religious conversions

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And just so we aren't in conflict with any of the passages in the Bible which command us to share our faith with others, maybe we could get the same super-smart and all-knowing theologians who brought us "The Jesus Seminar" to do a sequel where they go through and say that all of the evangelical passages aren't really evangleical and really mean something else if taken in the "proper historical context." They can prove all of this by simply throwing beads of various colors into bowls to prove all of these evanglical proclamation to be myths no more relevant than the tooth fairy.

~U2Alabama
 
Why fix what ain't broken, U2Bama? The same people who brought America evangelical Christianity also brought us the myth of our Founding Fathers being Bible-thumping Christians. "The Truth"? Who needs "the Truth" when we can just keep on living out 19th century-style Romanticism? :up:

Melon
 
U2BAMA Christianity is A very sincere form of religion. Im sorry its a religion that doesnt fit everyones pollitically correct views. Christianity is What i call myself cause of not just what i say i am, but more what i say, therefore i do. I am asked all the time why i do the things i do and i tell them straight out. I dont say ''no comment.'' Its Jesus's servant spirit I act upon. Jesus wants to give all life of a spring of very cold water. Jesus is the the son of God and the only way to God. I suggest everyone read the Bible especially the new testiment.

In this world today things are different. Times are different, its a point today that MAN is his own God and there is no higher being that made us or rules this world. Many people all over the world are choosing a religion that fits their lifestyle. however this is unfourtantly very sad. Its also a major point today to not say there is only one correct religion but rather say all of them are correct to make everybody happy. The truth is not going to be pretty or pleasant but i tell everyone today that Jesus is the only truth that you can stand on. Politcally correctness takes the truth that is hard to swallow and bends and forms it to fit everyone as a whole. Everyone is always worried about being offended by someone else therefore being pollitically correct makes the whiners happy. people would rather believe in something that is easy to believe in or a beliefe that meets their needs. I personnally have a beliefe that is a hard one. it is hard to live the life of jesus and live my life for others, Im glad i just dint pick a belief that fits my comfort zone, im glad i dint pick a belief that was created to make me comfortable in how other thought of me. my religion i get put down for it all the time. I get persecuted constantly by many other religions. personnally i dont care what other think of me. i will take my ministry everywhere i go whether you like it or not. '' ILL TAKE IT TO THE STREET IF I HAVE TO''
in conclusion christianity is not a well liked religion but its the only true salvation. christianity is the only religion that has a deity that was alive died and rose again. see the truth in the bilbe people and spread the good news that we are not judged for our sins we dont have to pray to olla 5ooo times a day to be redeemed or all these practises that many religions have come up with. i dont go to church on sunday i dont even pray all that much, but i believe and thats enough for me and please let it all be enough for you. I dont have to eat my cheese seperat from my meet. i dont have to wear some piece of religious clothing. i dont have to cover my face for all not to see. i dont have to do anything that is what is so great. i do make mistakes and all i have todo is just know that i am allready forgiven by jesus. he forgave me before i commited my sin. he knows im not perfect therefore he made me perfect, not perfect as in any way on earth or sinless it just makes me perfect in his eyes and this is all that matters.
 
megadrum2002, U2Bama is being sarcastic.

BTW, I think that's the same logic that fundamentalist Islam has.

Melon
 
anitram said:
Islam views Christians as People of the Book. The unbelievers or infidels it speaks of are polytheists.
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If I am not mistaken, the Christian Faith is viewed as Polytheistic because of the doctrine of the Trinity.
 
Dreadsox, Islam teaches that Christians and Jews are people of the book, that is that the one God had revealed himself to them first and as such, they are allowed to practice their own religions without interference (this in theory, rather than practice).
 
melon said:
Why fix what ain't broken, U2Bama? The same people who brought America evangelical Christianity also brought us the myth of our Founding Fathers being Bible-thumping Christians. "The Truth"? Who needs "the Truth" when we can just keep on living out 19th century-style Romanticism?

Melon
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But it IS broken! It's strayed from everything it's really about, right? Never mind the fact that the church I attend follows the message of Christ; I must be drunk during the services if I believe that. We all know that Christianity today, especially the Protestant variety down here, is all BAD BADB BAD! What we need to do is close our doors and not let new people join us. Don't want to screw up their culture now, do we?

As far as your myth regarding the Founding Fathers, I always learned in my history classes in public schools down here in the Bible Belt that separation of church and state was one of their main goals, and I also learned in middle school that some of them were deists. I may not agree with their religious views entirely, but I also don't agree with their tolerant views towards slavery. That being said, I do not recall any history courses, from kindergarten through college, informing me that the Founding Fathers were a bunch of Southern Baptists who sought independence so that they could create yet another theocracy.

The Jesus Seminar has given us "The Truth!" It's been proven! They even said so on ABC News!

~U2Alabama
 
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When it comes down to it every religion believes itself to be "the truth", right? But my question is this. If you are _____ religion and you believe your religion is the only way to God(and let's hope you believe in a loving god) how do you explain the fate of those individuals who live is a distant far off place who have never heard of your religion? Does your loving God ignore those folk? This has always been my issue with conversion. If they believe that their neighbor is going to hell because they don't believe in the same religion as them, then what happens to those who never got the chance to even learn about their religion? The God I believe in, wouldn't leave it to chance like that, so God may come in different forms.
 
Hmmm

I was just going to read the posts through here but I had to add my 2 cents. I am NOT an evangelist..I was raised by one parent who was catholic and one who is protestant...I saw light through both doorways. I made my own decision about what I believed.

..as far as the interpretation that all religions are somehow from a different God?

I believe all religions have the same God and many different names, idealistic images and prophets for him. (To me this is pretty much the same as admitting that no matter how much pigment you have in your skin you still belong to the same species of man.)

..as far as someone that will say that they don't believe in God?

I see these individuals with the same high moral standards as well as traditions they are passing down to their children that are pretty much the same as the ones offered by a religious centered household. (To me this is like sitting in a room and stating you are a different animal...you really aren't man after all...you believe you are a kite.)

the rest? bible thumpers? sins? marriage laws?

we all have our own interpretation of what is said in the Bible, between the lines of the Bible..and how many books there are in it..and what was left out..that does not make it right..it is simply an opinion based on interpretation and not an easy street marketing tactic (you know...I do not recall with all the reading I did anywhere it stating that there should be little printed envelopes stating I owe anyone cash that don't come from the IRS or that somehow one godly person should have a dramatically painted ceiling or gold commode in order for me to get to heaven...do you?)

My curious thoughts?

I believe in the golden rule..I believe in God and I believe that Christ died for our sins.

I believe in one God as a centralized energy of brilliant white/blue light interlinked with all our lives in a similar way that a galaxy and it's planets circles the sun in a predictable pattern and yet we still feel the warmth of the suns rays, whether we believe or not. I believe that our brain is not functioning at capacity for us to understand the wonder of this and that we are probably all interlinked somehow through an intricate web of thought and ideals much the same as our computers are, but wireless. I believe that we have a capacity for foresight and somehow knowing when something is to happen and what to do about it is a blessing (this isn't a psychic witch hunt of lore) and we know when we do somethign wrong that we should not have done it. This last thought comes from many episodes of people having the same thought as me at the same time...or soon after.

What are your thoughts?
 
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This idea that Christians are the most persecuted of any religion in countries like the UK and US is laughable. How many of you have ever been spat because you look like a Christian? Have you ever been confronted by members of the National Front (roughly equivalent to the KKK for people in the US) because you look like a Christian? Have you ever been physically assaulted because you look like a Christian? Has your church ever been covered in racist grafitti because it is a Christian church? Have crowds of people ever gathered outside your place of worship and shouted insulting comments as people left?

All of those things are experiences that Muslim and Jewish people I know have had in the last year or so. I know Muslim women who are afraid to go out wearing the hijab because people will shout at them and intimidate them. Have any of you ever been scared to go out wearing a symbol of your Christian religion?

I know there are a lot of people who are hostile to people talking about the Christian religion, and I'm sure that's frustrating for people who want to discuss their religion, but this idea that it's only Christians who are treated badly because of their religion is plain silly.

*Fizz.
 
They want to argue that Christians are the most persecuted of any religion, because then they feel "virtuous" and it can explain why they believe it is near the end times. And it also explains away their own intolerance for damn near everything.

"Judge not, lest ye be judged." Well, after 2000 years of judging others freely and unabashedly...

It's a joke, though. They feel like an oppressed group, because we won't legislate their narrow-minded beliefs, but that doesn't mean that they can't have them. Creationism may be dismissed as a pseudoscience, and, thus, public schools won't teach it, but nothing says you can't use the rest of the day outside of school to teach your children these beliefs. But then it comes back to that conversion crap. Yes, life should be 24-7 forced conversions and seven year-olds are ripe for the picking!

I'm sorry. I have seen where U2Bama is coming from in writing how it seems okay to convert to any other religion besides Christianity. I cannot support conversions merely because I cannot support the Christian denominations doing the converting. If the whole world became conservative and/or fundamentalist Christian, it would be an utter nightmare of epic proportions. We'd plunge back into the Dark Ages.

As a Christian who has zero confict between science and religion, I find it disturbing how flat out ignorant the religion has become. But I guess if it were "the end of the world," I could think of no other more diabolical way for it to go out.

Melon
 
BonoVoxSupastar said:
When it comes down to it every religion believes itself to be "the truth", right? But my question is this. If you are _____ religion and you believe your religion is the only way to God(and let's hope you believe in a loving god) how do you explain the fate of those individuals who live is a distant far off place who have never heard of your religion? Does your loving God ignore those folk? This has always been my issue with conversion. If they believe that their neighbor is going to hell because they don't believe in the same religion as them, then what happens to those who never got the chance to even learn about their religion? The God I believe in, wouldn't leave it to chance like that, so God may come in different forms.
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I am not of the belief that people who haven't heard the truth necessarily go to hell (they don't necessarily go to Heaven, either). The Bible implies that if you do not know right from wrong, then you are not held accountable. That is why children who are not old enough and do not understand the big issue of sin go to Heaven, as do mentally retarded people who have the same understanding issues. As for the perrson in some dark corner of teh world who has never heard the name "Jesus"? Well, the Bible tells us that this type of people have the law written on their hearts, and also that the truth is revealedin nature, and it seems to be implied that they are judged according to their response to what they do know of Christ.
 
melon,
Christians in this country are certainly not persecuted, when compared to the way Christians are slaughtered, imprisoned and tortured in other countries.

However, you are blind if you do not see that in the media, in the arts and in almost every area of American society, the Christian faith is constantly ridiculed and verbally "spat upon".
 
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Out of curiosity, what do you think happens to those who believe in God, but a generic God, one who exists but not necessarily through a church or an organised religion?
 
Well, I believe that the onl;y way to the Father is through the Son, Jesus Christ. Why do I believe this? Because Christ said it himself. The whole point about Christianity that really sets it apart from other belief systems is that salvation is based on what God has done for man, not what man can do for God. In other words, one million prayers a day will not "get you to heaven". God is 100% holy and cannot abide in theh presence of sin, so it follows that his requirement for man's entrance into Heaven is nothing short of complete perfection. No sin can abide in Heaven, or it wouldn't be perfect. Man can never work his way into perfection. However, when a person becomes a Christian, the Bible tells us that all sins, past, present, and future are forgiven. Not only that, but Christians now have a new nature - the nature of Christ. The Holy Spirit lives within the Christian. The Christian now has a new life; the life of Christ. The Christian's spirit has been regenerated and is now clean. That's why it is acceptable to God, because it has had the righteousness of Christ bestowed upon it. The Christian is still able to sin with his flesh, but the Christian's spirit is absolutely perfect, and that is the part that goes to Heaven and receives a new glorified body. So, to answer your question - if a person knows the difference between right and wrong, he is held accountable for his sin. If he spends his whole life working hard at getting to Heaven, he will never make it, because man's "goodness" isn't good enough. It's not perfect. However, if that man accepts Christ, and is given a new nature and His spirit is regenerated, then his spirit is perfect and is acceptable for entrance into Heaven.
 
80sU2isBest said:
However, you are blind if you do not see that in the media, in the arts and in almost every area of American society, the Christian faith is constantly ridiculed and verbally "spat upon".
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As someone who has been constantly ridiculed and verbally "spat upon" by Christianity, pardon me if I have a hard time feeling sorry for the schoolyard bully.

Maybe its about time Christianity looked at itself in the mirror and see what it has become. After all, it is kind of sad that religion, in general, has ceased to be seen as a movement for love and peace, but has changed into a movement for war, intolerance, and hatred. Yup...how ironic it is that morality is the inspiration for anti-discrimination laws, but the supposed bastion of morality, religion, is always exempt from them.

Anyhow, I'm sure that some people will interpret my comments as anti-Christian. It isn't my intention, but, rather, I pray for it to change.

Melon
 
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melon, if Christians have been hateful toward you and verbally spat upon you, then they are not following the commands fo Christ. More importantly, they are not letting Christ live through them, which is actually the whole point of Christianity. In fact, I would question the validity of these people's faiths.

However, you are getting off the subject. We are not talking about treatment of individuals. We are talking about the way religions are viewed and portrayed by society, and the fact is that Christianity is portrayed in the media as the buffoon's religion.
 
80sU2isBest said:
However, you are getting off the subject. We are not talking about treatment of individuals. We are talking about the way religions are viewed and portrayed by society, and the fact is that Christianity is portrayed in the media as the buffoon's religion.
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Well, when buffoons represent you, then that's what you get. Maybe we should tell people like Sen. Rick Santorum and Jerry Falwell to think before they speak. They provide easy to quote hysterical sound bites.

Melon
 
80sU2isBest said:
However, you are blind if you do not see that in the media, in the arts and in almost every area of American society, the Christian faith is constantly ridiculed and verbally "spat upon".
Click to expand...

Compared to many other religions, Christians living in Western countries face no persecution whatsoever. You talk about the portrayal of Christianity in the media, well last week the BBC aired a tv show which told the story of a Mosque training suicide bombers in the UK. The very next week a Mosque in Birmingham (where the tv show was set) was covered with racist graffiti and people who worship there were subject to verbal harrassment. When was the last time a Christian church was attacked because the media portrayed Christians as violent extremists?

Tell me: when was the last time you were persecuted because of your faith? Have you ever been physically attacked because of it? How many Christians do you know of who have been physically assaulted because they openly professed their religion? Are there any groups which campaign for all Christians to be thrown out of the United States? There are several who believe all Muslims should be removed from the US, presumably disregarding the fact that many Muslims in the US were actually born there.

I don't deny that there are many people who make fun of Christianity, but it isn't in any way comparable to the sort of mistreatment that many Muslims and Jews (to name only two examples) face in Western society.
 
FizzingWhizzbees said:


Compared to many other religions, Christians living in Western countries face no persecution whatsoever. You talk about the portrayal of Christianity in the media, well last week the BBC aired a tv show which told the story of a Mosque training suicide bombers in the UK. The very next week a Mosque in Birmingham (where the tv show was set) was covered with racist graffiti and people who worship there were subject to verbal harrassment. When was the last time a Christian church was attacked because the media portrayed Christians as violent extremists?

Tell me: when was the last time you were persecuted because of your faith? Have you ever been physically attacked because of it? How many Christians do you know of who have been physically assaulted because they openly professed their religion? Are there any groups which campaign for all Christians to be thrown out of the United States? There are several who believe all Muslims should be removed from the US, presumably disregarding the fact that many Muslims in the US were actually born there.

I don't deny that there are many people who make fun of Christianity, but it isn't in any way comparable to the sort of mistreatment that many Muslims and Jews (to name only two examples) face in Western society.
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Fizzing, read my previous post in which I stated that Christians are not persecuted in this country. What are you telling me these things for, when I stated that myself in an eariler post?
 
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melon said:


Well, when buffoons represent you, then that's what you get.
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ITA.

I'm ashamed to be part of the same religion as these people.
 
I'm not ashamed to be a Christian. i don't care what people say tehy do in the name of Christianity. I will never be ashamed to be a Christian.
 
80sU2isBest said:
I'm not ashamed to be a Christian. i don't care what people say tehy do in the name of Christianity. I will never be ashamed to be a Christian.
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Good for you 80s.

But so many people have become complacent (and I'm sorry to say, but the vast majority of them are what I consider fundamentalist Christians) and they're doing diddly squat to discredit these buffoons who have taken a revolutionary idea and turned it into something ugly and hateful. I'm not embarrassed by my religion; I am embarrassed by the people who have taken it and raped it upside down and sideways and I'm embarrassed by those people who support these fools and by those who sit back and watch them without saying a word.
 
80sU2isBest said:


Fizzing, read my previous post in which I stated that Christians are not persecuted in this country. What are you telling me these things for, when I stated that myself in an eariler post?
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I wasn't only talking to you, 80s. However, the post of yours I was responding to seemed to indicate that you felt Christians were extremely poorly treated in the United States, and I simply don't think that's true. I'm sure there are some people who mock Christianity, but I just think if any religion is going to express concern about it's treatment in Western society, it certainly shouldn't be Christianity.
 
Angela Harlem said:
Out of curiosity, what do you think happens to those who believe in God, but a generic God, one who exists but not necessarily through a church or an organised religion?
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Please, do not flame me for this statement people. I am only thinking out loud a bit. Couldn't a strong argument be made that Christ was here to free us from organized religion? That there is a higher law than the "church" that men have made?
 
I am not of the belief that people who haven't heard the truth necessarily go to hell (they don't necessarily go to Heaven, either).
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Seems like a harsh God. Denies his own children Heaven, because of where God placed them on the planet earth.
 
BonoVoxSupastar, did you even read the rest of my post in which I went on to explain my beliefs? It didn't have anything to do with God denying anyone Heaven because of where they live. Maybe you need to re-read it.
 
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