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#61 |
War Child
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: under the table and screaming
Posts: 754
Local Time: 04:47 PM
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You know, we're trying to have a discussion here and you are just trying to provoke people into a rage.
__________________Things like that do not make anyone's cause look better or worse, they just make the people using those tactics look like cowards for not addressing the issues. |
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#62 |
Acrobat
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: South Bend, IN USA
Posts: 399
Local Time: 12:47 AM
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I'm not trying to provoke anyone. I'm just giving a little insight into reality without all the sugar-coating. I feel it is my responsibility to share this image, and I feel that it is the responsibility of anyone who wants to form any kind of opinion on this subject to become acquainted with the harsh ugly truth.
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#63 | |
ONE
love, blood, life Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Posts: 11,782
Local Time: 08:47 PM
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Quote:
Melon |
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#64 |
ONE
love, blood, life Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Posts: 11,782
Local Time: 08:47 PM
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As for Christianity claiming to be moral and ethical, it forfeited that reality centuries ago. As idealistic as I am, organized Christianity has been nothing but a reactionary hate movement, more concerned with power, greed, and control than actually being concerned with truth. It has been no wonder that Christianity has often been ardent supporters of fascist dictators and, prior to that, autocratic monarchies. Or the fact that many pay lip-service to American democracy, preferring, rather, a pseudo-democratic theocracy. And, yet, these are the "true patriots"?
Human rights? What human rights? Sure, so they are pro-life; but where is their concern for these fetuses once they are born? For this being such a "Christian" nation, a full 1/3 (33%) of America doesn't have health insurance. So much for corporal works of mercy! Or when I hear such "Christian" men like William Bennett hold a Bible in one hand and proclaim the wonders of war against Afghanistan in the other. Enough is enough, frankly. I've had enough with fanaticism of all kinds. Let the Christian and Islamic fundamentalists have each other...they deserve each other. Pro-life? No, just anti-abortion for the most part, as the death penalty is a wonderful thing. Do tell...how many of you here who are "pro-life" support the death penalty? I'll be waiting with bells on... Melon |
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#65 |
Acrobat
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: South Bend, IN USA
Posts: 399
Local Time: 12:47 AM
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I consider myself to be pro-life, but only for the same reason a lot of people are pro-choice. I don't see the human fetus as a person. I see it as an innocent, uncorrupted life that deserves a chance at living. I think all life is sacred and wonderful, except people. People are horrible horrible creatures that need to go away. They're stupid. They're self-righteous and self-serving. They're completely useless. The fewer people out there, the better.
But, NGL, how can a human not be a person? Personhood is a social construct. Humans are socialized into people. Once that happens, they are worthless bags of bone and water, and their only purposes are to get big so they can fertilize more plants and feed more worms. So why are you pro-life? Because I don't see human fetuses as people. They're innocent life forms, and, while they have potential to be bad things, they still deserve a chance at redemption. I believe all life to be sacred and wonderful, and I believe all things have an inherant right to live until they grow up and forfeit it. |
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#66 | |||
ONE
love, blood, life Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 10,885
Local Time: 07:47 PM
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Quote:
Quote:
Fanatacism is truly the root of many of the worlds problems. I have mentioned it before and I will say it again, there is a historical theme surrounding fanaticism. Mankind misses the picture again and again. Quote:
Good post as always Melon. Peace to all |
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#67 |
Blue Crack Addict
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: NY
Posts: 18,877
Local Time: 08:47 PM
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I feel very uncomfortable with asserting some type of moral superiority.
Would I have an abortion? Probably not. Do I want to tell other women what to do? Definitely not. |
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#68 | |
ONE
love, blood, life Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Posts: 11,782
Local Time: 08:47 PM
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Quote:
Melon |
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#69 | |
ONE
love, blood, life Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 11,961
Local Time: 07:47 PM
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![]() Quote:
plenty of christians DO care for individuals at all stages of life, not just the unborn children. there are millions of christians in the world who AREN'T fundamentalist. i'm kind of offended by your post. |
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#70 | ||
ONE
love, blood, life Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Posts: 11,782
Local Time: 08:47 PM
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Quote:
Quote:
Melon |
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#71 |
ONE
love, blood, life Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 11,961
Local Time: 07:47 PM
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i understand your frustration melon, and we appear to be on the same page for the most part. sorry if i overreacted.
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#72 | |
ONE
love, blood, life Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 10,885
Local Time: 07:47 PM
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Quote:
One is killed for no reason at all. The other, is an administration of justice. Did Jesus turn the other cheek so much that he was killed? Or did the Messiah hold back because the will of God was that he should be sacraficed. In either case, he submitted to the justice handed down by the courts. |
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#73 | |
Rock n' Roll Doggie
VIP PASS Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Melbourne, Australia, some time after tea
Posts: 6,325
Local Time: 12:47 AM
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Quote:
And won't a human still grow into a big worthless bag of bone and water whether he/she is socialized or not? |
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#74 |
ONE
love, blood, life Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Ewen's new American home
Posts: 11,412
Local Time: 08:47 PM
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I'm home now...kind of.
I'm really impressed with what I've seen in this thread. I'll have to tell you all about what I saw in the South Bronx and some new insights I now have on the subject. However, right now, it is well past my bedtime. Nighty-night. ![]() |
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#75 |
ONE
love, blood, life Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: canada
Posts: 13,462
Local Time: 07:47 PM
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this thread makes me sad...
![]() ive shared a personal story about this about two years ago, here and i dont feel like posting it now. people try and think this through and try and convince themselves that what they are doing is fine and for the better. fucking bullshit. i hope their mind eats away at their skull. and those that say we cant tell someone what to do, ok, fine, but this isnt some ho hum issue. no other issue hurts me more. |
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#76 | |
Rock n' Roll Doggie
FOB Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Live from Boston
Posts: 8,334
Local Time: 08:47 PM
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That said, the reason I don't like that this is filed under "women's rights" is because as a woman I feel we have a higher responsibility when we have a child, and we have to sacrifice our rights to others. YES, it's unfair that we have to have the child inside of us for 9 months and give birth to it, and the men do not- but that is a risk we accept when we have sex (just like men have to accept the risk that their partner may not feel the same way about children as he does). Yes we may not want the pain, the trouble, the shame, the hassle, the burden.. but we should be teaching people how to take responsiblity for their actions. It's not just women who are affected in this issue. What about the father? It's his child too. Of course, like I said before, what about the child who deserves the right to live. This is human rights, not just women's rights. |
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#77 | |
Blue Crack Addict
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Southern California
Posts: 22,071
Local Time: 04:47 PM
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Quote:
Yesterday’s worship service of “sinners anonymous” was notably void of hatred, power greed or desire for control. Instead we examined Galatians 3:1-14, what I would call a concern for truth. Which leads to a basic question, what is your source of truth? You are in my prayers brother Melon. |
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#78 |
War Child
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: under the table and screaming
Posts: 754
Local Time: 04:47 PM
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I agree Zoomerang96, this issue makes me very sad to.
Obviously we have different reasons for this, but it can make anyone sad to think about, not just pro-lifers. Not everyone "has to think this through and convince themselves" of anything. It's legal, and to those who choose to get an abortion, it's their decision. Not everyone who gets an abortion is haunted with regret or guilt or whatever bad feelings people like to assume go with it. And I would also agree that it's not just a "woman's issue" it is indeed a human rights issue, but again we see things differently. It is a legal activity. Keeping it legal, keeps it safe. I think the parental consent laws need to be removed. Having them negates the purposed of keeping it legal and safe for ALL of child bearing age, not just some. I've seen what happens to girls who can't tell their parents what happened and seek back alley abortions. I've seen what happens when a woman is raped, wants to terminate the pregnancy only to be killed by the "father" I've seen what happens when a girl gets nearly beaten to death by her mother for getting "knocked up" and wanting to "kill the baby". None of these things are pretty, and none of these things should have to happen. |
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#79 |
Acrobat
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: South Bend, IN USA
Posts: 399
Local Time: 12:47 AM
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Yes, let's keep it legal. Matter of fact, let's legalize killing anyone who's an inconvenience to us. That keeps it safer.
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#80 |
War Child
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: under the table and screaming
Posts: 754
Local Time: 04:47 PM
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to you it's killing, it isn't killing to everyone, you're not seeing it other than thru your own beliefs.
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