Putting living cows into boiling water

[butter7]

I got your idea, but what matters is if the things could really happen or not?

Before we have farms, even before we have created written words, human had started hunting wild animals. Just like I stated previously, human race is not a species that mean to live on vegetables. It's simply impossible the convert everyone go vegetarian.

But teach people the truth of some farms and encourage them to by ethical farms' products instead of non-ethical ones is doable.

PS, if I was an animal run in the forest, or a pigeon living in the city, I'd thank all the human farms hearfully. Only because of the farms, I could still live freely in this world, didn't have to worry someone would catch me and cook me for dinner.

 

[bonocrazy88]

Haha yes, humans were once strictly meat eating, but then came the wonderful Agricultural Revolution which meant longer life spans for humans (because their source of food was not only based on the day's catch. It became a balance of the catch plus the careful planning of crops. Humans became just a tad bit more evolved than raw meat eating cavemen.

Also, what animals in farms are threats to pigeons? Did you mean human predators that eat birds? Cats normally love to eat birds and cats aren't being farmed for meat that I know of...cows and pigs and sheep and chickens, the normally farmed animals, do not eat much meat (if any at all). Pigs are omnivores, but the rest of those are primarily herbivores. Their farming only saps more of the world's resources and grain that could be used to feed people instead of animals which in turn feed only a small percentage of the population.

Like I said "The entire world will probably not convert to vegetarianism" because humans are omnivores, but human beings could survive soundly without eating meat.

 

[Infinity]

Thanks. My brother is vegetarian, so I've been exposed to his cooking a lot - Indian mostly. I'm currently interested in learning African and Middle Eastern dishes.

So if you have any cool suggestions, I'd be happy to hear them.

Ohh okay, thats good. You should go to Taco Bell and ask for any of the items without beef but with beans. It tastes really good. I eat a lot of Italian food. I like Portabello Ravioli, Cheese Ravioli, Eggplant is really good (the one from Olive Garden is good), Fettucini Alfredo, Margharrita Pizza with Tomatos and Basil, Manicotti, Pasta Primaveria, and others.

Also, do you like spicy food? If so, have you ever tried Pizza with Jalapenos as a topping? It is good. Or you can even try it with Green Peppers and Onions.

If you like sandwiches, there are vegetarian choices too, and they don't have to be bland. I love grilled cheese with onions and fresh spicy green peppers. When you go to Burger King, McDonalds or Wendy's, you should try a Veggie Burger instead of a Hamburger, they are really good and also full of protein.

Minestrone soup is really good too, and very healthy. I make it at home many times. Just get beans ready from the night before you want to make it. Put beans in water for approximately 20 hours. Then, put the beans in hott water on the stove and add celery, spinach, broccoli, zucchini, carrots, peas, corn, tomatos, parsley, mini pasta shells, vegetable broth, and any other vegetables that you want and just let it cook. Trust me, its good and very healthy.

I also like making fresh fruit juice. I put an apple, pear, plum, peach, nectarine, apricot, grapes, strawberries, blackberries, raspberries, blueberries, cherries, watermelon along with cranberry or orange juice in a blender, and I also add lots of ice. And it makes a really good smoothie, which is much better then a smoothie you get at the ice cream shop because it is completely fresh and contains no preservatives.

There are plenty more foods you can try, but these are the ones that I thought of at the top of my head.

Enjoy!

 

[starsgoblue]

What would be the point of boiling it alive?

Many animals that are slaughtered are supposed to be "stunned" before killings. Except for chickens and other poultry, Congress ruled they didn't need that luxury. Even for the animals being stunned, you gotta consider how many "ooops" there have to be---I mean you have to account for equipment being in operating conditions and being used PROPERLY around a kicking massive animal like a cow in a lineup of other freaked out animals.

In case anyone wonders, yes, I'm vegan. For various reasons. I don't try to "convert" anyone either, so I can understand the debates such a topic raises.

 

[anitram]

Well, but while stunning might have a failure rate, it is obviously a low enough one so that it doesn't affect costs. Boiling cows alive would destroy 100% of the meat, so in that sense it would make no sense.

I'm not saying they should stun them either, but the two scenarios are quite different.

 

[starsgoblue]

Yea, I see what you're saying. The problem of boiling alive and rendering meat unusable happens quite a bit with chickens by mistake....they're called "reds" when that happens. *shudders*

 

[bonocrazy88]

So Wendy's and McDonald's have veggie burgers? I was only aware that Burger King had one.

 

[elevated_u2_fan]

I don't know about in the US but in Canada Wendys is the last major fast food chain that does not carry a veggie burger.

I have no idea why... maybe they think we can make do with a salad and a baked potato... idiots

And McDonalds had one but I haven't eaten there in ages because they are still using lard for their french fries

 

[redhotswami]

lol yeah i don't eat at McNasty either. I used to work there!!

reason # 654 I'm a vegetarian

 

[Canadiens1131]

Time to go Level 5 Vegan - don't eat anything that casts a shadow

 

[maycocksean]

I was raised a vegetarian. I eat meat on occasion, usually when I go out to eat or at church potlucks and the like. I rarely purchase prepared meats to eat at home, and I almost never cook meat (I can do it but the process, with all blood and raw flesh still kinda grosses me out).

I guess you could say, I prefer to be vegetarian but don't have a problem with occasionally eating meat.

My reasons are primarily cultural, I guess. North American Seventh-day Adventists are traditionally vegetarian, so it's what I'm used to. I think there are lots of good reasons, health and otherwise to be vegetarian, but the argument simply that it's wrong because its taking an animal's life is not enough for me. I guess I think about it the way the Native Americans use to: "Thank you, animal, for giving your life so that I can eat." Maybe that sounds corny, but the reality is that meat-eating has long been a part of human existence and it doesn't make someone a "bad person" for doing so.

I would really question the doctor who said they've never seen a vegetarian over the age of 40 who is in good health. National Geographic did a study a few years ago on populations who live an extraordinarily long time. They studied the people on the Mediterranean island of Sardinia, the Japanese people of Okinawa, and the Seventh-day Adventists living in Loma Linda, California. Vegetarianism (the lacto-ovo kind) was a factor in the the longevity of the Adventists.

 

[joyfulgirl]

I would really question the doctor who said they've never seen a vegetarian over the age of 40 who is in good health. National Geographic did a study a few years ago on populations who live an extraordinarily long time. They studied the people on the Mediterranean island of Sardinia, the Japanese people of Okinawa, and the Seventh-day Adventists living in Loma Linda, California. Vegetarianism (the lacto-ovo kind) was a factor in the the longevity of the Adventists.

Oh, he's got files and files with documented cases. Not saying his experience is the ultimate truth, or that he's participated in scientific studies, etc., and certainly there is a lot of conflicting data to support whichever side you're on, but his experience is just that--his experience, and his (well-informed but not scientific) opinion.

However, I do think there could be a difference between people raised in families as healthy vegetarians such as might be the case with the Adventists, vs. the typical American who converts to vegetarianism in their 20s, for example, who's on a budget, who maybe can't afford supplements, and doesn't sit down daily to well-balanced meals the way one might in a healthy family situation. I definitely think it's very, very possible for vegetarians to be really healthy--there's definitely a great way to do it--I'm just not sure that most do it well. Perhaps if I'd seen a nutritionist much earlier on in my vegetarian days, I would still be a vegetarian, and a healthy one.

Also, people can live a long time and still not be all that healthy. I didn't know I was unhealthy until I became healthier. The difference in my energy level today is quite extraordinary but because being tired was all I knew as a vegetarian, I just didn't know I could feel better, so I learned to compensate and functioned seemingly fine.

Anyway, everyone's different. I don't believe there is a right way or a wrong way for everyone to eat. There will always be the Linda McCartneys who do it all right and still get cancer and die young, and there will always be chain-smoking, fast-food eating, cranky, indestructible 95 year olds going for their third triple bypass surgery but yeah, they've outlived all their friends. People have to listen to their bodies and go with what's best for them. I think it's great to be a vegetarian and it's great to eat meat. I'd just caution vegetarians to do their homework and make sure they're getting what they need (don't forget amino acids) and meat eaters to eat organic meat when they can, and everyone should stay away from hydrogenated oils and stop judging each other!

 

[Irvine511]

how do you let a militant vegetarian know that she is ruining your meal when she looks with disgust at everyone's plate when it arrives?

she thinks it's a moral thing, and that she's doing the moral thing by objecting to eating meat. it's even more dire, say, than someone driving an earth-raping SUV or not recycling or something.

 

[redhotswami]

Time to go Level 5 Vegan - don't eat anything that casts a shadow

you would if you worked there. mcnasty has the worst grade meat in comparison to the other major fast food chains. that means that it is quite likely there is some human in your BigMac.

 

[LMP]

you would if you worked there. mcnasty has the worst grade meat in comparison to the other major fast food chains. that means that it is quite likely there is some human in your BigMac.

So it's soylent green?

 

[joyfulgirl]

how do you let a militant vegetarian know that she is ruining your meal when she looks with disgust at everyone's plate when it arrives?

I'm afraid you'll have to kill her.

Or you could just try to ignore her? I don't know. I'm guessing you've tried everything at this point from calm reason to bitter sarcasm to slurping your lips after a big bite of rare steak. I'm guessing the arguments have all been had and everyone knows how the other feels. So I honestly don't know. If reasoning with her doesn't work, I just honestly can't answer that. She may just have to grow up a little. You could all try having vegetarian meals when you eat together with her just for the sake of family peace at the table, but honestly that doesn't feel right either. The respect must go both ways and I don't know how you teach someone that.

 

[ntalwar]

They studied the people on the Mediterranean island of Sardinia, the Japanese people of Okinawa, and the Seventh-day Adventists living in Loma Linda, California. Vegetarianism (the lacto-ovo kind) was a factor in the the longevity of the Adventists.

I think I've read somewhere that the Japanese longevity is related to the large amount of fish in their diets.

 

[redhotswami]

So it's soylent green?

You never saw a grapefruit.

 

[indra]

how do you let a militant vegetarian know that she is ruining your meal when she looks with disgust at everyone's plate when it arrives?

she thinks it's a moral thing, and that she's doing the moral thing by objecting to eating meat. it's even more dire, say, than someone driving an earth-raping SUV or not recycling or something.

When I ate meat and I knew meat eating completely grossed someone else out, I ate something else when that person was around. I figured I didn't need or want meat so badly that I needed to gross someone else out.

 

[A_Wanderer]

I think I've read somewhere that the Japanese longevity is related to the large amount of fish in their diets.

An even longer life of heavy metal exposure

 

[toscano]

how do you let a militant vegetarian know that she is ruining your meal when she looks with disgust at everyone's plate when it arrives?

she thinks it's a moral thing, and that she's doing the moral thing by objecting to eating meat. it's even more dire, say, than someone driving an earth-raping SUV or not recycling or something.

Tell them something along the lines of "glare at me all you want, I plan on enjoying my meal, why ruin your own ?"

 

[anitram]

I have a cousin who is a militant vegan. I honestly can't stand to be around her because everything is a big deal and a production. It offends me that she's been doing her BA for 7 years on my grandparents' buck because she's lazy, but hey, I don't bring that up every time I see her. But me enjoying a piece of grilled salmon is cause for a 2 hour lecture.

 

[redhotswami]

do your militant friends grow their own vegetables, or purchase from farmer's markets?

one strong argument that i as an adamant vegetarian find difficult to disagree with is the mistreatment of the farm workers. you can remind her that, depending on where she purchases her products, of course, millions of immigrant farmworkers slaved for sub-standard wages and are thus forced to live in dehumanizing conditions, just to meet with the demands of her vegetarian lifestyle. what about human rights?

i know...it makes me a hypocrite. but i guess i can only fight one evil at a time? otherwise...what could we eat?

but yeah, that argument usually makes me, a vegetarian, very uncomfortable. good luck next time you dine with your militant friends!

 

[yolland]

I would really question the doctor who said they've never seen a vegetarian over the age of 40 who is in good health. National Geographic did a study a few years ago on populations who live an extraordinarily long time. They studied the people on the Mediterranean island of Sardinia, the Japanese people of Okinawa, and the Seventh-day Adventists living in Loma Linda, California. Vegetarianism (the lacto-ovo kind) was a factor in the the longevity of the Adventists.

I remember seeing that article. And that Adventist study was a large and comprehensive one carried out over many years by the NIH. They had lower rates of almost all the usual degenerative conditions (heart disease, diabetes, cancer) in addition to the increased longevity. Although, as I recall, the researchers did think their healthier lifestyle in general--no smoking or drinking, more exercise than average, more extensive and close-knit social support systems than average--almost certainly played a role, too. Adventists *might* be somewhat atypical representatives of vegetarians in general in that--correct me if I'm wrong here--the 'religious incentives' extend beyond merely a refusal to eat certain foods, to encompass a 'holistic' commitment to care for one's body and practice a 'healthy lifestyle' generally, including close attention to the state of current medical knowledge on the subject. Although...I believe British studies have found that UK vegetarians generally have slightly greater longevity and lower heart disease rates, at least, as well. I'm pretty sure, though, that even so neither of those groups were "as healthy" (in terms of the usual longevity/degenerative disease indicators) as, say, the Japanese or the Greeks as a whole, even though both those populations eat meat (and smoke, and drink)--albeit none of the above to the degree that Americans do.

I've read a little bit about epidemiological studies on diet and health in India (the only country in the world with truly large numbers of vegetarians) and those don't paint as rosy a picture, though they don't suggest that Indian vegetarians are any less healthy. Heart disease and diabetes are very serious problems in India; they've "led" the "developing world" for some time in that area and by sometime next decade, heart disease is expected to replace infectious diseases as the leading cause of death there. Studies in all the major Indian cities, as well as in several rural areas, haven't found significant differences between vegetarians and nonvegetarians in terms of diabetes and heart disease rates. Like Native Americans, (South Asian) Indians appear to be exceptionally genetically predisposed to these conditions (and, it's speculated, for similar reasons--i.e., adaptation over millennia to an environment where longterm scarcity and periodic famines were common; many of the same metabolic traits which predispose people to diabetes and heart disease are actually assets in such an environment). There are some theories about this: e.g., that contemporary Indian vegetarians may be consuming ill-advisedly high proportions of 'high glycemic index' starches like polished rice, refined wheat and rice and bean flours, and sugar, and that this combined with their relatively not-that-bad,-but-not-that-good-either intake of saturated fats (dairy products, coconut oil) and fried and deep-fried foods may be the culprit. But there isn't enough data to draw many conclusions yet. Nonetheless, I doubt in the extreme that thousands of Indian doctors wouldn't immediately take issue, based on experience, with the claim that vegetarians over 40 are "never" in good health.

I think joyfulgirl's probably right that lifelong vegetarians are more likely both to "know what they're doing"--and then actually make themselves do it--nutritionally speaking. And I certainly get the impression from talking to vegetarian friends about what they eat that, like many other Americans nowadays, most of them have never really learned how to cook or to plan out several days' worth of varied meals, and in the long run that probably takes a toll on the nutritional balance of their diet.

 

[yolland]

one strong argument that i as an adamant vegetarian find difficult to disagree with is the mistreatment of the farm workers. you can remind her that, depending on where she purchases her products, of course, millions of immigrant farmworkers slaved for sub-standard wages and are thus forced to live in dehumanizing conditions, just to meet with the demands of her vegetarian lifestyle. what about human rights?

Also, that tucking into a salad full of vegetables shipped by refrigerator truck from California's (heavily irrigated) Central Valley in the middle of winter is of dubious ecological "superiority". But then, what's a Midwesterner or Northeasterner to do for half the year? I favor local produce when it's in season, and most of the modest amount of meat our family eats is local too (thank you, Mennonite small farmers), but in most parts of this country the farmer's market is a seasonal option only.

 

[U2Bama]

I have a cousin who is a militant vegan. I honestly can't stand to be around her because everything is a big deal and a production. It offends me that she's been doing her BA for 7 years on my grandparents' buck because she's lazy, but hey, I don't bring that up every time I see her. But me enjoying a piece of grilled salmon is cause for a 2 hour lecture.

I remember you saying awhile back you and your family enjoy fishing. Perhaps you could take your cousin along on a fishing trip sometime; you could even get Irvine to ride along in the good old earth-raping family SUV! I'll drive all the way up to Canada in my own SUV and bring some tasty southern barbecued pork, Irvine could bring along some steaks, you could catch some salmon, grill it all up, and how could she resist the aroma of such wonderful surf & turf? But, she may push some militant vegan appetizers on us...

~U2Alabama

 

[maycocksean]

I remember you saying awhile back you and your family enjoy fishing. Perhaps you could take your cousin along on a fishing trip sometime; you could even get Irvine to ride along in the good old earth-raping family SUV! I'll drive all the way up to Canada in my own SUV and bring some tasty southern barbecued pork, Irvine could bring along some steaks, you could catch some salmon, grill it all up, and how could she resist the aroma of such wonderful surf & turf? But, she may push some militant vegan appetizers on us...

~U2Alabama

Ooh. Can I come?

 

[maycocksean]

how do you let a militant vegetarian know that she is ruining your meal when she looks with disgust at everyone's plate when it arrives?

she thinks it's a moral thing, and that she's doing the moral thing by objecting to eating meat. it's even more dire, say, than someone driving an earth-raping SUV or not recycling or something.

I hate to say it, but there's not much you CAN say to some one who is on a moral high horse.

I should know, having been on one a time or two myself!

 

[LMP]

You never saw a grapefruit.

*response to movie reference*

 

[redhotswami]