Irvine511
Blue Crack Supplier
[q]Okay -- so change the question. Show me where gay family structures has ever been considered the optimal method of parenting. And I do ask about optimal, because we are talking about adoption, when optimal is the standard measure for potential families.[/q]
show me where children are unduly harmed by gay family structures and their development lacks behind their peers who grow up in straight households. Show me where heterosexual parents are always better than homosexual parents.
I agree with “optimal” – I just don’t think sexual orientation has anything to do with optimal or not. I will put myself out here – I’ve taught preschool, junior high, and high school. I’ve worked with kids since I’ve been 16 years old. I was one of the few male babysitters I had ever heard of. I have been a peer counselor in various capacities. I currently make educational programming for a large cable network. Within a few years, I expect to be in reasonable financial shape. I believe passionately in education. I was raised by parents who are models of commitment to each other and to their children. In short, I think you’d be hard pressed to find a more ideal adoptive father than me, straight or gay.
I don’t’ see why my being in love with a man negates all of these qualities.
Tell me how it does.
[q]First of all, I don't think I've ever been anything but respectful to you, Irvine -- so I don't think I've ever called you a promiscuous AIDS-purveyor, or thought of you as such. While I don't doubt that such vile demonizing exists in this country, I think you'd be hard-pressed to find such a perspective in my posts.[/q]
that’s correct, you’ve always been very respectful (and i to you), and that comment wasn’t directed at you, though re-reading the paragraph I can see how you could interpret it that way, for that I apologize.
However, your beliefs are to the detriment of gay people everywhere. They really are. They hurt people first by reproducing social narratives that create self-hate, and second by working to prevent gay people from entering into pro-family, socially stabilizing institutions. If marriage is so wonderful, if being a parent is so wonderful, why do you want to deny this to 5-10% of the population?
[q]As far as the effect on marriage goes, we've already discussed in this thread how this issue points to a fundamental redefinition of society's views on family -- on mothers and fathers, men and women, husbands and wives, on children, and by proxy, society. Again when we're talking about a fundamental redefinition of these views, we need to explore historical, sociological, and biological precedent in these discussions.[/q]
An expansion is not a redefinition; homosexual adoption or marriage will do nothing to undermine the heterosexual normative. It simply will usher in a group of people into already existing structures that are probably a lot more flexible and durable than you give them credit for – these structures change from country to country, society to society, and throughout history.
[q]My perspective is as it has ever been -- that the best situation for a child with a mother and father. So far, nothing on this thread has made me think otherwise. [/q]
you really do seem hung up on homo vs. hetero. I’m not sure what else can be said if this basic prejudice refuses to budge.
show me where children are unduly harmed by gay family structures and their development lacks behind their peers who grow up in straight households. Show me where heterosexual parents are always better than homosexual parents.
I agree with “optimal” – I just don’t think sexual orientation has anything to do with optimal or not. I will put myself out here – I’ve taught preschool, junior high, and high school. I’ve worked with kids since I’ve been 16 years old. I was one of the few male babysitters I had ever heard of. I have been a peer counselor in various capacities. I currently make educational programming for a large cable network. Within a few years, I expect to be in reasonable financial shape. I believe passionately in education. I was raised by parents who are models of commitment to each other and to their children. In short, I think you’d be hard pressed to find a more ideal adoptive father than me, straight or gay.
I don’t’ see why my being in love with a man negates all of these qualities.
Tell me how it does.
[q]First of all, I don't think I've ever been anything but respectful to you, Irvine -- so I don't think I've ever called you a promiscuous AIDS-purveyor, or thought of you as such. While I don't doubt that such vile demonizing exists in this country, I think you'd be hard-pressed to find such a perspective in my posts.[/q]
that’s correct, you’ve always been very respectful (and i to you), and that comment wasn’t directed at you, though re-reading the paragraph I can see how you could interpret it that way, for that I apologize.
However, your beliefs are to the detriment of gay people everywhere. They really are. They hurt people first by reproducing social narratives that create self-hate, and second by working to prevent gay people from entering into pro-family, socially stabilizing institutions. If marriage is so wonderful, if being a parent is so wonderful, why do you want to deny this to 5-10% of the population?
[q]As far as the effect on marriage goes, we've already discussed in this thread how this issue points to a fundamental redefinition of society's views on family -- on mothers and fathers, men and women, husbands and wives, on children, and by proxy, society. Again when we're talking about a fundamental redefinition of these views, we need to explore historical, sociological, and biological precedent in these discussions.[/q]
An expansion is not a redefinition; homosexual adoption or marriage will do nothing to undermine the heterosexual normative. It simply will usher in a group of people into already existing structures that are probably a lot more flexible and durable than you give them credit for – these structures change from country to country, society to society, and throughout history.
[q]My perspective is as it has ever been -- that the best situation for a child with a mother and father. So far, nothing on this thread has made me think otherwise. [/q]
you really do seem hung up on homo vs. hetero. I’m not sure what else can be said if this basic prejudice refuses to budge.