questions for canadians... perhaps brits too.

[Zoomerang96]

this website infuriates me to no end.

http://members.aol.com/xpus/ForQCsep.html

the man clearly has no idea... none of what canada is about.

the kicker is "would canadians feel ok if their head of state was from the united states instead of england".

WE'VE NEVER BEEN PART OF THE UNITED STATES.

he does have a point though. quebec should separate, if they do indeed want to. the sooner the better, might i add.

so my questions are:

1) would you rather canada had a head of state in britain or america? or do you feel strongly that we should abolish the monarchy?

2) do you think quebec should be separated from canada?

3) what would you say to the creator of this website in question, if you had the chance?

i realize this is but one man, and not a large majority. nevertheless, it brings up bigger questions that need to be addressed.

personally, i'm sick to the teeth of seeing what canada has become. as people in europe have told me personally

"it's amazing to us how your country is the only one who celebrates their past by erasing their historical roots. noone else does that."

so fucking true.

there's an immigrant who recently had the balls to sue canada because he had to swear an oath of allegiance to the crown in order to acquire citizenship.

THEN DON'T FUCKING MOVE HERE.

can you imagine the reaction in america if this were an issue?

so we have british roots. what's wrong with that? is canada not allowed to be proud of what got them to where they are today?

this is NOT a rant against immigration, or anything of the like. this is me at my most disgusted at the pathetic politicians and spineless cowards who are constantly willing to bend over backwards to satisfy political correction.

haha. wow. none of this even makes sense. my apologies for this. not really, though of course.

if you don't like canada, don't go there. it's as simple as that.

that applies to quebec as well. if you want out, i'd be happy to see the separatists to the door.

 

[diamond]

you're kinda mad, huh?

 

[snowbunny00774]

Personally I love Canada and am waiting for the day I can swear allegiance to Canada, not the British Monarchy.

That said, apart from changing the oath to reflect my love for this country, I don't see the need to abolish other ties to the Monarchy.

 

[anitram]

1) would you rather canada had a head of state in britain or america? or do you feel strongly that we should abolish the monarchy?

The monarchy is absurd, to be honest. I am in favour of abolishing it because it's really outlived its usefulness. For example, last week I read this:

Prince William's popularity is greatest among the younger generation, with 70 percent of 18- to 24-year-olds favouring him as the next king, compared to just 47 percent of 55- to 64-year-olds.

The groundswell of support appears to have been helped by his rekindled romance with commoner Kate Middleton.

Commoner?? What fucking century are we living in? Nevermind that her family is loaded beyond belief, but hey, they don't own half of Kent, so they must be dirt. As one of my best friends, who is English and lives in England commented, "But that's England for you: wealth doesn't matter a jot, all that counts is your family ancestry and your class. It also tells you everything you need to know about journalism over here - a huge number of our journalists get their jobs because "daddy" owns the paper, or plays polo with the owner. But even with all of that, you still have to be impressed by the 18th century snobbery!"

That doesn't mean that Canada should sever historical ties with England or minimize them - I just think the monarchy is an outdated, embarrassing system of millionaires on welfare that is contrary to modernity (the fact they are still not permitted to be on the throne and marry Catholics is an affront to basic human rights) and stands for many, many ugly things about our world, from colonialism to this notion of classes of citizenry. It needs to go.

I don't want an American president. If I wanted to be American, I could actually really easily do so. I was thisclose to accepting a position in New York and never looking back.

2) do you think quebec should be separated from canada?

This is a tough one for me. I think if they want to go, it isn't really for us to keep them forcibly. BUT if they want to go, they don't get to go on their terms. This means they don't get to drag down our currency, they can feel free to take their share of the national debt with them (what is it, some 24%?), and so on. Given that Quebec gets large amounts of federal moneys in terms of transfers and so on, I don't think the populace there has really considered the impact of separation. When it hits them squarely in the ass, it will probably result in continued federalism.

3) what would you say to the creator of this website in question, if you had the chance?

He is an idiot. Actually maybe I wouldn't go this far. I think he's just your average Joe who hasn't really thought out what a change of borders means in terms of international law, what economic repercussions there would be and so on. The Americans would certainly benefit greatly from having English Canada join them, because of our vast natural resources, particularly oil and fresh water. It would also make elections easier to be won by the Democrats. That said, thanks but no thanks.

 

[elevated_u2_fan]

I personally find the choice of background this guy chose to be his biggest failure...

Note to all douche bags: If you want to make a professional looking website don't use a background that makes it look like some emo kid's myspace page.

 

[Zoomerang96]

democrats are BARELY less disgusting than republicans, anitram. i imagine you'd agree?

nice responses, nonetheless.

if it was up to me, we'd have kept the red ensign. funny... it hasn't kept australia or new zealand from having their own culture or identity.

 

[Zoomerang96]

Personally I love Canada and am waiting for the day I can swear allegiance to Canada, not the British Monarchy.

That said, apart from changing the oath to reflect my love for this country, I don't see the need to abolish other ties to the Monarchy.

i'm extremely backwards in my thinking, i'll admit.

but i prefer to be part of a bigger "family" so to speak. a british empire, in other words. i'm not even taking the piss on this, i'm quite serious though perhaps my tongue... might be in cheek.

i cannot tell the difference anymore. ha.

i definitely understand you're opinion though, and i imagine i'd share it if i weren't an idiot.

 

[anitram]

democrats are BARELY less disgusting than republicans, anitram. i imagine you'd agree?

I've said that many times, definitely.

I'll give them credit for generally being less interested in limiting your freedom in the bedroom and between your legs. And I think they have some of the right ideas but are completely impotent when it comes to execution. Pandering to the centre never got anything done and if Tommy Douglas was interested in behaving like a democrat we'd never have our healthcare system.

But it brings up another good point - we are not a 2-party system, nor should we strive to be one. Also interesting is how much progress the Greens have made in Canada in recent years. I have not voted for them nor do I think I would, but I think they have some good ideas and it is in the best interest of the country to have them on our political landscape. I would be happy to see them win a few seats for the first time.

We'd surely lose the Liberals and the NDP in any "union" with the US and that alone should be reason enough to never, ever, ever join.

 

[Slipstream]

I don't even know where to start with that idiot's website. It's typical it's some guy that has absolutely know clue about Canadians, Canada, and how we feel or think.

"To this day, English Canadians insist on inflicting the "Queen" of England upon the conquered peoples of French Canada (Québecois and Acadiens)"

There hasn't been a Queen of England since Queen Anne, 400 years ago. The head of state or Sovereign of Canada is the Queen of Canada, Elizabeth II. This is completely independent from any other country including the UK. It's law and part of the supreme law in Canada which is the Constitution of Canada. How can Canadians "inflict" the Queen on French Canada when French Canada is a part of Canada and the Queen is the embodiment of that?

2)I'm kind of torn on Quebec seperation, I don't want them to but if the majority of the people want to go, then go.

3)I'd tell him to get stuffed and mind his own business.



As you mentioned, "it's amazing to us how your country is the only one who celebrates their past by erasing their historical roots. noone else does that." I'm totally in agreement with this. As for that guy that tried to sue Canada for not swearing allegiance to the Crown. It didn't go anywhere I think, but how dare he. If he wants to move here and change our system after he has become a citizen then go for it, but until then, piss off and go back to where you came from.

And, "so we have british roots. what's wrong with that? is canada not allowed to be proud of what got them to where they are today?" Exactly, why does it seem a crime to completely ignore that Canada was a British created country, with British institutions that still exist today. Our governmental system, military, police, courts, are all British in creation. A majority of people in Canada can trace their ancestral roots to the British Isles. Why can't this be embraced as a very important aspect of why Canada is such a great country today. It should be celebrated or at the very least, respected.

Quebec's separation would so disrupt Canada that it is likely that several or even all of the remaining provinces would apply for statehood in the United States, and thus fulfill, at last, the dream of the Founding Fathers: a united Anglo-America under the Constitution of the United States.

For Queen and Country. Over my dead body!

 

[Zoomerang96]

nicely put, slipstream.

my sentiments, more or less.

 

[Zoomerang96]

Pandering to the centre never got anything done and if Tommy Douglas was interested in behaving like a democrat we'd never have our healthcare system.

ha, no kidding.

i look at the democrats as being the party who will damage their country a little bit less.

though to be fair, after 8 years of GWB anything will be a massive MASSIVE improvement.

another thing i forgot to mention earlier was how much it bothers me when canadians brag about the war of 1812,

"oh WE kicked their ass! WE burned their white house! WE beat the americans!"

just who are "we", pray tell? canada wasn't even a country in 1812, and unless you were a soldier who saw active duty during that time, "we" would have to mean the british.

and don't even get me started on dieppe and world war 1...

 

[Slipstream]

Personally I love Canada and am waiting for the day I can swear allegiance to Canada, not the British Monarchy.

That said, apart from changing the oath to reflect my love for this country, I don't see the need to abolish other ties to the Monarchy.

Well unless you're in the military, or in certain areas of gov't, or becoming a citizen then you don't have to "swear an allegiance" to anyone, and actually it's an Oath of Citizenship.

If you did or will make the Oath then you do "swear an allegiance" to Canada. The Sovereign is our head of state and the embodiment of Canada, where all laws flow from. What would be better to make an Oath to than the entity that all laws and citizenship flow from? To make an oath to just the country of Canada doesn't make any sense, as the Queen is the embodiment of the country, in other words, she is Canada.

With that said, the Oath IS to Canada. It's to the entity that is the guardian of the highest law in the land, the Constitution of Canada. It's also to "faithfully observe the laws of Canada and fulfil my duties as a Canadian citizen."

Oath - I swear (or affirm) that I will be faithful and bear true allegiance to Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth II, Queen of Canada, Her Heirs and Successors, and that I will faithfully observe the laws of Canada and fulfil my duties as a Canadian citizen.

^^^That is thoroughly an Oath to Canada.

 

[financeguy]

if you don't like canada, don't go there. it's as simple as that.

What you conveniently forget is that this cuts both ways.

If you love the British Monarch so much, perhaps it is you yourself that should consider relocating to Britain, where I'm sure that she and her Greek husband will welcome your forelock-tugging, bowing and scraping.

Also, have you consulted the original inhabitants of Canada as to their views?

 

[Zoomerang96]

Re: Re: questions for canadians... perhaps brits too.

What you conveniently forget is that this cuts both ways.

If you love the British Monarch so much, perhaps it is you yourself that should consider relocating to Britain, where I'm sure that she and her Greek husband will welcome your forelock-tugging, bowing and scraping.

Also, have you consulted the original inhabitants of Canada as to their views?

fair enough.

i don't think you understood my point, and i don't blame you considering it was written under the heavy influence of rage at the time.

canada is very much a hypocrisy and will be destined to have identity problems.

 

[Zoomerang96]

Re: Re: questions for canadians... perhaps brits too.

What you conveniently forget is that this cuts both ways.

If you love the British Monarch so much, perhaps it is you yourself that should consider relocating to Britain, where I'm sure that she and her Greek husband will welcome your forelock-tugging, bowing and scraping.

Also, have you consulted the original inhabitants of Canada as to their views?

fair enough.

i don't think you understood my point, and i don't blame you considering it was written under the heavy influence of rage at the time.

canada is very much a hypocrisy and will almost likely always have identity problems.

 

[Slipstream]

Re: Re: questions for canadians... perhaps brits too.

What you conveniently forget is that this cuts both ways.

If you love the British Monarch so much, perhaps it is you yourself that should consider relocating to Britain, where I'm sure that she and her Greek husband will welcome your forelock-tugging, bowing and scraping.

The position, job, a major part of the Executive of Canada and Parliament of Canada, as set out in the Constitution of Canada, the Sovereign, is not British. It is Canadian 100%. The Queen is not a citizen of any country, but by blood her background is of many.

 

[financeguy]

Re: Re: Re: questions for canadians... perhaps brits too.

but by blood her background is of many.

Primarily German, I believe.

 

[Zoomerang96]

but most importantly... DIVINELY introduced into this world.

seriously though, when did monarchs around europe stop believing that to be the case?

 

[financeguy]

but most importantly... DIVINELY introduced into this world.

seriously though, when did monarchs around europe stop believing that to be the case?

Prince Philip is worshipped as a God in Tana. To be fair to him he seems to have dealt quite tactfully with these people.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prince_Philip_movement

 

[Vincent Vega]

Re: Re: Re: Re: questions for canadians... perhaps brits too.

Primarily German, I believe.

They can keep her.

 

[Vincent Vega]

but most importantly... DIVINELY introduced into this world.

seriously though, when did monarchs around europe stop believing that to be the case?

In "Germany" in 1077 after the walk to Canossa, of sorts.

 

[yolland]

To make an oath to just the country of Canada doesn't make any sense

As an American, I'm entirely indifferent to the specifics of how your Oath of Citizenship is worded. But I don't understand why (hypothetically) amending the procedure so as to swear allegiance to the country itself would inherently "not make any sense." When a new US citizen takes our Oath of Allegiance, that is precisely what s/he swears allegiance to--"the Constitution and laws of the United States of America." Not the person of the President or any other individual. Why would that be nonsensical?

 

[vaz02]

As a brit i feel nothing for canada, so if they decided to go their seperate ways it could not bother me however Auz is an entierely seperate issue.

 

[snowbunny00774]

As an American, I'm entirely indifferent to the specifics of how your Oath of Citizenship is worded. But I don't understand why (hypothetically) amending the procedure so as to swear allegiance to the country itself would inherently "not make any sense." When a new US citizen takes our Oath of Allegiance, that is precisely what s/he swears allegiance to--"the Constitution and laws of the United States of America." Not the person of the President or any other individual. Why would that be nonsensical?

Thank you for expressing that better than I could have.

I do not feel that British Monarchy encompasses all that Canada is, and I don't feel that they are inherently the same when it comes to a Canadian Identity. While the Monarchy and Canada's ties to it are an integral part of a Canadian Identity, it is by no means the only thing that contributes to it.

I would love nothing better than to be able to swear allegiance to the Nation of Canada, and that I would observe the laws of Canada and fulfil my duties as a Canadian citizen while taking my Oath of Citizenship.

I have no desire to swear allegiance to a guardian of this nation, however, by swearing allegiance to Canada as a Nation it would encompass many things, including the relationship with the monarchy.

It might be an Oath of Citizenship, however it would require me to swear allegiance to Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth II, Queen of Canada, Her Heirs and Successors.

In my time here, I have fallen in love with so much more about this country than the Colonial influence on military, law, courts and government.



Oath - I swear (or affirm) that I will be faithful and bear true allegiance to Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth II, Queen of Canada, Her Heirs and Successors, and that I will faithfully observe the laws of Canada and fulfil my duties as a Canadian citizen.

 

[elevated_u2_fan]

As a brit i feel nothing for canada, so if they decided to go their seperate ways it could not bother me however Auz is an entierely seperate issue.

No love for Canada eh?

 

[Zoomerang96]

why OZ and not canada, vaz? just curious...

 

[Earnie Shavers]

if it was up to me, we'd have kept the red ensign. funny... it hasn't kept australia or new zealand from having their own culture or identity.

There's barking here every now and then for a change in the flag. I absolutely agree that your history is your history, it's vitally important and you shouldn't ever deny it or try to change it. I'm all for keeping the flag the way it is and recognising our 'British Empire' past in many, many other more meaningful ways, however:

a) Nations grow and evolve and I can't think of any good reason other than "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" as to why Australia couldn't/shouldn't have an Australian head of state, something I most certainly look forward to and expect to see in my lifetime (it very nearly happened almost 10yrs ago, but was pretty much sabotaged by our very conservative and very staunch monarchist prime minister of the time), and,

b) I think the idea of a monarchy is just utterly ridiculous in the 21st Century in any real terms. A strong historical link, yes. A mascot, yes. A tourist attraction worth billions a year, sure. None of those three though mean a thing when you are talking about the historical links between Australia and the UK. The link certainly isn't with the monarchy - something which I don't think anyone here under 50 has any identification with at all - and that constitutional link does not need to be maintained for the historical and symbolic links to remain.

But there's no need to rush or do it just for the sake of it, and most certainly no need to try and wipe what is a (the) key part of our history and culture aside. If the country naturally evolves that way, it makes perfect sense.

 

[Axver]

There's barking here every now and then for a change in the flag.

It seems to me that Australia's in absolutely no hurry to change its flag at least in part because of how it is Australianised, with the seven-point star in the bottom left, and the fact that besides the Aboriginal flag, there is no real alternative (and the Aboriginal flag seems just as divisive as having the Union Jack in the top left corner). However, I expect New Zealand to change its flag in my lifetime. Two reasons. Firstly, to avoid confusion with Australia - we've come a long way from possibly being involved in Federation. Secondly and more importantly, I think most Kiwis, especially younger ones like myself, identify much more with the silver fern flag. It is actually symbolic of New Zealand, whereas a bland flag with the Southern Cross and Union Jack doesn't do much for us. That's why I think it's important Australia has the seven-point star; there is no equivalent on the Kiwi flag, and I'm sure if there were a silver fern on it, the impetus to change would not be as considerable. Personally, if I had a flagpole, I would fly the silver fern without any hesitation. While our current flag may be representative of some of our post-colonisation history, I feel that the silver fern flag unites our entire history. Plus it looks damn good.

Which, getting back to the topic, makes me wonder how things work in Canada. To me, the current flag is very symbolic of the place. It makes me think of Canada in its entirety, not just the English or French or First Nations. I remember when I first saw the old one and it didn't evoke anything like that. But that's the impression of someone from the other end of the world who's never been closer to Canada than visiting Boston, so I'm curious as to how Canadians relate to both flags.

As for the monarchy, the entire institution strikes me as outdated, and the sooner Australia, Canada, and New Zealand become republics, the better. That doesn't mean any heritage will or should be lost, just that the monarchy's historical relevance has ceased to translate to present or future relevance.

 

[anitram]

I remember when I first saw the old one and it didn't evoke anything like that. But that's the impression of someone from the other end of the world who's never been closer to Canada than visiting Boston, so I'm curious as to how Canadians relate to both flags.

I think maybe this is a regional thing in Canada. I know people out in the Maritimes and Newfoundland see the Union Jack flying around a lot more than here. I can honestly say I've seen it maybe a handful of times in the 17 years I've lived in Ontario.

It's my view that most people really like the maple leaf. It's become a very recognizable symbol globally and although I know that there were lots of complaints when they first came up with the design (famously that the leaf is red so that means it's actually dead), but I would say it's probably nearly universally liked at this point?

 

[vaz02]

why OZ and not canada, vaz? just curious...

Dunno really, i just feel no love for Canada. I assume its because Britain discovered and create oz from scrach.