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Old 09-19-2007, 07:59 AM   #21
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damn straight about the removal of lots of goody nice feeling nerve endings. You circumsized boys are missing out.

Also that whole 'unclean' idea about a foreskin is untrue. Of course if you don't wash it and you'e a mangy dog then its going to be dirty either which way, if you're a normal person and wash normally - everything is hunky dory.

but its a lot more painful to get circumsized as an adult then as a baby... so this let them choose thing wouldn't work so much.
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Old 09-19-2007, 08:43 AM   #22
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but its a lot more painful to get circumsized as an adult then as a baby...


this is what concerns me to.

it's very painful. amazing what religous ferver will to do you, and cause you to do to your children.

i can't imagine circumsicision as being some kind of be-all-end-all for Jewish-hood.
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Old 09-19-2007, 11:28 AM   #23
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Originally posted by maycocksean
But don't you have to like. . .clean. . .under the flap of skin if you're uncircumsized.


Of course, just like you have to clean your ears and wash your hair. It's just another body part.
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Old 09-19-2007, 12:36 PM   #24
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Of course, just like you have to clean your ears and wash your hair. It's just another body part.


yes, but this means parents have to say the word p-e-n-i-s to their little boys.

:shudder:
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Old 09-19-2007, 01:08 PM   #25
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It's definately losing popularity among younger people. I can think of several people I know who have chosen not to circumcise their babies.
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Old 09-20-2007, 03:04 AM   #26
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Originally posted by Bono's American Wife




Of course, just like you have to clean your ears and wash your hair. It's just another body part.
Funny, I almost mentioned in my last post that I have enough trouble remembering to wash behind my ears. . .
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Old 09-20-2007, 03:12 AM   #27
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yes, but this means parents have to say the word p-e-n-i-s to their little boys.

:shudder:
Irvine, do you really think that what's motivating most people (especially non-Jewish people) to get their boys circumsized? A fear of having to talk about penises? I can assure you that wasn't the case in my family.

And religious fervor? I can't speak for any other faiths but I don't think I know of a single Christian who thinks circumcision is some sort of requirement of the faith. I know it has NO religious connotations for me at all!

I think your strongest argument would be that people continue to circumsize out of a kind of blind sense of tradition and "Well, isn't that what you're SUPPOSED to do" and "Well, I want my son to look like me" and so on. I think THAT's what's motivating most people (and it's what would motivate me).

As to the loss of nerve endings. . .well, perhaps my sex life is a sad, empty shell of what might have been, but it sure doesn't seem that way. I know we've been through this before in an early thread, but I'll say again, that speaking as a circumsized man I've never felt marred or as if I was missing some vital thing. And I kind of resent people trying to convince me that I should feel that way.
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Old 09-20-2007, 03:13 AM   #28
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Originally posted by last unicorn

But basically, I'm against any form of physical change on babies or small children, besides for health reasons. I think people should have the right to grow up and decide themselves what they want to do to their bodies. It's not right to do something like that to babies, they cannot object to it.
So where's the thread of outrage against piercing the ears of young girls?
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Old 09-20-2007, 03:32 AM   #29
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Originally posted by maycocksean

So where's the thread of outrage against piercing the ears of young girls?
Don't most piercing holes close up -- even ones years old -- if you take the jewelry out? Mine always have. I've never yet heard of a foreskin growing back.


As for circumcision, not being male, and not having children, I don't really care either way. As long as it's clean and works well either is hunky dory with me.
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Old 09-20-2007, 04:00 AM   #30
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Originally posted by maycocksean


So where's the thread of outrage against piercing the ears of young girls?
Well I can tell you that I was - and still am - outraged that my parents forced me to have my ears pierced as a young girl, it hurt like hell and I hardly ever wore earrings. Seriously, I don't remember being asked about that. Growing up, I hoped my holes would disappear or close, which they have almost done. So, yes, I'm against that as well. Parents do a lot of things to their kids just because THEY want it that way.


(Oh no, I just realized I might have a pierced ears trauma ...)
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Old 09-20-2007, 06:00 AM   #31
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Originally posted by last unicorn


Well I can tell you that I was - and still am - outraged that my parents forced me to have my ears pierced as a young girl, it hurt like hell and I hardly ever wore earrings. Seriously, I don't remember being asked about that. Growing up, I hoped my holes would disappear or close, which they have almost done. So, yes, I'm against that as well. Parents do a lot of things to their kids just because THEY want it that way.


(Oh no, I just realized I might have a pierced ears trauma ...)
Fair enough.
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Old 09-20-2007, 07:22 AM   #32
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Originally posted by maycocksean


Irvine, do you really think that what's motivating most people (especially non-Jewish people) to get their boys circumsized? A fear of having to talk about penises? I can assure you that wasn't the case in my family.

And religious fervor? I can't speak for any other faiths but I don't think I know of a single Christian who thinks circumcision is some sort of requirement of the faith. I know it has NO religious connotations for me at all!

I think your strongest argument would be that people continue to circumsize out of a kind of blind sense of tradition and "Well, isn't that what you're SUPPOSED to do" and "Well, I want my son to look like me" and so on. I think THAT's what's motivating most people (and it's what would motivate me).

As to the loss of nerve endings. . .well, perhaps my sex life is a sad, empty shell of what might have been, but it sure doesn't seem that way. I know we've been through this before in an early thread, but I'll say again, that speaking as a circumsized man I've never felt marred or as if I was missing some vital thing. And I kind of resent people trying to convince me that I should feel that way.


i think, originally, circumsicision came out of victorian anti-sex mores, that if you removed the foreskin, then the boy would be less likely to masturbate. that's Western, though, can't say where it came from in the Jewish tradition.

i think parents cricumsize their boys because that's simply the cultural expectation. i spoke of religious ferver, but only insofar as it relates to this particular case -- it seems like the father is, indeed, in the grips of some religious ferver, and he's dragging his son along for the ride.

the whole "my son should look like me" argument feels a bit weird, since i can't recall ever having seen my father's penis, not even as a small child. and as for the sex life, well, i have noticed a difference between circumsized and uncircumsized men, and it's enough to tell me that i am missing out on something. of course it's not the most important part of sex, not at all, but again, why would you remove something that's *supposed* to be there?
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Old 09-20-2007, 09:11 AM   #33
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I think it's pretty much done out of tradition. I don't see the need for cutting...I'm cut and I'm not losing sleep over it, but if I'd had a son I wouldn't have had it done.

Also I have concerns about a 12 year old boy welcoming this. At 12 the last thing I wanted anywhere near my penis was a cutting tool of any kind; I wonder how he was "convinced" that this was a good idea?
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Old 09-20-2007, 11:02 AM   #34
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My view: Abuse and mutilation and using religion to excuse it and control girls.
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Old 09-20-2007, 11:15 AM   #35
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Originally posted by AnnRKeyintheUSA
My view: Abuse and mutilation and using religion to excuse it and control girls.


we're talking about boys in this situation.
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Old 09-20-2007, 11:26 AM   #36
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Oh, sorry. Not being a boy, I don't feel I have a right to completely judge this. IMO, what is done to boys is not nearly as painful or invasive or dangerous as what is done to girls, and though it had its origins in religious practices as well, is now done mainly for hygeine purposes. I will say as a woman, as far as sex and attraction goes, I prefer a man who has been 'done' to one who hasn't, if I'm allowed to say that.
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Old 09-20-2007, 01:48 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511

and as for the sex life, well, i have noticed a difference between circumsized and uncircumsized men, and it's enough to tell me that i am missing out on something.
As a woman, I've noticed a difference, too. (in the men's experience, not mine, I mean).
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Old 09-20-2007, 02:29 PM   #38
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if the kid's 12 years old.....let him make the decision. I understand why the father wants it done due to the religious aspect, but when it all comes down to it....the kid is 12 YEARS old, and he's the one that has to live with it one way or another.

Either that or leave him be till he's 18, then it's 100% his decision.
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Old 09-20-2007, 02:45 PM   #39
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Originally posted by Irvine511




we're talking about boys in this situation.
And it is in principle equally a case of mutilating a defenceless child for bizzare social ends; I am glad that I don't live in a country that embraces such a practice (of course if I am ever in one as a minority should I expect affirmative action?).
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Old 09-20-2007, 03:09 PM   #40
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And it is in principle equally a case of mutilating a defenceless child for bizzare social ends
Yes it is. Of course comparing male circumcision to FGM is taboo in certain circles (here for example). But the comparisons are there:

Done for religious reasons - check
Done out of tradition - check
Unnecessary mutilation of a child - check
Reduces sensation, particularly during sex - check

While I understand there are aspects of FGM that are unique (specifically the way societies that practice FGM treat their women), others, like the way FGM is sometimes done (at home, no doctor, unsanitary conditions etc) are just a function of economics. If we as a nation still delivered our children at home without a doctor present we might well be home-circumcising too; as it is we're performing them as religious rituals with no doctor around.

Honestly I think it boils down to we circumcise, so it's OK. They practice FGM, so it's barbaric and wrong etc etc.
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