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Old 03-26-2003, 10:23 AM   #1
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Propaganda

I hear a lot of talk about the "Iraqi Propaganda machine" cutely labeled the IPM

I was just wondering if the Fine US citizens here seriously believe they are not on the receieving end of a lot of propaganda
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Old 03-26-2003, 10:27 AM   #2
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Did I mention that one of the reasons I am so happy not to be living in the USA at the moment is because I don't have to rely on that propaganda machine? ugh.
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Old 03-26-2003, 10:34 AM   #3
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embeds are your friends
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Old 03-26-2003, 10:44 AM   #4
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there's a LOT of US citizens that think their news (whichever one they may watch/read) is 100% accurate and not slanted in any way.
Makes me sad.
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Old 03-26-2003, 10:49 AM   #5
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There's no doubt in my mind that we're on the receiving end of a propaganda machine. The American Friends Service Committee (the Quakers) has an "alternative" news source based in Amman, Jordan. It's called "The Human Face of War". I don't have that URL handy but look for the AFSC on your friendly local search engine. It's honest, non-governmental news.
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Old 03-26-2003, 11:00 AM   #6
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During war, it seems that a journalist's three main sources of information are:

1. Military sources.
2. Direct observation.
3. Individual conjecture.

It is fair to criticize networks in the US for relying on (1) too much, but I can't think of an incident where a piece of information obtained from military sources was not identified as such.

In contrast, I have noticed that a lot of foreign sources rely on (3) without always clearly portraying it as such.
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Old 03-26-2003, 11:01 AM   #7
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What makes anyone, anywhere in the world think they are not subjected to any form of propaganda?

It's kinda sanctimonious to think only the US media engages in 'selective' reporting. From where I stand, there aren't too many perfect places (worlds/people..etc).
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Old 03-26-2003, 11:04 AM   #8
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Here's some info on it: http://www.peaceresponse.org/face.shtml
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Old 03-26-2003, 11:06 AM   #9
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Stop this nonsense. You are using the term "propaganda" to include everything from selective reporting or "spin" to outright lies. Also, evaluate the control the respective governments have over the media.

You cannot simply create the presumption that everything we hear in the United States is propaganda and, therefore, unreliable. Given the vast amount of information flowing into the country and number of independent reporters given front line access, to any way equate the US media with the Iraqi Minister of Information or Al Jazeera is fraught with ignorance.

Alternative news sources have their own agendas and, according to the suggested analysis, should be considered “propaganda”.
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Old 03-26-2003, 11:08 AM   #10
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Al Jazeera's slogan is "objective and balanced."
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Old 03-26-2003, 11:11 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally posted by speedracer
During war, it seems that a journalist's three main sources of information are:

1. Military sources.
2. Direct observation.
3. Individual conjecture.

It is fair to criticize networks in the US for relying on (1) too much, but I can't think of an incident where a piece of information obtained from military sources was not identified as such.

In contrast, I have noticed that a lot of foreign sources rely on (3) without always clearly portraying it as such.
(1) is relied because it is the main source of information-it is where the news happens. yes the source is cited and it is a very trustworthy source (ex. 'the pentagon', 'the administration', 'officials', etc.). this is easy information to collect for the news outlets because it is cheap (free) and immediately available.
this source role puts institutions of power in a position to distribute whichever information they want. that is a bias that is inherent in the system.
but the news source can play it up to the point that a viewer is desensitized to a lack of pluralism of viewpoints being presented to them.

this barrier has seeminlgy been broken down with the utilization of 'embedded' journalists in this conflict. approximately 600, from what i've seen so far they are either american or british, journalists are placed within a division or section of the military offensive. this move has positives and negatives for viewers. we are getting footage unlike any we've ever seen before and this footage is coming at a speed we are unaccustomed to during war time. however some evidence of control over those images has already come about. there is, of course, a natural clash of cultures between journalism and the military. so some of these differing opinions on what should be shown are inherent and some are purposeful methods of control.
in my opinion embeds are bad. while we are given unprecedented access, this access is easily shaped to further fit the needs of the military.

could you provide examples of what you mean by (3)?
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Old 03-26-2003, 11:15 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally posted by kobayashi
however some evidence of control over those images has already come about. there is, of course, a natural clash of cultures between journalism and the military. so some of these differing opinions on what should be shown are inherent and some are purposeful methods of control.
in my opinion embeds are bad. while we are given unprecedented access, this access is easily shaped to further fit the needs of the military.
Can you provide evidence of what you are describing. I realize reporters cannot disclose their position (for obvious reasons), but what other "evidence of control" are you referring to?
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Old 03-26-2003, 11:16 AM   #13
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I was going to start a new thread but I didn't know.. ANyway- do we know if the Iraqi people really want us there? I know that they do not have free speech and cannot speak out against Saddam w/o fear of death, but is there anything?? Cheering by the people as the US military comes to "free them"? Anything?
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Old 03-26-2003, 11:19 AM   #14
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oliveu2cm,

See this Thread
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Old 03-26-2003, 11:23 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader


Can you provide evidence of what you are describing. I realize reporters cannot disclose their position (for obvious reasons), but what other "evidence of control" are you referring to?
nothing that wasnt unexpected or predictable in my opinion.
Quote:
ABCNews.com
Tight Lips
Embedded Journalists Learn About Restricted Access Early On

Reporter's Notebook
By Ron Claiborne

A B O A R D U S S L I N C O L N, March 14 — The media who have been "embeded" with military units have been promised unprecedented access to cover the build-up to a possible conflict with Iraq and a war itself, if it happens.

But less than a week into the embedding, there is already a lot of bristling among some of the journalists aboard the USS Abraham Lincoln, an aircraft carrier deployed to the Gulf region. Some of them — us — began muttering when we were told we had to be accompanied by our escorts — members of the ship's crew including some public affairs officers — everywhere we went except the restroom. The escorts also monitor our interviews with ship's personnel.

A few days into the embed, they were told to keep a record of who we speak to and what we talk about. We were told it was so they would have a log of how many people were spoken to and for what stories. Reporters are famously resistant to anyone monitoring them working.

Ordered to Leave

This week, Admiral John Kelly, head of carrier Task Force 50, had an "admiral's call" for enlisted sailors in the ship's cavernous hangar bay. Some of us were informed just before it took place that we should steer clear of the meeting because it was private. But not everyone got the word.

Witnesses say when two photographers accidentally wandered into the hangar bay during the meeting, the admiral stopped suddenly and barked at them. According to one reporter, the cameramen were confronted by armed guards and ordered to leave.

Another newspaper reporter who planned to do a story about the Navy's policy prohibiting fraternization between the sexes said interviews she had arranged with ship personnel were abruptly canceled because, she said she was told, the admiral did not like the subject matter.

Cynics had predicted that the military and journalists would never mix. The cynics are no doubt chuckling to themselves.
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Old 03-26-2003, 12:36 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally posted by kobayashi


nothing that wasnt unexpected or predictable in my opinion.
This thread is a joke. Comparing Iraqi propaganda with the U.S. and British. (and you wonder why some people equate anti-war with pro-Saddam????)

kobayashi's "evidence of control" is absurd! Of course they are going to have to have escorts with them, and they are going to have to have their interviews monitored. This is a war. You think that they are just going to slap a hundred journalists in with all the branches of the military and say "have at it!" If journalists were given free reign to disclose locations, types of vehicles, types of weapons, number of troops, ETA's to other locations, etc.... the list goes on and on.... then we would be sitting ducks to the enemy.

Just last night i saw live action of bombing raids in the north as the embedded reporter was giving a report on the days events. It just happened behind him. This is real time, I think that we can applaud the fact that we are getting this news that is not being manipulated other than the fact that we can't always know their location or next move.

You act like the reporter from ABC is there with two guys aiming a gun at his head reading a script of what they want him to say. There are legendary journalists out in the field right now. Some that have covered 3,4, even 5 wars. They are saying they are given more coverage and information and freedom to report than in any other war before this. (but I'm sure that's just propaganda too)

And I am REALLY, REALLY sick of people acting as though the U.S. is the only country that would ever use propaganda. I know that reports that come out of the Pentagon are many times veiled in half-truths and double-speak to make it sound like everything is going great. But guess what? I KNOW it and am AWARE of it and can make up my own mind. Yes it's true, as hard as that is to believe. I can actually watch Bill O'reilly and say, what a dumbass, and NOT believe the rhetoric that he spews out. I can read articles in the New Independent and I don't have to believe all of the one-sided crap that they say. It's amazing I know. I live in America and can actually think objectively about news reports that I read.

If you think every other country in the world is propaganda-free, I truly feel sorry for you. I just watched a journalist on the BBC saying how they did a report on the war coverage in the media of Europe and some words that he used were: "appalling, uninformed rhetoric, irresponsible, misleading, and shameful) This is a British reporter, not U.S. by the way.

Another interesting example was a man making a trip to Muslim countries asking muslims what they thought of the U.S. - One person said that they think we blame them for everything and that we blame the for 9/11, but she read that muslims weren't involved in 9/11, it was Americans that did it to themselves.

It almost made me cry to think that they believe this, it was so sad. But there ya go, propanda outside the U.S.

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Old 03-26-2003, 12:57 PM   #17
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I think both sides use propaganda, if nothing else for boosting moral of their forces - just think how at the start of war both US and Iraquis claimed they were doing great.

For the info, I turn to our own newspaper/TV or German TVs, and CNN.
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Old 03-26-2003, 01:05 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally posted by U2girl
I think both sides use propaganda, if nothing else for boosting moral of their forces - just think how at the start of war both US and Iraquis claimed they were doing great.

For the info, I turn to our own newspaper/TV or German TVs, and CNN.
I agree U2girl -

I do think that Iraqi propanda is more outright lying ( for example, saying that the U.S. and British are blocking humanitarian aid, when in fact we are trying to clear out water mines set by the Iraqi's in order to get aid in) and Coalition propaganda is more about bending things to sound like we are doing well. But to say the media does this is not always the case. The U.S. media last night was very, very questioning on the progress of the war which was good to see.

what differences do you see in your TV coverage and CNN?
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Old 03-26-2003, 01:12 PM   #19
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Erm, actually I don't watch the news on our TV lately, I just turn to teletext and newspaper. They seem to be more critical and questioning toward the Coalition then, say, CNN.
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Old 03-26-2003, 01:16 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally posted by U2girl
Erm, actually I don't watch the news on our TV lately, I just turn to teletext and newspaper. They seem to be more critical and questioning toward the Coalition then, say, CNN.
Slanted towards what you want to hear is still slanted.
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