Remember, white people “find” things; black people “loot”.

[MrsSpringsteen]

what melon said -the media has inherent biases and prejudices. The fact that they wouldn't even see the discrepancy in the caption of these two pictures speaks volumes. It's not just this incident, it goes way beyond that.

 

[dazzledbylight]

Oh Brother, PCism run Amuck. I guess no one really knows who "Found" or looted anything. Although I think anyone who is wading through

isn't it "interesting" that the people who usually have benifited from a certain level of advantage because of their gender and/or race- sometimes ethnicity {usually men, usually white, then white women white people, then poeple of color { it can also be men of color, then women of colo] }.....are the ones that complain the loudest {and the worst can get very vicious} when their breathed-in-like-air position in life is pointed out to them.

AND I realize that many working class & poor white men feel like victims but they are more economic victims ... that are often more due to certain types of upper middle class and rich class bigotry again the lower classes and certain types of job losses through changes in types of economy "unskilled" labor, blue & white collar jobs,, manufacturing s service vs tech /or the professions etc.


I actually caught that article/comparision through a few hyperliks this afternoon, deep.

but thinks for bringing it here.......

 

[Irvine511]

^ agreed.

it amazes me (and this goes out to NO ONE in particular on this forum, i mean this as a general comment) when people who were born on third base walk through life thinking they hit a triple.

also, the #1 beneficiaries of Affirmative Action are ... white women.

 

[Doozer61]

this afternoon i was watching our local news online. they were showing looters in a wal-mart. in the beginning, all you saw were black people in the store and then they focused on the white people. i remember commenting to some co-workers that i was glad they were not just showing one race in this instance.

and i agree, taking things for survival at this point is a must. i don't know what i would honestly do in that position. do you?

 

[Liesje]

and i agree, taking things for survival at this point is a must. i don't know what i would honestly do in that position. do you?

I would do the same and I'm white through and through. If the grocery stores are as damaged as the houses, they're probably a total loss anyway so who cares if hungry, now homeless people take some food.

 

[randhail]

and i agree, taking things for survival at this point is a must. i don't know what i would honestly do in that position. do you?

But does that justify the ransacking of electronics stores and clothing stores?

Food is one thing but the guys will shopping carts full of other stuff I have a problem with.

 

[anitram]

Frankly, I'd take whatever food/water I can and attempt to get the hell out of there instead of carrying out 20 pairs of high end jeans.

It's kind of like my experience with war. 99% of the people are trying to just survive and the other 1% see it as a business opportunity.

 

[VertigoGal]

I'd agree that what we need to know here is whether the captions were written by the same person. If not, I don't think there's any issue.

Of course, there's tons of subtle racism in the media...they generally only raise the "amber alert" and closely follow the cases if it's cute white kids getting abducted. Still, I think this has more to do with marketing and giving their audience what they want to see (unfortunately), than racist individuals within the media.

 

[melon]

I think people are missing a key point here. I think a lot of you here are defining "racism" in terms of how intentional it was. If that's the case, no, I don't think there's many KKK members or supporters in media.

But latent prejudice, in the form of stereotypes, is all over the place. And, no, very little of this is intentional, but it doesn't make it any less offensive. It is, however, extremely beneficial to be able to point out such prejudices, however unintentional, in the hopes of getting the media to be more balanced in their portrayals.

Melon

 

[trevster2k]

I could care less if the people "loot" or find food, at this point the people have to survive and they can't run down to the nearest 7-11 to buy a big gulp. If the supermarket or store is destroyed, have at it. Better they eat it or drink it, then it go to waste.

 

[INDY500]

http://www.opinionjournal.com/columnists/pnoonan/

An article written by Peggy Noonan, a onetime speech writer for President Reagan. Here is a sample paragraph.

If this part of the story grows--if cities on the gulf come to seem like some combination of Dodge and the Barbarian invasion--it's going to be bad for our country. One of the things that keeps us together, and that lets this great lumbering nation move forward each day, is the sense that we will be decent and brave in times of crisis, that the fabric holds, that under duress it is American heroism and altruism that take hold and not base instincts born of irresponsibility, immaturity and greed.

 

[echo0001]

Point about the merchandise.

In 1985, West Virginia had a flood. A lot of damage to many businesses. Food (even canned and bottled food that could not have been contaminated) in stores that were infiltrated by just an inch or two of flood water--could not be sold. All food of any type from grocery and\or convenience stores infiltrated by flood waters was a complete loss.

So anybody down there that needs something to eat\drink and who can find something uncomtaminated has no reason NOT to help themselves.

Hell. Go ahead. Clean out a whole shelf of soda. It's already garbage to by health code.

(We were not rich people. We had a neighbor who owned a grocery store. His entire inventory was a loss, whether it had been IN the water or not. After the flood was over, he helped us out by giving us cases of perfectly untouched canned goods that the health code prevented him from selling.)

About electronics, clothes, etc.; up to you, I guess. How willing are you to risk going to jail?

 

[trevster2k]

Well, one funny thing about taking stuff other than food/water/diapers,etc is umm, they are evacuating the city, everyone's home is pretty much gone so where do they plan on putting their stolen sneakers, coats, etc.

Hold on, officer, while I go get my stolen goods to put on the bus, just madness.

 

[echo0001]

Well, one funny thing about taking stuff other than food/water/diapers,etc is umm, they are evacuating the city, everyone's home is pretty much gone so where do they plan on putting their stolen sneakers, coats, etc.

Hold on, officer, while I go get my stolen goods to put on the bus, just madness.

Yeah, I was wondering about that, too. What the hell are they going to do with that stuff? Shrink wrap it and hope it'll still be dry when the water goes down?

 

[MrsSpringsteen]

there's some discussion of it here

http://www.boingboing.net/2005/08/30/black_people_loot_wh.html

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

Isn't it obvious?

You tell me how many stories there are on the nightly news dealing with the abductions/killings of human beings of minority. You tell me how much coverage Robert Blake's trial got as opposed to OJ or Michael Jackson?

ya hurt your argument with the last line...

there are plenty of good examples of this... latoyia figueroa vs. laci peterson... if one gunshot goes off in a school in subrubia, it's headline news, the same thing happens in inner city detroit and it barely gets a paragraph in the city's own newspaper... the beautiful blonde high school senior goes missing in aruba and it's the only thing the talking news heads discuss... if it was a young black woman from the inner city? i seriously doubt we'd even ever know.

but robert blake vs. OJ or MJ? robert blake is an insignificant actor who had one major role in his life, and that was 25 years ago... OJ Simpson was a beloved sports hero... one of the greatest players in NFL history... who's huge popularity as a player spawned endorsements, tv jobs and movie roles well after his playing career was over. and michael jackson was at one point the most popular musical act in the world, with fame that has only been matched by elvis or the beatles.

there's plenty of stereotyping in the world... "racial profiling"... and flat out racism. there's enough obvious examples out there that, like in the case of these photographs, we really don't need to go looking for it when it probably isn't even there. and besides... this is a tragedy of an epic nature... new orleans has baisicly been turned into the new atlantis... it's an uninhabitable ghost town submerged in 20 feet of shit and corpse filled waters. to be bickering over a photograph that has about a 10% chance that racist stereotyping was involved in the captioning of it is silly and fruitless.

there's much more important issues to be discussing in regards to this tragedy than to waste time on this.

 

[Irvine511]

there's much more important issues to be discussing in regards to this tragedy than to waste time on this.

i dunno ... while i certainly agree that relief efforts are of paramount importance, and people need food and shelter and drinking water and medicine, there is going to be the inevitable soul searching, on both a personal and on a national level, that happens after disasters and catastrophes of this nature. happened after 9-11, happened after the tsunami, will happen after this. i think it's important, because growth and understanding always come from reflection. it hasn't gone unnoticed, to my eyes, that the vast majority of the people being evacuated on the news (and i need to stress that, *on the news*) are african-american, and this corresponds with the fact that, i believe, about 25% of the population of New Orleans lives in poverty. in addition to all the misery and suffering, i am noticing that the misery and suffering is raced (as in, it appears to have a color, it appears to be disproportionately of a single color). and this does come purely from media images -- that's all i have to go on, since i'm not down there. what it tells me is that we still have enormous socio-economic problems that are inextricably linked to the country's deeply racist past, especially given that this is a very southern city in a very southern state.

and, as always, it's those who have the least to lose who lose the most.

so i suppose the point of my post is to agree with you on one hand, but to also point out the need for reflection on the tragedy, how the tragedy is reported, and what the tragedy tells us about ourselves as a nation.

 

[LarryMullen's POPAngel]

but robert blake vs. OJ or MJ? robert blake is an insignificant actor who had one major role in his life, and that was 25 years ago... OJ Simpson was a beloved sports hero... one of the greatest players in NFL history... who's huge popularity as a player spawned endorsements, tv jobs and movie roles well after his playing career was over. and michael jackson was at one point the most popular musical act in the world, with fame that has only been matched by elvis or the beatles.

You caught me on the last one there. I was trying to point out that a black person on trial garnered more attention than his white counterpart, but I see what you're saying here.

there's much more important issues to be discussing in regards to this tragedy than to waste time on this.

Agreed.

 

[For Honor]

Well, all I know, is that my local media coverage is more than a little slanted.


It seems like all they show are african americans, especially when they are "looting". But the white girls are the ones who get the majority of the weeping spots on TV......



Just an observation of my local media.

But it's not too bad....

 

[Liesje]

I watched an hour of coverage before falling to sleep last night and they had a guy on the phone who was in charge of a private ambulance service. He'd been working all day helping the military move people from the hospitals b/c their generators are running out. He said the civil unrest is pretty bad and people were getting pissed that they couldn't get rides out and were actually tipping the boats and ambulances that were evacuating people from the damaged hospitals. They had to stop for the day and request more people from the military to go along the next day (today) to control the people.

I guess I can't really say how one should react b/c I've never been in a situation even close to this, but who in their right mind would tip over rescue vehicles that were evacuating people who were ALREADY in critical conditions and will die because the hospitals are out of supplies?

They were also showing more coverage of the looting and the reporters noted that taking food and supplies is one thing, but they had tapes of people making off with plasma TVs and other electronic equipment. There was also theft at the pharmacies.

 

[Doozer61]

and my question is where the hell are they gonna use these items? are they nuts? maybe in that situation you loose your mind but i would only be grabbing stuff i needed to survive...food and water.

it's just fucking ridiculous. i watched coverage last night and it was devastating yet comical to see this people dragging the electronic crap around while trying to hang onto their kids. what is going through their minds?

 

[deep]

.

it's just fucking ridiculous. i watched coverage last night and it was devastating yet comical to see this people dragging the electronic crap around while trying to hang onto their kids. what is going through their minds?

Doozer this post is no more directed at you than all he others that want to distinguish between “food items” and everything else.


and i have not had time to read through this entire thread

but, maybe going though their minds
is that their apartment building , their place of work, and every personal belonging has been wiped off the face of the earth

as renters they have no homeowner’s insurance, they have nothing but literally the clothes on their back

so if they got to the 7-11 late and there were no food or water to take
but there was a computer, or some other item of value or utilitarian use, and they took it

i not ready to condemn them, yet.





unless their a "certain group" of people

 

[drumkeeran]

My prayers for the "looters" and the "finders" alike

**(quickly slips out of FYM, hopefully unnoticed)**

 

[U2SavesTheWorld]

Interestingly enough, CNN has the same picture (the black "looter) on their website and the caption is:


"A young man drags groceries through chest-deep water in New Orleans on Tuesday. "

 

[anitram]

I believe it was revealed today that the same person wrote both captions for Yahoo.

So much for that theory.

 

[DaveC]

I'd agree that what we need to know here is whether the captions were written by the same person. If not, I don't think there's any issue.

Of course, there's tons of subtle racism in the media...they generally only raise the "amber alert" and closely follow the cases if it's cute white kids getting abducted. Still, I think this has more to do with marketing and giving their audience what they want to see (unfortunately), than racist individuals within the media.

This is EXACTLY what I've been trying to say. But of course, I'm just the ignorant, blind, white, straight, middle-class male, so what could I possibly know?

The captions were NOT written by the same people. They weren't even written by the same news agency. Sure, one of them could be racist. How the hell can we possibly know that, though, and automatically make the assumption that the persons who wrote these captions are?

Hell, for all we know, one of them could be a black woman and the other one a Taiwanese transsexual. Or, they could both be white men. We don't know this. We don't know any facts or context behind these pictures, so stop assuming and making snap judgments of racism on the part of these copy editors.

It's equally ignorant to label someone without knowing any of the facts behind a situation, as it is to stereotype, is it not?

 

[DaveC]

I believe it was revealed today that the same person wrote both captions for Yahoo.

So much for that theory.

How the hell would you possibly find that out??

 

[anitram]

How the hell would you possibly find that out??

Well, the guy who wrote them was on the news defending himself.

 

[DaveC]

THURSDAY, SEPTEMBER 1, 2005
Update: Photographer believes couple did "find" groceries
Sports Shooter
Chris Graythen wrote the caption for his photo of two hurricane survivors with bread and soda. "I believed in my opinion, that they did simply find them, and not 'looted' them in the definition of the word," he writes. "The people were swimming in chest deep water, and there were other people in the water, both white and black. I looked for the best picture. there were a million items floating in the water - we were right near a grocery store that had 5+ feet of water in it. it had no doors. the water was moving, and the stuff was floating away. These people were not ducking into a store and busting down windows to get electronics. They picked up bread and cokes that were floating in the water. They would have floated away anyhow." (His post is low on the page.) (Related from Salon.)

And the actual posting at http://www.sportsshooter.com/message_display.html?tid=17204:

Chris Graythen, Photographer, Photo Editor
new orleans | LA | USA | Posted: 6:10 PM Yesterday
->> Jeasus, I don't belive how much crap I'm getting from this. First of all, I hope you excuse me, but I'm completely at the end of my rope. You have no Idea how stressful this whole disaster is, espically since I have not seen my wife in 5 days, and my parents and grand parents HAVE LOST THIER HOMES. As of right now, we have almost NOTHING.

Please stop emailing me on this one.

I wrote the caption about the two people who 'found' the items. I believed in my opinion, that they did simply find them, and not 'looted' them in the definition of the word. The people were swimming in chest deep water, and there were other people in the water, both white and black. I looked for the best picture. there were a million items floating in the water - we were right near a grocery store that had 5+ feet of water in it. it had no doors. the water was moving, and the stuff was floating away. These people were not ducking into a store and busting down windows to get electronics. They picked up bread and cokes that were floating in the water. They would have floated away anyhow. I wouldn't have taken in, because I wouldn't eat anything that's been in that water. But I'm not homeless. (well, technically I am right now.)


I'm not trying to be politically correct. I'm don't care if you are white or black. I spent 4 hours on a boat in my parent's neighborhood shooting, and rescuing people, both black and white, dog and cat. I am a journalist, and a human being - and I see all as such. If you don't belive me, you can look on Getty today and see the images I shot of real looting today, and you will see white and black people, and they were DEFINATELY looting. And I put that in the caption.

Please, please don't argue symantics over this one. This is EXTREMELY serious, and I can't even begin to convey to those not here what it is like. Please, please, be more concerned on how this affects all of us (watch gas prices) and please, please help out if you can.

This is my home, I will hopefully always be here. I know that my friends in this business across the gulf south are going through the exact same thing - and I am with them, and will do whatever I can to help. But please, please don't email me any more about this caption issue.

And please, don't yell at me about spelling and grammar. Im eating my first real meal (a sandwich) right now in 3 days.

When this calms down, I will be more than willing to answer any questions, just ask.


Thank you all -
-Chris Graythen

Gee, I guess this means that the big bad white couple really did loot the store, but the media is just biased, right? Hmm?

For fuck's sakes people. 2 different photographers, two different events, two different taglines. Get over it.

 

[DaveC]

And just to further solidify the point here, the following two pictures were taken by the exact same photographer who wrote the bylines for yesterday's photos:

NEW ORLEANS - AUGUST 31: A man carries an armful of supplies including food and drinks taken from a Walgreens store after Hurricane Katrina August 31, 2005 in New Orleans, Louisianna. Devastation is widespread throughout the city with water 12 feet high in some areas. Hundreds are feared dead and thousands were left homeless in Louisiana, Mississippi, Alabama and Florida by the storm. (Photo by Chris Graythen/Getty Images)

NEW ORLEANS - AUGUST 31: A man hauls a cooler full of supplies taken from a Walgreens store after Hurricane Katrina August 31, 2005 in New Orleans, Louisianna. Devastation is widespread throughout the city with water 12 feet high in some areas. Hundreds are feared dead and thousands were left homeless in Louisiana, Mississippi, Alabama and Florida by the storm. (Photo by Chris Graythen/Getty Images)

They've both done the same thing. So it appears *gasp* that white people can loot too, and black people can find things!! Who'd have ever thought??

Drop it, people.