Question about the insurgents in Iraq

[U2democrat]

Have they essentially given up on targeting US troops? Several months ago it seemed that 99% of the attacks were geared toward US soldiers. Lately attacks seemed to be killing more Iraqis than US troops. I would be interested to hear from y'all why they have shifted their attention.

 

[A_Wanderer]

No, they have murdered many more innocent Iraqis than US troops right from the beginning ~ be it to flare sectarian violence or undermine the political process or for the glorious killing of heretics, its just that their deaths are not reported.

 

[U2democrat]

well it seems like they are targeting fewer troops than in the past. i don't know, i don't really like the way the media handles its coverage of the war.

 

[A_Wanderer]

Thats just the media cycle, there are probably a few sites that you could get casualty rates from. Politically though the country is moving forward ~ I would not imagine seeing a major US force in the country in 2008 and if there was then I would say that something had gone seriously wrong.

 

[VertigoGal]

I'm not sure if this can really be measured, but does anyone know if this terrorist violence towards civilians is starting to have a backlash, or creating a strong sentiment of *support* for the new government? I hope the Iraqi people will begin to see these people as their enemies and not defenders, as the vast majority of civilian casualties at this stage seem to be from insurgents' car bombs, not US bombs. I'm not very good with words or quotes, but there's that analogy about these kind of groups needing water to swim in, and if popular support dries up, they can't really function. Or something like that, you guys know what I mean.

At any rate, every time I see a report of a bomb at a shopping center, 2 thoughts cross my mind: "How do the Iraqis feel about all these attacks against their own people?" and "Those bastards!"

 

[A_Wanderer]

I think that the turnout for the recent elections, the moves by the Sunni tribal leaders to get involved in the democratic process and the writing of the Iraqi constitution and the polls from the country (80% and upwards supporting democratic process, barely more than 10% support for insurgents from multiple sources both Arab News, Coalition and western news agencies like the BBC). These are all positive moves, if the Iraqi people have a stake in their country and an interest in seeing it stay together then the venture of a democratic and free Arab nation will be accomplished ~ by the Iraqi people. We cannot force these things on them, merely remove the chains that prevent them.

 

[A_Wanderer]

I also doubt the goulish tactics of the terrorists win them many friends.

The following are excerpts from the interrogation of captured Iraqi terrorist 'Adnan Elias. Al-Iraqiya TV aired this interrogation on April 21, 2005.

Interviewer: Your name?

'Adnan Elias: 'Adnan Muhammad Elias.

Interviewer: Date of birth?

'Adnan Elias: 1984.

Interviewer: What education do you have?

'Adnan Elias: I got to 4th grade, but I don't know how to read or write.

Interviewer: What do you do for a living?

'Adnan Elias: I clean for the municipality.

Interviewer: To what group do you belong?

'Adnan Elias: The Ansar Al-Sunna, sir.

Interviewer: We tied (the policeman) up and blindfolded him, and then threw him into the trunk. Then we went to the house of the Emir. We untied his hands and eyes, and then punished him.

Interviewer: How did you punish him?

'Adnan Elias: We whipped him.

Interviewer: You whipped him?

'Adnan Elias: Yes, Muhsin did.

Interviewer: And you?

'Adnan Elias: I didn't whip him. I just stood there holding the gun.

Interviewer: Go on.

'Adnan Elias: They told us to take him to the house of Habib 'Izzat Hamu. We took him out there. We said to him: "Why did you do this and that… Why are you after us?" He answered: "It's out of our hands. We get orders." Then we were told to bring a knife.

Interviewer: You slaughtered him?

'Adnan Elias: Yes, sir. Habib 'Izzat Hamu got the knife. He slaughtered him, and when he was dead, he opened his shirt buttons and cut open his stomach.

Interviewer: Who opened him up?

'Adnan Elias: Muhsin, sir.

Interviewer: When a doctor performs an operation he wears a surgeon's mask over his nose and mouth.

'Adnan Elias: No sir, he didn't wear one.

Interviewer: He didn't wear one?

'Adnan Elias: No sir, he didn't wear one. He cut open his stomach and took stuff out.

Interviewer: What did he take out?

'Adnan Elias: I don't know, his guts.

Interviewer: Weren't you nauseous? Didn't you vomit?

'Adnan Elias: You mean Muhsin?

Interviewer: No, you.

'Adnan Elias: I was standing a little bit aside.

Interviewer: And he didn't vomit or get nauseous?

'Adnan Elias: No, sir.

Interviewer: What is he, Dracula?

'Adnan Elias: Huh?

Interviewer: Go on.

'Adnan Elias: Yes, sir. He opened him up, took stuff out, and put TNT and explosives inside. Then he sewed up his stomach with thick thread.

Interviewer: With thread?

'Adnan Elias: Yes. And a needle. He put the buttons back in place...

Interviewer: He buttoned him up.

'Adnan Elias: Yes, he buttoned him up. We were told to take him in the car near the square in Tel A'far. We threw him there and placed his head back on his shoulders.

Interviewer: My God!

'Adnan Elias: 15 to 30 minutes later they told his family to come and get their son. His father came with two policemen. They picked up the body and made no more than two steps – we were standing far away – Ahmad Sinjar pressed the button.

Interviewer: By remote control.

'Adnan Elias: The body exploded on them, and they died.

Interviewer: So his father and the two policemen died.

'Adnan Elias: Yes sir, and we took off.

link

 

[learn2kneel]

Thats the most graphic thing i've read about the war yet. Very thought provoking.

 

[U2DMfan]

I saw some reports that the Iraqi people are starting to really turn up the pressure on these insurgents, which is absolutely a good thing.

Meaning, instead of viweing them as nationalists fighting for the cause of getting the Americans out, the Iraqi peple relaize that these insurgents are just fucking bastards who need to die.

I hope they can turn up the pressure even more, get the place secure enough to get the United States and allies out of there.

They've got to step up to the plate, and take the responsibilty.

Bush won't announce a withdrawal date, but I am hoping he offers them an ultimatum privately. "We are planning on getting our troops out by XYZ date, so you need to get your shit in order before we get out"

Unfortuantely, that may not be in the cards, because the US and allies will bear the responsibilty for a long time, it seems.

At least you could say we are committed to help clean up the mess, eventually they have to take responsibilty. What is a reasonable time frame? Who knows. On one hand, I'd like to see the boys home tomorrow. On the other hand, we've got to do this thing the right way or we may have to go back in 5 years from now to clean up the mess, all over again. So if it takes another year, then that just may have to happen.

Does anyone venture a guess as to when a withdrawal may occur? Probably, they will do it gradually. I think there are 135,000 troops over there right now, that may just be the American #.

 

[A_Wanderer]

A gradual withdrawl probably to be announced after the elections at the end of the year and phased out over 2006 leaving a more training oriented force there in 2007 ~ it's like Vietnamisation, a strategy that actually worked very well as a counterinsurgency tool.

 

[VertigoGal]

The elections were a good sign, that's true. It just seems like these terrorists can only target their own people for so long before they get fed up...I mean, in the past week, they've killed I think 200 civilians.

I just hope the Iraqi mindset is one of defiance not submission. ie, if we'd had another terrorist attack in the US, you know most of the people would only be more pissed off and would want our army even more involved in the ME. Whereas, when you look at the Madrid bombing, it was pretty successful in getting the Spanish to withdraw troops immediately. (different situations, I'm not passing judgement on the Spanish or anything...)

 

[U2democrat]

understatement of the year:

terrorists suck

 

[verte76]

understatement of the year:

terrorists suck

I agree. I don't see why these people want to hurt their own people, their compatriots. I guess they just don't give a damn. That's horrific.

 

[madroseka]

I'm in Mosul right now and from my observations the AIF (anit-Iraq Forces as we call them) are still attacking us as much as they had before. However, their attacks are becoming less and less effective. As for the sentiment of the people, they are pissed at the terrorists. Most of the people we interact with are ready and willing to give up the bad guys. However they haven't steped up to take control of the situation for themselves, they still leave the majority of the work to us. But all in all attacks really haven't dropped but they are becoming less effective because we are cutting off thier supplies and weapons.

 

[U2democrat]

Ah, the perfect answer to my quesetion, thanks!


Good work.