questions for canadians... perhaps brits too.

[Zoomerang96]

actually anitram, i believe a lot of quebecois didn't appreciate the design because it was red and white as opposed to blue and white.

red + white = england, you see...

i'm not making this up either, i did read this somewhere as an argument.

 

[anitram]

actually anitram, i believe a lot of quebecois didn't appreciate the design because it was red and white as opposed to blue and white.

red + white = england, you see...

i'm not making this up either, i did read this somewhere as an argument.

I think you're right, actually.

But Quebec will find fault with pretty much everything.

 

[snowbunny00774]

but I would say it's probably nearly universally liked at this point?

I love that maple leaf! I've been looking for a particular style for a while for a tattoo. Even my cousins that have fallen in love with Canada through regular visits keep a keen eye for the Canadian flag when they're at home or elsewhere on vacation and don't hesitate to start chatting to people about it. So simple, beautiful and recognizable.

 

[Axver]

It's my view that most people really like the maple leaf. It's become a very recognizable symbol globally and although I know that there were lots of complaints when they first came up with the design (famously that the leaf is red so that means it's actually dead), but I would say it's probably nearly universally liked at this point?

I'm pretty confident that if I went around asking people what their favourite flag is, Canada's would appear in pretty much every top five. It's just below the Welsh and silver fern flags for me (and incidentally, my favourite version of the silver fern flag is similar to Canada's flag).

Dunno really, i just feel no love for Canada. I assume its because Britain discovered and create oz from scrach.

40,000 years of Aboriginal history would take exception to your second sentence.

 

[GibsonGirl]

I think maybe this is a regional thing in Canada. I know people out in the Maritimes and Newfoundland see the Union Jack flying around a lot more than here. I can honestly say I've seen it maybe a handful of times in the 17 years I've lived in Ontario.

It's my view that most people really like the maple leaf. It's become a very recognizable symbol globally and although I know that there were lots of complaints when they first came up with the design (famously that the leaf is red so that means it's actually dead), but I would say it's probably nearly universally liked at this point?

That's true about Newfoundland - I see the Union Jack every day. Two prominent spots where I see it are in front of my university and in front of the CBC head office. Even our library is named after the Queen! Quite a few people fly the Union Jack where my parents live. Sometimes I even see houses that don't fly the flag of Canada at all - just Newfoundland's flag and the Union Jack. I don't really know why this is the case (and no, they're not Brits). Possibly it's because Newfoundland joined Canada much later than the other provinces? Some of the older generations here still feel very bitter about joining with Canada.

I, for one, love the maple leaf flag.

As for swearing an oath of allegiance to the Crown...it doesn't bother me. I find it completely absurd that someone tried to sue because he had to pledge an oath to the Queen. If he's making such a big deal over something as minor as that, he obviously doesn't realise what a privilege it is to be a citizen here. I obviously accept that some people are strongly against the monarchy, and I can understand why some would feel a bit resentful about the oath, but to SUE THE COUNTRY over it? That's ridiculous.

I'm going to be a full-fledged citizen of Canada in two years' time. I don't mind at all that I have to swear an oath to the Queen (even though my thoughts on the monarchy are mixed). At the end of the day, it will simply be an honour to be considered a citizen of Canada.

 

[snowbunny00774]

Unfortunately I don't feel enough home grown people know enough about the history they are a part of. That's why I want the Oath of Citizenship - swearing allegiance part, I take to be reflective of a Nation as opposed to a guardian.

I'd be having to swear allegiance to a guadian that most people know nothing about by virtue of having been born here.

I agree, the suing is ridiculous. I also still feel that if the majority of Canada feels there should be ties to the monarchy then they should remain. I myself just desperately want to take an Oath of Citizenship that includes swearing allegiance to Canada the Nation, including all the things that make Canada unique.

 

[Canadiens1131]

Couple things:

• I don't give a toss about the monarchy, as an English Quebecer/Canadian, and I doubt many Canadians do anymore
• Separation in Quebec is a non-issue at the moment; the provincial government has been nurturing a burgeoning technology industry in the last decade as they figured out young people want jobs, not a separate country or an economic depression
• There is still regionalism in Canada; Maratimers identify heavily with their culture, Quebecers with their varied heritage, uh, I'm sure Ontario residents identify with whatever culture they can scrounge up among the bureaucracy, and the prairie provinces and Vancouver can bugger off, so, yeah

 

[vaz02]

40,000 years of Aboriginal history would take exception to your second sentence.

Well Modern Oz from scratch then. The Australia we see today bears little to no reflection to its 40,000 year past tbh.

 

[elevated_u2_fan]

But Quebec will find fault with pretty much everything.

lol

 

[Zoomerang96]

there's a good reason why so many people in the west can't stand quebec, and it has nothing to do with us speaking english and them speaking french.

 

[elevated_u2_fan]

The East Coast hates the West Coast, the West Coast hates the East Coast and everybody hates Ontario...

 

[GibsonGirl]

The East Coast hates the West Coast, the West Coast hates the East Coast and everybody hates Ontario...

Newfoundland hates the Mainland. But Fort McMurray's right on, b'y!

 

[Zoomerang96]

Newfoundland hates the Mainland. But Fort McMurray's right on, b'y!

ha and just why might that be...

they might as well rename fort mcmurray new newfoundland.

 

[Irvine511]

i, for one, don't like the Maple Leaf.

but then, i'm an American who's lived in europe and traveled extensively across the UK and encountered far too many canadians with the flag affixed to every conceivable article of clothing and luggage and seem to think that this gets them some sort of brownie points with the host country when, in actually, the euros think it's a little strange.

but that's just me.

do like the national anthem, though. i made myself learn the words when i used to go to Hartford Whaler games as a kid.



i'll show myself out.

 

[anitram]

i, for one, don't like the Maple Leaf.

but then, i'm an American who's lived in europe and traveled extensively across the UK and encountered far too many canadians with the flag affixed to every conceivable article of clothing and luggage and seem to think that this gets them some sort of brownie points with the host country when, in actually, the euros think it's a little strange.

Frankly I find the Mountain Equipment Co-op with the flag affixed to it stuff to be obnoxious.

But I also lived in Europe and I can't tell you how many times people would come up to me and say "thank God you're Canadians." This happened in the UK, but especially so in France. I also went to the Netherlands with a legal group last year, many of whom had the maple leaf affixed (I did not) and the Dutch seemed to love it (then again they have a love-in for this nation since WW2 it seems).

Doesn't mean I'd sew a patch on (I wouldn't and I have little affection for any form of nationalism), but I don't think your broad statement is right either. Also, I think the assumption is wrong in a sense - lots of Canuck kids who go abroad seem to really like identifying each other, since they are usually quite outnumbered by the Americans and Australians (why are these people everywhere??). I remember seeing it in a small train station in La Spezia - 4 Canadian tourists who recognized each other based on the maple leaf hugged, chatted, exchanged tips and so on. That probably plays a role too.

 

[BoMac]

i, for one, don't like the Maple Leaf.

but then, i'm an American who's lived in europe and traveled extensively across the UK and encountered far too many canadians with the flag affixed to every conceivable article of clothing and luggage and seem to think that this gets them some sort of brownie points with the host country when, in actually, the euros think it's a little strange.

I travelled extensively in Asia with a Roots backpack that featured a Maple Leaf stitched onto it and was told what anitram was told. Also, believe it or not, I actually met Americans who would wear the Maple Leaf because they thought they'd get treated better.

 

[BoMac]

But Quebec will find fault with pretty much everything.

That smiley would indicate that you may have been joking, but I feel that this is how English Canada sees us.

Don't judge all of us based on the vocal minority; there's a silent majority out here that's actually quite fed up with all of the separatism rhetoric that the Bloc and Parti Quebecois spew. See below.

Couple things:

[*]I don't give a toss about the monarchy, as an English Quebecer/Canadian, and I doubt many Canadians do anymore
[*]Separation in Quebec is a non-issue at the moment; the provincial government has been nurturing a burgeoning technology industry in the last decade as they figured out young people want jobs, not a separate country or an economic depression

 

[Irvine511]

I travelled extensively in Asia with a Roots backpack that featured a Maple Leaf stitched onto it and was told what anitram was told. Also, believe it or not, I actually met Americans who would wear the Maple Leaf because they thought they'd get treated better.

lies.

silly, shameless lies.

 

[BoMac]

lies.

silly, shameless lies.

You caught me!

 

[anitram]

That smiley would indicate that you may have been joking, but I feel that this is how English Canada sees us.

I'll always remember my first year constitutional law prof who said, if it weren't for Quebec, our constitutional casebook would go from 1300 pages to 175.

 

[canedge]

"I think the idea of a monarchy is just utterly ridiculous in the 21st Century in any real terms"

-Has the monarchy ever exisited in real terms?
-Has Bono or U2 ever affected you in real terms? Like paying your debts or cutting your lawn?

I would beg to differ. Like so many other Canadains I don't care much for it either. But it does prevent the insane idol worshipping that exisits in the US.
A few Asian countries still have monarchies to apperent suceess.

Many Brits, though I may stand corrected, are more dignified as to dedicate their life to somebody's evil marketing scheme. That is these citizen demigods, celebrity divinity...

It is the symbolic power of the monarchy that is useful just as U2's music has symbolic power over who we are and the decisions we make....

To that end, I say keep the monarchy...

 

[canedge]

One more thing. When The White Stripes toured Canada it was cool that they did it but funny that they tried to tour every province & terroritory.

This reflects their American perspective as viewing things in terms of lines and maps. I mean, what they should really have done is toured Canada and considered the enthic and historical diversity of Canada.

I laughed out loud when in John Stewart's America book he had a fold out map of the new Iraq where you can create your own borders reagrless of history, war and ethnic diversity...

 

[Canadiens1131]

Let's just thank god that a couple of French wound up in Canada, otherwise we'd all be eating shite British cuisine at restaurants Or British Fusion, to be more modern about it. Yorkshire Pud with a teryaki glaze!

~

One more thing. When The White Stripes toured Canada it was cool that they did it but funny that they tried to tour every province & terroritory.

This reflects their American perspective as viewing things in terms of lines and maps.

If they wanted to do things in a way more representative of modern Canada, they could have just ignored the maratimes alltogether

 

[vaz02]

Let's just thank god that a couple of French wound up in Canada, otherwise we'd all be eating shite British cuisine at restaurants

~lol:

In apose to eating shite french cuisine.

 

[yolland]

Like so many other Canadains I don't care much for it either. But it does prevent the insane idol worshipping that exisits in the US.

While I don't dispute the idol worshipping charge, I think that has a lot more to do with our having a presidential system than with our not having a monarch. I think if we had a parliamentary system there'd probably be a lot less of that.

 

[Canadiens1131]

In apose to eating shite french cuisine.

I was referring to haute cuisine,
not poutine....

 

[melon]

there's an immigrant who recently had the balls to sue canada because he had to swear an oath of allegiance to the crown in order to acquire citizenship.

THEN DON'T FUCKING MOVE HERE.

can you imagine the reaction in america if this were an issue?

so we have british roots. what's wrong with that? is canada not allowed to be proud of what got them to where they are today?

this is NOT a rant against immigration, or anything of the like. this is me at my most disgusted at the pathetic politicians and spineless cowards who are constantly willing to bend over backwards to satisfy political correction.

haha. wow. none of this even makes sense. my apologies for this. not really, though of course.

if you don't like canada, don't go there. it's as simple as that.

that applies to quebec as well. if you want out, i'd be happy to see the separatists to the door.

Here's my take on the issue:

Looking at Canada from my POV, I still consider it to be a "youthful nation" in search of a national identity. The old British colonial identity is, more or less, fading away, and I doubt that it will ever return, because the reality is that those old British colonial ties are dying as the population ages and most younger people are going to see themselves as "Canadian." This is not out-of-the-ordinary, as you can see this shift amongst the descendants of those who immigrated here in the early 20th century or so. The "immigrant flavor," so to say, just cannot reasonably sustain forever.

That aforementioned suing immigrant, nonetheless, is a bit silly to sue like that, because the British monarch remains your constitutional Head of State, and to not swear an oath of allegiance to the Head of State is unheard of. The debate should, if needed, shift towards amending the Head of State away from Britain. I do not think this will happen at least until after QEII dies, because she is still quite respected and is an institution in her own right.

 

[vaz02]

I dont think ive sworn an oath of allegiance to the head of state or anyone in my life, its pointless and meaningless.

 

[DaveC]

If they wanted to do things in a way more representative of modern Canada, they could have just ignored the maratimes alltogether

Originally posted by canedge
It is the symbolic power of the monarchy that is useful just as U2's music has symbolic power over who we are and the decisions we make....

Eh?

 

[unforgettableFOXfire]

Re the website: It kindof offends me, insofaras it a) misrepresents the realities of living in Canada, b) misrepresents the feelings of English Canadians and French Canadians towards one another, c) misrepresents history, and d) has nothing resembling a cohesive logical argument within its text. It is pure, unadulterated propaganda, and can be easily debunked with logic -- and, because logic seems to be a rare faculty, I do feel it's kindof dangerous because people who don't know better will read it and could believe in it.


That said, I don't really like the idea of Quebec separating. However, if the Quebecois felt that it was in their best interest to separate, I would respect that decision. The only rejection I offer to separatists is their previous desires to become a sovereign nation who retain 0% of the Canadian national debt rather than their share, and also while retaining all of the infrastructure, etc.

Would I rather have Britain or the US as head of state? Britain. Britain has been nothing but good to us in the past. So what if they're only a figurehead? At least we retain our health care and the like with Britain. Even though it might disappear as it is now, it would definitely disappear with the US governing us.

What would I say to the guy? I wouldn't, because I don't really feel that giving attention to his ideas is worthwhile, especially if giving attention to his ideas propagated the wrong kind of attention -- the kind that would cause his following (if any exists) to grow. I love my country and I'd rather it stay as it is.

That said, it has crossed my mind to move somewhere a little farther away from the US, because honestly, it isn't Americans but the US government which is something of a political loose cannon and I don't want to be anywhere near them when some chain of events causes them to set their sights to the north. Norway, here I come.


--
Edit:

I should go on, actually. The section about the debt vs. ownership of lands is absurd. 'Owning' one of the two official languages (for lack of a better description) by no means equates to half ownership of the entirety of Canada's territory. Divide by population, current provincial boundaries, and relative GDP. Dividing debt strictly by territory owned is ridiculous, and has nothing to do with relative richness of that territory nor its production capacity. Not to mention that there's the whole issue of Native territory claims, to both Northern Quebec and to much of the valuable lands in Canada which the author suggests Quebec seek claim to. I find it intensely interesting that the Native non-issue in the states carries over into the discussion of Canada, where it is a significant one.

Like I say, though. Propaganda.

Incidentally, when he suggests that the French could be a figurehead over Canada instead of the English, I would fully endorse that alternative. Really, they would be no worse than Britain, and much better than the US.