i am starting to notice -- not necessarily with you, but in lots of religious-oriented dialogue -- a new dichotomy being created: the believers vs. the secularists. and i think that's a false choice. religious people can be passionate secularists, for it is secularism that allows the robust practice of their religion as they see fit. you pointed out that some churches promote a healthy, adventurous sex life -- i think that's great -- yet other churches migth view sex as a pro-creative activity only. under the secular model, both views are tolerated, accepted, and freely practiced. however, for society to sanction a religious model, one of these two different attitudes would be right, and the other would be wrong.