Religion as a Mental Illness

[beli]

The only thing this thread is an example of is wasted opportunity.

This is the first thread I have seen in FYM that opened with a concept that is balanced in terms of both sides of the religious/non religious argument. We could all have a bit of a giggle and then discuss. Are religious people fruitcakes? Are non religious people miserable bastards? If so, why? We could all discuss it calmly and rational as everyone was being highlighted in a not so flattering way. We would have been even in this one thread.

But instead, ulterior motives aside, a number of people have taken to rehashing the same old arguments. I don't care if the arguments are valid.

This could have been an opportunity to learn.

 

[BonosSaint]

Please explain. Pretend I'm an accountant and don't know anything about this topic.

Sorry, beli. Missed your post last time.

Best way to explain it is you are experiencing alpha just when you are about to fall asleep or when you begin to wake up, kind of the relaxed state when you start doing stream of consciousness thinking, when you get that idea for a great line of poetry that you have to write down (and you were stupid enough to write it in the dark and can't read it in the morning). Beta is your fully awake state.

 

[thrillme]

Wow, does this make U2 the most successful rock band of members with mental illness?

*This explains sooooo much*



Afros, mullets, Bono's dancing on Red Rocks, coming out on stage in giant, mirrorball lemon car?

Hmm, so has the ACLU spent a lot of time harassing people with mental illness all these years?

Sheesh, it's getting so you can blame everything on mental illness?

Kids are rowdy, must have ADD, give em ritalin.

 

[beli]

Best way to explain it is you are experiencing alpha just when you are about to fall asleep or when you begin to wake up, kind of the relaxed state when you start doing stream of consciousness thinking, when you get that idea for a great line of poetry that you have to write down (and you were stupid enough to write it in the dark and can't read it in the morning). Beta is your fully awake state.

Thank you. The clown in me finds it amusing that my awake state is beta (testing). Thank you for taking the time to explain it to me.

Interesting the difference between works of art created while using cocaine and opium (Coleridge).

I'm not familiar with this either, can you explain please? I have seen those photos of the webs spiders create whilst under the influence of various substances.

 

[BonosSaint]

Coleridge's Kubla Khan was supposedly written as a result of an opium dream ('course I wasn't there, so can't verify for certain.)

http://etext.lib.virginia.edu/stc/Coleridge/poems/Kubla_Khan.html

 

[beli]

Coleridge's Kubla Khan was supposedly written as a result of an opium dream ('course I wasn't there, so can't verify for certain.)

http://etext.lib.virginia.edu/stc/Coleridge/poems/Kubla_Khan.html

"As if this earth in fast thick pants were breathing,"

certainly sounds like some funny substances where involved.

Thanks for the link I hadn't read that poem before and heres me, for the past twenty years, thinking Frankie Goes To Hollywood were lyrical geniuseseses.

 

[beli]

So are you saying there is a difference between poems written while the author is in an alpha state and when an author is on drugs? Or do certain drugs induce an alpha state?

 

[A_Wanderer]

Yes I think that religion is a mental illness, it seems that any redeeming features can only be found when reason suceeds faith, this is a very rare occurance that only happens once every millenia or so and it is conditional on the progress that the culture has made on issues of the value, rights and freedom of man.

 

[BonosSaint]

Oh, I don't have a clue.

I'm inclined to think though that certain drugs such as opium will induce an alpha state.

 

[BonosSaint]

I think a lot of other things will trigger alpha--smell, memory, music. Perhaps the artist chooses to visit alpha more frequently or is more attuned to it.

Maybe that is the core of the original question, is most great art unhappy art because the artist is often unhappy, or just chooses to express unhappiness. I suppose the same could be said about the expression of religion. Perhaps since in the real world, we often are taught to repress our dark side, that is the side most vulnerable to subconscious expression.

Are the chemicals in our brain triggered by what we repress and express?

 

[verte76]

Since Coleridge was supposedly an opium addict, I wouldn't be surprised if it was writtten while he was high. This alpha state thing is interesting, I've never heard of it.

 

[BonosSaint]

A little more information on dopamine.

http://www.utexas.edu/research/asrec/dopamine.html

For a novice like me, this is pretty interesting, Melon. And somewhat troubling that our pain, our pleasure, our passions may all be created by chemicals, neurotransmitters. (I agree with you too on the pharmaceutical companies. My contempt for them is starting to know no bounds.) I was prescribed a cholestoral drug. One of the side effects for me appear to be vivid dreams. (not particularly interesting, just vivid) When I forget to take the drug, no vivid dreams. Take it...bingo!

And I agree with beli that this thread was a great opportunity for equal opportunity bashing of the religious and the nonreligious, to discuss the nature of happiness, unhappiness, sanity, insanity, passion and emotional flatness, manic creativity and cold logic, hyperactivity and calm. You can add romantic love to all this since it fits all the symptoms.

Maybe instead of discussions, we can all just discover what our predominant chemical is and post that. End of story.

(I'm going to crawl under the covers now in a fit of chemically controlled angst)

 

[beli]

Are the chemicals in our brain triggered by what we repress and express?

I, also, would like to know the answer to this question, please.

 

[beli]

Maybe instead of discussions, we can all just discover what our predominant chemical is and post that. End of story.

lol. I was even at the vampires yesterday. I could have asked for one more test while they were at it, if I had of though of it. lol.

 

[thrillme]

Yes I think that religion is a mental illness, it seems that any redeeming features can only be found when reason suceeds faith, this is a very rare occurance that only happens once every millenia or so and it is conditional on the progress that the culture has made on issues of the value, rights and freedom of man.

Value, rights and freedom of man?

Where do we even get the idea people, (gotta be PC and all) have rights, value?

Science doesn't tell us we have rights, or value, but some religions do.

Non-religious people have done a lot of harm too.

http://www.papillonsartpalace.com/endC.htm


"The best thing is to let Christianity die a natural death.... When understanding of the universe has become widespread... Christian doctrine will be convicted of absurdity.... Christianity has reached the peak of absurdity.... And that's why someday its structure will collapse.... ...the only way to get rid of Christianity is to allow it to die little by little.... Christianity the liar.... We'll see to it that the Churches cannot spread abroad teachings in conflict with the interests of the State." (p 49-52)

Hitler thought Christianity was a disease.

"Christianity is an invention of sick brains: one could imagine nothing more senseless, nor any more indecent way of turning the idea of the Godhead into a mockery.... .... When all is said, we have no reason to wish that the Italians and Spaniards should free themselves from the drug of Christianity. Let's be the only people who are immunised against the disease." (p 118 & 119)

Hitler's Secret Conversations 1941-1944 published by Farrar, Straus and Young, Inc.first edition, 1953.

A lot of people died or were put to death in communists countries, a philosophy based on no gods/religion.

The teens who shot a bunch of students at Columbine High School in the U.S. state of Colorado, were atheists.

All I mean by posting this, is that while some may argue religion may have done some bad things, caused some bad things, my point is so has the belief in no dieties/supernatural.

Flame away!!

btw, U2.com has interference beat on one thing, timing. I once started typing up a post on Zootopia, but I had to go do something took about 45 minutes, I came back, knowing I might have to retype it, and posted it. Posted succesfully, didn't time out. I hate that, and it's not just interference that this happens. Good or bad, the Zoo was made for people who like to type up long posts, and take a lot of time to do it.

I have to copy and paste so much at other boards.

 

[indra]

btw, U2.com has interference beat on one thing, timing. I once started typing up a post on Zootopia, but I had to go do something took about 45 minutes, I came back, knowing I might have to retype it, and posted it. Posted succesfully, didn't time out. I hate that, and it's not just interference that this happens. Good or bad, the Zoo was made for people who like to type up long posts, and take a lot of time to do it.

I have to copy and paste so much at other boards.

My first post in this thread.... and it's completely off the subject. (just as well, really.... )

Time out while posting here? Really? I've never timed out completely here while posting (although I have typed up long replies only to find out when I try to post that the thread has been closed Arrggghh....what a waste of effort and my invariably brilliant replies! ), and I've gone off and posted on other boards, engaged in chat conversations, cooked dinner, etc., all while working on a reply of some sort here. On the rare occasions I have to sign back in before it will let me post, I just sign in and then hit the back button until I'm back to the reply to thread window, and there is what I wrote, still waiting to be posted. Then all I have to do is hit submit reply again.

 

[echo0001]

History has proven to us time and again that you don't have to be a believer or a disbeliever to commit atrocity.

The mess of it all is that people who wish to do something that would ordinarily be considered beyond the beyond, twist a convenient religion into a justification. The only thing worse than that is that some people then come to believe their self-serving justification and take up the sick cause. This is not the fault of religion: it is a fault, a flaw of humanity that we can and will and do use a good thing as the argued basis for all sorts of evil and criminality.

(On a smaller-than-historic scale, many murderers also justify their actions with another thing we generally like to consider good--love. 'I loved her; I had to kill her. It was for her own good'--or variations thereof.)

 

[thrillme]

My first post in this thread.... and it's completely off the subject. (just as well, really.... )

Time out while posting here? Really? I've never timed out completely here while posting (although I have typed up long replies only to find out when I try to post that the thread has been closed Arrggghh....what a waste of effort and my invariably brilliant replies! ), and I've gone off and posted on other boards, engaged in chat conversations, cooked dinner, etc., all while working on a reply of some sort here. On the rare occasions I have to sign back in before it will let me post, I just sign in and then hit the back button until I'm back to the reply to thread window, and there is what I wrote, still waiting to be posted. Then all I have to do is hit submit reply again.

Wha? Really, I tried that, but all I get is the empty reply window.

Last night, I typed up this long post saying how Adam is a valuable and irreplaceable member of U2, and well it was a little long, took some time, and when I tried to post, I had to log back in, and had to redo it. Tried going back, but what I typed up was gone.

So far, Zootopia is the only message board I've posted at, that doesn't time out that way. I made a necklace out the membership card too. Found this silver chain that looks great with it.

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Back on topic, I agree with that Echo0001.