DaveC
Blue Crack Addict
How did this thread turn into a discussion on homosexuality?
pax said:Seriously...
Most gays are not snobby, neurotic, overdecorating gentrifiers, not are most conservative Christians insane or cruel.
I'm stating the obvious, I know, but apparently it needs to be stated.
Thanks.
beli said:I'm not gay nor am I religious nor am I a resident of the USA so I'm not overly interested in the gay versus USA brand of Christianity argument. I can understand the, umm, "grief" (for want of a much stronger word) but......
regardless of alterior motives this thread raised a topic of which I have no knowledge. And as my posts here are about me! me! me!I would like to continue the original discussion.
I can understand that people might view the original post to imply that religious people are fruitcakes and nonreligious people are depressed basketcases but I would still like to discuss this issue further.
Please
And yeah, like someone said, why the lack of happy art?
melon said:
This is partly my (very coy) response to society who, very earnestly and generally unintentionally, reduces sexuality to gross and unflattering banalities.
And this is my own response to that: reducing religion to gross and unflattering banalities. Science certainly has a very convincing explanation for why "prophets" have existed, and it's very curious how their "spiritual experiences" echo a very real epileptic disorder.
Melon
melon said:
I read insulting and ignorant comments on sexuality in this forum on a regular basis, whereas equally insulting and ignorant racist, anti-Semitic, or misogynist comments would be closed instantly. Then when I've requested such threads to be closed on the basis of ending such a double standard, I'm told to "lighten up." Knowing full well that I can't get my point across by writing racist or anti-Semitic threads, I thought I'd reduce religion to the same level that sexuality is reduced to here: as a "curiosity" devoid of all happiness and reduced to a misunderstood psychosis.
Originally posted by pax Seriously...
I think this could be a good and provocative topic to discuss, but it's obviously, in the space of four pages, gone far, far afield.
BonosSaint said:
Love your drama queen figure, Beli. First time in this thread I laughed.
So why do you think most great art is about pain, lost love, disenchantment or isolation (beyond the chemical balance thing)? I read a quote once where all happiness is alike, but
pain is individual. Perhaps because so few people question the source of their happiness and so many people question the source of their pain.
Sorry to take this thread beyond your original scope, Melon. But your source did reference Dostoevsky who was a wonderful writer. And there is as much theory or more on the "insanity" of artists. And many of us are grateful for that "insanity."
Part of it, I think, is that we are so conditioned to repress our pain that it must come out somewhere, hence the poetry we write and other art we create when we are in young angst and
in older angst. Art is the release that frees repressed pain and the release that conjures up the visions lying in our subconscious.
BonosSaint said:Part of it, I think, is that we are so conditioned to repress our pain that it must come out somewhere, hence the poetry we write and other art we create when we are in young angst and
in older angst. Art is the release that frees repressed pain and the release that conjures up the visions lying in our subconscious.
80sU2isBest said:Melon and Irvine, do you think the homosexual community is free of discriminatory behavior? If you do, watch the PBS documentary "Flag Wars" sometime. The basic synopsis is that affluent snobby homosexuals set their sights on taking over and "revitalizing" a poor minority neighborhood in Columbus, Ohio. When I say "revitalizing", I'm not talking about revitalizing for the sake of the people who live there; I'm talking about "revitalizing" by using strong arm tactics to try to force these minority people out of the homes they'd lived in for decades. The strong arm tactics included, but weren't limited to, pressuring city council to enforce extreme codes. One man was fined repeatedly for having a little sign hanging in from his porch that was carved in "African-Relief" style, while across the street, his neighbors proudly flew their Gay pride flag with no legal problems whatsoever. The head of this movement to force the poor people from their homes, a lesbian realtor named Nina, was a particular b**** who treated the poor people like absolute crap, and even referred to one lady who was dying of cirrhosis of the liver as an "idiot" for refusing to sell.
This documentary was intense, and very very sad. Watch it if ypu get a chance.
And don't bother telling me "Well, that kind of thing happens to gays, also", because as you know, 2 wrongs don't make a right, especially considering the fact that the victims in this case, poverty-stricken African Americans and Hispanics, have never had enough clout or financial resources to do something like that to any group of people.
And I know that some people who read this, will think that by mentioning this incident that I am being "homophobic", or even in the words of one particular person "fanning the flames of hatred", but really, I just wanted to present some of the gay community's discriminatory sins, as some of the homosexuals on this forum never hesitate to present the discriminatory sins of the "self-proclaimed" Christian community.
echo0001 said:
It's kinda gone right where Melon intended, I think...
BonosSaint said:And since the alpha state is more aligned with the subconscious
Irvine511 said:
you said it yourself: two wrongs don't make a right.
also: who cares? what does this have to do with anything? you've proved that certain gay people are no better or no worse than anyone else? is this supposed to be a revelation? why can't you make a point without stooping to degredate a culture? is it because you have no argument other than "gay people aren't perfect"?
80sU2isBest said:
Not with me, it hasn't. What Melon intended was to get Christians upset about the original topic, Religion As A Mental Illness. That didn't upset me greatly, because I give no creedence whatsoever to the idea. What I responded to was his incessant painting of conservative Christians as prejudicial jerks.
echo0001 said:
And?
You think other people don't get upset when all gays are painted as preverted, youth recruiting, threat-to-traditional-values freaks trying to destroy ... I don't know what they are supposed to be destroying this week but I'm sure it will be a social catastrophe of apocolytic proportions in the minds of some, who will more than likely include a certain number of conservative Christians.
I think somewhere earlier in this thread I dropped the phrase "fighting fire with fire". I believe Melon was trying to make a point about devaluing people. If you are not one of the people prone to the behavior outlined in the previous paragraph, I don't think you really need to be upset here.
But then again, it's your right to get hot under the collar if you like; I only hope that you consider walking in someone else shoes, trying to understand what they are doing and why.
I understand why Melon posted this thread; I've already stated my doubts that this would get results re. the double standard....
80sU2isBest said:Not with me, it hasn't. What Melon intended was to get Christians upset about the original topic, Religion As A Mental Illness. That didn't upset me greatly, because I give no creedence whatsoever to the idea. What I responded to was his incessant painting of conservative Christians as prejudicial jerks.
BonosSaint said:Sorry to take this thread beyond your original scope, Melon. But your source did reference Dostoevsky who was a wonderful writer. And there is as much theory or more on the "insanity" of artists. And many of us are grateful for that "insanity."
80sU2isBest said:
You miss my point, entirely echo - entirely.
I brought up Flag Wars not as a response to the original point of this thread, but as a response to something he said later in the thread and the many many times he has lumped all conservative Christians in the "prejudiced" group.
I have always been much more respectful of homosexuals than melon and Irvine have been of conservative Christians. I have said that I thought homosexuality was wrong, and that's it. They go off on rants about how evil and prejudiced conservative Christianity is and are often very insulting about it. If you can find times that I called homosexuals prejudicial, backwoods, hateful, evil demons from hell, please feel free to post it here. Don't bother looking; I never have. But that's the kind of thing they love to throw out there about conservative Christians. Meanwhile, people are jumping on my back for discussing one particular group of homosexuals.
Quite frankly, I'm a little sick and tired of it.
echo0001 said:
If you are not one of the people prone to the behavior outlined in the previous paragraph, I don't think you really need to be upset here.
ZeroDude said:all I want to point out is saying that religion is a mental illness is really as offensive to some as saying homosexulaity is a genetic defect
melon said:
Congratulations! You've figured out why I wrote this thread to begin with.
So the next time some religious fanatic wants to make some half-assed comment about homosexuality, I'll be able to refer them to this thread.
Melon
melon said:I've been swimming in the realm of academic discourse for so long that I no longer know what I really believe, if that's possible. I just know how to take a position--any position--and argue my case. I guess I should have become a defense lawyer?
Melon