.

He may get it though. He comes across as a very attractive candidate. We love tough talk.
Well, Rudy was also great as mayor of NYC before 9/11, where his zero tolerance policy was very successful.
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Old 12-08-2006, 12:43 PM   #9
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Pro-choice and pro-gay marriage winning the Republican primary? Hahahaha!!

Good one.
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Old 12-08-2006, 12:48 PM   #10
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Well, Rudy was also great as mayor of NYC before 9/11, where his zero tolerance policy was very successful.

on 9/10/01

he was not popular at all, he was a has been


he will not get the GOP nom
or even be seriously considered for VP



McCain has the best shot for the nom.

But he will have a hard time winning the general election

McCaim’s best shot was in 2000,
when the Rove/Cheney/Bush cabal use the most disgusting tactics to rob him of the nomination.
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Old 12-08-2006, 01:08 PM   #11
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when Rudy's 2nd (3rd?) wife kicked him out, he moved in with a gay couple and a shi-tzu.

Rudy is D.O.A. in South Carolina.
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Old 12-08-2006, 01:39 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally posted by deep



on 9/10/01

he was not popular at all, he was a has been


he will not get the GOP nom
or even be seriously considered for VP



McCain has the best shot for the nom.

But he will have a hard time winning the general election

McCaim’s best shot was in 2000,
when the Rove/Cheney/Bush cabal use the most disgusting tactics to rob him of the nomination.
The Democrats have no strong runners remotely comparable to McCain. As long as McCain gets his party's nomination, he will win the general election. Hillary and Obama would not stand a chance against McCain, especially when the country really focus's on the two contenders after the primaries.

Winning the Republican nomination will be easier now that the Republicans have suffered such a heavy defeat in Congress. The upside to such a defeat is that its a wake up call to those who either did not vote, or thought they could afford to go with candidate a or b in 2008. For the Republicans now, the issue becomes more about electiblity and defeating the Democrats rather than ones personal preference or ideology for a particular candidate. In addition, the party "elites" and key fundraisers had already started to line up behind him before the November elections.

The Democrats will do their best to go after McCain, but going after McCain won't be like going after W.
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Old 12-08-2006, 04:01 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally posted by LPU2
Rudy is an interesting candidate. He'll get quite a number of moderate dems to cross over and vote for him, but he'll lose that amount and more in far right, evangelical republicans, who will have to be nearly dragged to the polls to vote for him. Similar scenario with McCain. And make no mistake, this is not a small amount of voters.

So unless the dems put up someone who would scare up the republican base—read, Hillary—they could do well in 2008.

I'll be working for Obama, but if I'm honest, I think the strongest ticket would be Richardson and Obama.
Who else could the Christian right vote for though, if not the republican candidate? Will they just not vote? Wouldn't that essentially be handing the election to the certainly more liberal democrats?
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Old 12-08-2006, 04:08 PM   #14
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Originally posted by STING2


The Democrats have no strong runners remotely comparable to McCain. As long as McCain gets his party's nomination, he will win the general election. Hillary and Obama would not stand a chance against McCain, especially when the country really focus's on the two contenders after the primaries.

Winning the Republican nomination will be easier now that the Republicans have suffered such a heavy defeat in Congress. The upside to such a defeat is that its a wake up call to those who either did not vote, or thought they could afford to go with candidate a or b in 2008. For the Republicans now, the issue becomes more about electiblity and defeating the Democrats rather than ones personal preference or ideology for a particular candidate. In addition, the party "elites" and key fundraisers had already started to line up behind him before the November elections.

The Democrats will do their best to go after McCain, but going after McCain won't be like going after W.


but how is McCain going to stimulate the Christofascist Republican base?

everyone else -- moderates, independents, even some protestant evangelicals, and certainly everyone who isn't a straight white male -- abandoned the Republicans in 2006. Bush has steered this Exxon Valdez of a party aground; it will take them decades to rebuild and redefine. Republicanism, as we have come to know it since 1994, is dead and buried, and Bush is to blame.

and Iraq is going to hang around McCain's neck like a noose, especially with 71% of Americans disapproving of Bush's handling of the war. all of McCain's reckless support of a thoughtless, pointless, catastrophic invasion and occupation is going to come back to haunt him -- he's arguing for more troops. sounds politically suicidal.
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Old 12-08-2006, 04:35 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511
all of McCain's reckless support of a thoughtless, pointless, catastrophic invasion and occupation is going to come back to haunt him -- he's arguing for more troops. sounds politically suicidal.
I think McCain has presented enough differences between himself and the White House on this issue, that he may very well overcome it.

It is an albatross...I agree....but...with the right spin....
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Old 12-08-2006, 04:45 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally posted by anitram
Pro-choice and pro-gay marriage winning the Republican primary? Hahahaha!!

Good one.
I so agree with you anitram. Also he has a some baggage behind him that I don't think will get him the Christian Right's vote.

John McCain will be 76 if he runs in 2008. Reminds me of Bob Dole who ran against Clinton in 1996, and he was also 76 at the time. If he got elected he said that he would only serve one term.
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Old 12-08-2006, 06:39 PM   #17
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The Democrats have no strong runners remotely comparable to McCain. As long as McCain gets his party's nomination, he will win the general election. Hillary and Obama would not stand a chance against McCain, especially when the country really focus's on the two contenders after the primaries.

Winning the Republican nomination will be easier now that the Republicans have suffered such a heavy defeat in Congress. The upside to such a defeat is that its a wake up call to those who either did not vote, or thought they could afford to go with candidate a or b in 2008. For the Republicans now, the issue becomes more about electiblity and defeating the Democrats rather than ones personal preference or ideology for a particular candidate. In addition, the party "elites" and key fundraisers had already started to line up behind him before the November elections.

The Democrats will do their best to go after McCain, but going after McCain won't be like going after W.
Well, this would be the standard hardcore Republican rosy view.
It's a four horse race, aside from Giuliani, whom I think has little chance, I'd say McCain, Romney and Gingrich aren't all that far apart. I know what recent polling says and I know the size of salt to take it with. McCain has a public persona of moderate, nice guy, self-effacing, war hero. When he starts getting beat up again, even worse with the Bush baggage, all those hardcore Reps will be looking at Gingrich and Romney with wide open eyes.
Then again, McCain is a true conservative, but so are the other two. I'm just saying, it's not the slam-dunk that conventional wisdom says at this point.

In fact, in those silly polls, Giuliani's lead is widening over McCain.
Did Rudy become more conservative or is McCain becoming less desirable....to Republicans? I don't think those polls mean anything but if that's the justification for this rosy view for McCain, I think it's misguided, personally.

Lastly, if you underestimate the Clinton machine, it makes me wonder if you were in a coma throughout the 90's. Hillary will be tough to beat, Obama will have no easy task and neither will the Rep nomination. Those silly polls alos say something about that supposed 'gap'. McCain vs Hillary head up is now a 4-8 point lead for McCain, where a year, two years ago it was at least 15.

A common sense approach here, how can the Republicans reconcile Iraq by 2008 with the Bush agenda? They basically can't. Nothing short of a miraculous turnaround. So if an objective common sense says that the Bush agenda is doomed in 2008, what does that do to John McCain, coupled with being beaten up in the campaign itself, the elephant in the room is his support of the Bush agenda. Republicans will be running from the Bush agenda like the plague in 2008. McCain will be the lone torch bearer of the current policy. Gingrich will eat him alive in the debates. Romney may coast, I say McCain doesn't get the nomination. Romney vs Gingrich.

So not only do I scoff at the idea of an invincible McCain in 2008, a man I supported in 2000, I don't think he'll even get the nomination. I certainly could be wrong, it's just an opinion.
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Old 12-08-2006, 09:47 PM   #18
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Originally posted by Irvine511




but how is McCain going to stimulate the Christofascist Republican base?

everyone else -- moderates, independents, even some protestant evangelicals, and certainly everyone who isn't a straight white male -- abandoned the Republicans in 2006. Bush has steered this Exxon Valdez of a party aground; it will take them decades to rebuild and redefine. Republicanism, as we have come to know it since 1994, is dead and buried, and Bush is to blame.

and Iraq is going to hang around McCain's neck like a noose, especially with 71% of Americans disapproving of Bush's handling of the war. all of McCain's reckless support of a thoughtless, pointless, catastrophic invasion and occupation is going to come back to haunt him -- he's arguing for more troops. sounds politically suicidal.
No the fact that McCain supported removing one of the worst threats to US and Global Security as well as one of the great mass murderers of history is not going to come back to haunt McCain. McCain is on the right side of history there.

McCain is correct to call for more troops. Withdrawing troops prematurely will not improve the situation in Iraq. McCain has a level of leadership that most of the candidates in the current field simply don't have and that is why he'll be able to succeed even with policies that may be temporarily controversial to the current majority of voters.

The fact that the Democrats have nothing of substance to offer and were only selected by a majority of the population recently as a protest vote will come to haunt the Democrats in 2008. Its one thing to win in an off presidential year election, its another to win when twice as many people will be focused on the race.

The Republicans defeat in 2006 will only make it easier for McCain in 2008. There is too much about Hillary that divides the population. Her negatives are too high. McCain's positives are still enormous and outweigh any known negatives. Hillary and Obama can't beat McCain. The Dems need someone else if they want to be competitive once the primaries are over.

Regardless of what you think "Republicanism" stands for and whether its dead or alive, McCain has always been his own person in a way few other politicians have been. He is not someone who defines "Republicanism" which is why as long as he gets the nomination, he will receive votes from every party and group in society. He is liked by a much broader part of the political spectrum than any of the other candidates. That equates to victory in the national election.
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Old 12-08-2006, 10:23 PM   #19
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Lastly, if you underestimate the Clinton machine, it makes me wonder if you were in a coma throughout the 90's. Hillary will be tough to beat, Obama will have no easy task and neither will the Rep nomination. Those silly polls alos say something about that supposed 'gap'. McCain vs Hillary head up is now a 4-8 point lead for McCain, where a year, two years ago it was at least 15.

A common sense approach here, how can the Republicans reconcile Iraq by 2008 with the Bush agenda? They basically can't. Nothing short of a miraculous turnaround. So if an objective common sense says that the Bush agenda is doomed in 2008, what does that do to John McCain, coupled with being beaten up in the campaign itself, the elephant in the room is his support of the Bush agenda. Republicans will be running from the Bush agenda like the plague in 2008. McCain will be the lone torch bearer of the current policy. Gingrich will eat him alive in the debates. Romney may coast, I say McCain doesn't get the nomination. Romney vs Gingrich.

So not only do I scoff at the idea of an invincible McCain in 2008, a man I supported in 2000, I don't think he'll even get the nomination. I certainly could be wrong, it's just an opinion.
Well, its not the first time someone has underestimated McCain. In fact, I think its great that there are still some people out there that do, it takes the spotlight off. Few Americans know who Romney is, and the Republicans would not nominate Gingrich in 100 years, he is way to far to right to appeal to anyone except people in the Republican party. The Republicans are searching for a candidate that will be able to appeal to the moderates and independents as well as a few Democrats, and there is not another Republican that can do that to the degree that McCain can.

If the Republican party is as dead as some people claim it to be, and the religious right will not vote in the numbers some people claim they do, then you need a Republican candidate that has as much pull as possible with people outside his party in order to help insure victory. I don't think things are that desperate, but obviously if things have really deteriated along those lines, the way to make it up is with someone who has appeal outside the party. Thats why the party's money machine has already started to line up behind McCain.

The only thing thats preventing McCain from being the "invincible" candidate in 2008 is the Iraq war, NOT any of the big name opposition he would face in the Democratic party. When you ask the population who would make a better "Commander In Chief", they will never vote for Hillary or Obama over McCain despite their feelings on the Iraq war now or whatever it might be in 2008. The Dems need someone else.
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Old 12-09-2006, 09:47 AM   #20
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No the fact that McCain supported removing one of the worst threats to US and Global Security as well as one of the great mass murderers of history is not going to come back to haunt McCain. McCain is on the right side of history there.



nope. 71% disapprove of the war. 71%!!!!

it has been the worst foreign policy mistake the US has made ever in its history. EVER!

McCain will have to jump through hoops to distance himself from Bush who is well on his way to being regarded as the worst president ever in the history of the United States. EVER!

the best hope for McCain is his ability to run on specific policy points where he has differed from the insanely corrupt Republican congress (who's more concerned with boys kissing and pet pork projects than with protecting poor people in New Orleans or managing a semi-competent post-war) that the American people have sent packing because they know that George Bush is the worst president in the history of the United States and that Iraq is an embarassment and is currently deteriorating. 2006 was the most important, most closely watched, mid-term election in our lifetimes, and it was a sound rejection of everything Bush and Republican. all you have left is Dixie, and all that gives you Dixie are good old fashioned Republican racism, homophobia, and religious fascism.

so, if McCain can stand in front of the nation and repudiate all things Bush, perhaps some tears and a mea culpa, maybe then he might have a chance. but everyone is going to remember how he bent over and took it from Bush in the 2004 election, which is when i lost my respect for McCain.

but until he does that, it doesn't look good. it's looking more and more like the party is going to go with Romney anyway -- he's got the Christofascist credentials that McCain just doesn't have, no matter how much he panders to the Republican base by speaking at Bob Jones U or talking with Jerry Falwell.
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