Radical Islam...

wolfwill23 · 10-14-2002, 03:44 PM

What should be done. Really.

Dreadsox · 10-14-2002, 04:09 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by wolfwill23
What should be done. Really.

I for one think Radical anything is dangerous.......

Peace to all....

melon · 10-14-2002, 04:59 PM

1) A strengthening of secular government and education in these nations.
2) An end to the prevalent abject poverty in these nations.
3) Freedom of speech and press to allow dissent.

As it stands, these nations live under highly unstable, autocratic governments that suppress any dissemination of free thought. In turn, since these governments are so weak that they cannot even control the education of their populace, the people turn inward to educate, allowing those in charge to mold the youth into whatever they believe, whether it is correct or not. Strengthening this, these same people who educate are also the same people who are providing these very poor people with food, security, and stability; hence, establishing trust and allowing the fanatics to tell their flock to do *anything* they want. The people have no reason to see why they are lying, since they have provided for them in the past.

A strong, secular government will allow for a degree of professionalism that will not push for any one religion or another. One can be free to practice any form of Islam or any other religion as one would like. An end of poverty will cut off the reliance that people have on these fanatical groups, allowing them to instead trust the government. Freedom of speech and press will allow for more degrees of truth, albeit not perfect, but it is better than the insular society they are already living in.

Melon

wolfwill23 · 10-14-2002, 05:05 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dreadsox

I for one think Radical anything is dangerous.......

Peace to all....

Radical Islam seems to be the most dangerous group of radicals around today.

nbcrusader · 10-14-2002, 05:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by melon
A strong, secular government will allow for a degree of professionalism that will not push for any one religion or another. One can be free to practice any form of Islam or any other religion as one would like. An end of poverty will cut off the reliance that people have on these fanatical groups, allowing them to instead trust the government. Freedom of speech and press will allow for more degrees of truth, albeit not perfect, but it is better than the insular society they are already living in.

Melon

Great post Melon. A strong secular government would definitely be a solution, but that is a long ways away. To a great extent, there is a fear of the "Western" way of living.

I was in Egypt a few years back. While not a radical theocracy (Christians make up about 10% of the population, churches are allowed, Christians are even invited as tourists), it is still unlawful to proselytize in public.

My wife spent part of her teen years in Saudi Arabia. Westerners live in segregated compounds, away from the society at large. My wife has always said that the biggest fear in Saudi is a single, educated western woman.

We both met many good people in these countries.

V Nura · 10-14-2002, 07:29 PM

this is my 12 step plan...which remarkably only contains 8 steps

1.) secularization...is an excellent point
2.) education ....and I mean real education..not " hate americans, hate jews..here's your degree"
3.) the promotion of better treatment of women in islamic countries
4.)make it financially unviable to blow yourself up
5.) make them realize that killing jews, americans, aussies and frenchmen...is not going to aid any of their causes
6.) a plan that forces the arab world to invest in palestine..and build it's economy...there's enough money in the arab world to do it they just dont want to lose an issue that theyv'e been using as a pawn for their own interests for years.
7.) allow palestinians to settle in other arab countries ( presently the only arab country that allows them to settle is jordan..a US ally)
8.) Make a concerted effort to depolitcize islam...a bi g cause of terror is the marriage of religion and politics that's taking place in many islamic countries and schools etc etc.

now i'd like to point this out to ppl. My family lived in the middle east for a good amount of time. And the argument for abject povery is pretty lame. A lot of saudi's are better off than ppl living in the united states...the saudi government provides services such as health care etc etc. Also there are places like india, South africa, central america/south america..where poverty is a problem and yet terrorism isn't a problem. So if you ask me..abject poverty in and of itself isn't the cause of terrorism. A lot of rich saudi sheikhs fund terror as well.

nbcrusader · 10-14-2002, 07:41 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Arun V
6.) a plan that forces the arab world to invest in palestine..and build it's economy...there's enough money in the arab world to do it they just dont want to lose an issue that theyv'e been using as a pawn for their own interests for years.

Very well stated Arun V. There is certainly a deafening silence on point 6. With the enormity of oil wealth in the gulf area, it seems that Saudi foreign aid is limited to mosque building and free copies of the Quaran. Meanwhile, Palestinians are left with little ability to build their own economy.

Popmartijn · 10-15-2002, 03:37 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by wolfwill23

Radical Islam seems to be the most dangerous group of radicals around today.

Well, don't rule out radical catholics and protestants (in Northern Ireland), radical pro-lifers, radical Hindus (in India/Pakistan), etc. Maybe radical Islam is more visible now for all the media attention, but that does not mean it's more dangerous.

C ya!

Marty

Rono · 10-15-2002, 03:45 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by wolfwill23

Radical Islam seems to be the most dangerous group of radicals around today.

Hmm, TV preachers are dangerous too. First they claim that the islam is a dangerous and there need to be done about them and than the say, sorry i did not mean to insult muslims. So, millions of good

Christians are informed well about Muslims.

Dreadsox · 10-15-2002, 06:43 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Rono

Hmm, TV preachers are dangerous too. First they claim that the islam is a dangerous and there need to be done about them and than the say, sorry i did not mean to insult muslims. So, millions of good Christians are informed well about Muslims.

ROno would you be referring to Jerry Falwell's comments about "Mohammad being a terrorist"?

If you are, he did not apologize, he turned it back on CBS saying that he did not regret making the comments, but that he regretted that CBS aired them. That is not what I call an apology.

Rono · 10-15-2002, 07:49 AM

Here on the news they said he did not wanted to insult muslims.

So, tv preachers are dangerous,.....what a idioot.

wolfwill23 · 10-15-2002, 08:02 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Popmartijn

Well, don't rule out radical catholics and protestants (in Northern Ireland), radical pro-lifers, radical Hindus (in India/Pakistan), etc. Maybe radical Islam is more visible now for all the media attention, but that does not mean it's more dangerous.

C ya!

Marty

Uh, radical Catholics and Protestants aren't leveling high rises in other countries. They stick to very specific targets which I think makes them less dangerous than radical muslims. The radical muslims attack in any country, at any time, killing anybody.

wolfwill23 · 10-15-2002, 08:07 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Rono

Hmm, TV preachers are dangerous too. First they claim that the islam is a dangerous and there need to be done about them and than the say, sorry i did not mean to insult muslims. So, millions of good Christians are informed well about Muslims.

I havn't read the Koran and I didn't see Farwell's comments (I did read them in the paper though) but wasn't Farwell was referring to some parts of the Koran that one could consider violent?

Also, for somebody to say something over television can't be compared with killing thousands of innocent people. Don't even go there.

Indigo · 10-15-2002, 10:33 AM

The only reason people find things dangerous is that they are illadvised on the situations which are occuring. The opinions gathered by some are taken into multiple views. Therefore nothing really is dangerous unless you happen to stand on the opposed side of the issue.

But, if you would like to get technical, everything is dangerous in its own. To state whether or not something is more radical than another is ludicrous.

For now, I think that it would be safe to be better informed on issues than to happily point fingers.

nbcrusader · 10-15-2002, 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by wolfwill23
I havn't read the Koran and I didn't see Farwell's comments (I did read them in the paper though) but wasn't Farwell was referring to some parts of the Koran that one could consider violent?

Also, for somebody to say something over television can't be compared with killing thousands of innocent people. Don't even go there.

Setting aside the fact the comment was made by Falwell, the earliest days of Islam (Mohamed�s trips between Mecca and Medina) were marked by bloodshed (converting the locals to the new monotheistic teachings in a nomadic polytheistic society).

diamond · 10-15-2002, 11:42 AM

Good post Arun-

I also think-

Radical/Extemests of any movement need to be removed..

-Hatemongers of the white race
-The (Timothy McVieghs) of every race.
-Radical gun fanatics..

ect
ect
ect

DB9

BAW · 10-15-2002, 11:46 AM

I agree

Quote:

Originally posted by diamond
Good post Arun-

I also think-

Radical/Extemests of any movement need to be removed..

-Hatemongers of the white race
-The (Timothy McVieghs) of every race.
-Radical gun fanatics..

ect
ect
ect

DB9

Rono · 10-15-2002, 01:33 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by nbcrusader

Setting aside the fact the comment was made by Falwell, the earliest days of Islam (Mohamed�s trips between Mecca and Medina) were marked by bloodshed (converting the locals to the new monotheistic teachings in a nomadic polytheistic society).

Was that in the day`s of the crusades ?You know, the peacefull christian trips to the midlle east ?

nbcrusader · 10-15-2002, 03:09 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Rono
Was that in the day`s of the crusades ?You know, the peacefull christian trips to the midlle east ?

[Adjusting sarcasm filter] � No actually the Crusades took place centuries later.

Dreadsox · 10-15-2002, 05:27 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by nbcrusader

[Adjusting sarcasm filter] � No actually the Crusades took place centuries later.

SO is it fair to equate the Crusaders with Terrorists?

10-14-2002, 03:44 PM	#1
wolfwill23 War Child Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: New York, NY Posts: 637 Local Time: 10:58 AM	Radical Islam... What should be done. Really. __________________

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10-14-2002, 04:59 PM	#3
melon ONE love, blood, life Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Toronto, Ontario Posts: 11,782 Local Time: 05:58 AM	1) A strengthening of secular government and education in these nations. 2) An end to the prevalent abject poverty in these nations. 3) Freedom of speech and press to allow dissent. As it stands, these nations live under highly unstable, autocratic governments that suppress any dissemination of free thought. In turn, since these governments are so weak that they cannot even control the education of their populace, the people turn inward to educate, allowing those in charge to mold the youth into whatever they believe, whether it is correct or not. Strengthening this, these same people who educate are also the same people who are providing these very poor people with food, security, and stability; hence, establishing trust and allowing the fanatics to tell their flock to do anything they want. The people have no reason to see why they are lying, since they have provided for them in the past. A strong, secular government will allow for a degree of professionalism that will not push for any one religion or another. One can be free to practice any form of Islam or any other religion as one would like. An end of poverty will cut off the reliance that people have on these fanatical groups, allowing them to instead trust the government. Freedom of speech and press will allow for more degrees of truth, albeit not perfect, but it is better than the insular society they are already living in. Melon

10-14-2002, 07:29 PM	#6
V Nura Refugee Join Date: Jun 2001 Posts: 1,760 Local Time: 11:58 AM	this is my 12 step plan...which remarkably only contains 8 steps 1.) secularization...is an excellent point 2.) education ....and I mean real education..not " hate americans, hate jews..here's your degree" 3.) the promotion of better treatment of women in islamic countries 4.)make it financially unviable to blow yourself up 5.) make them realize that killing jews, americans, aussies and frenchmen...is not going to aid any of their causes 6.) a plan that forces the arab world to invest in palestine..and build it's economy...there's enough money in the arab world to do it they just dont want to lose an issue that theyv'e been using as a pawn for their own interests for years. 7.) allow palestinians to settle in other arab countries ( presently the only arab country that allows them to settle is jordan..a US ally) 8.) Make a concerted effort to depolitcize islam...a bi g cause of terror is the marriage of religion and politics that's taking place in many islamic countries and schools etc etc. now i'd like to point this out to ppl. My family lived in the middle east for a good amount of time. And the argument for abject povery is pretty lame. A lot of saudi's are better off than ppl living in the united states...the saudi government provides services such as health care etc etc. Also there are places like india, South africa, central america/south america..where poverty is a problem and yet terrorism isn't a problem. So if you ask me..abject poverty in and of itself isn't the cause of terrorism. A lot of rich saudi sheikhs fund terror as well.

10-15-2002, 07:49 AM	#11
Rono Rock n' Roll Doggie VIP PASS Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: the Netherlands Posts: 6,163 Local Time: 11:58 AM	Here on the news they said he did not wanted to insult muslims. So, tv preachers are dangerous,.....what a idioot.

10-15-2002, 10:33 AM	#14
Indigo The Fly Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Arkansas, USA Posts: 52 Local Time: 04:58 AM	The only reason people find things dangerous is that they are illadvised on the situations which are occuring. The opinions gathered by some are taken into multiple views. Therefore nothing really is dangerous unless you happen to stand on the opposed side of the issue. But, if you would like to get technical, everything is dangerous in its own. To state whether or not something is more radical than another is ludicrous. For now, I think that it would be safe to be better informed on issues than to happily point fingers.

10-15-2002, 11:42 AM	#16
diamond ONE love, blood, life Join Date: May 2002 Location: Tempe, Az USA Posts: 12,856 Local Time: 03:58 AM	Good post Arun- I also think- Radical/Extemests of any movement need to be removed.. -Hatemongers of the white race -The (Timothy McVieghs) of every race. -Radical gun fanatics.. ect ect ect DB9