Probe rules out Iraq-9/11 links

[deep]

There are MORE credible links between Saddam and Rumsfeld, Cheney, Halibuton.

 

[ThatGuy]

Helping the large percentage of Americans who believe that Saddam was involved with 9/11 keep their heads buried in the sand. No facts, please.

The 9/11 commission based their findings on, among other sources, interviews with/interrogations of caputred top al-Qaeda operatives. Thus they were able to reconstruct the events leading up to the attacks with pretty surprsing detail. They were also told from these operatives that Saddam and al-Qaeda did not work together. I don't understand why they would lie about that after giving up all of that useful information about their operations.

 

[MrsSpringsteen]

This probably doesn't really belong in this thread, sorry..but I just read this on CNN.com, in an article about Clinton's book..

"In his book, Clinton also said he met with President-elect George W. Bush and told him that the biggest threat to the nation's security was Osama bin Laden and al-Qaida. According to Clinton, Bush said little in response, and then switched subjects."

I don't know when that meeting happened, maybe the date is in the book

Hmmm..

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5233810/

 

[Dreadsox]

I am still waiting for some evidence that "pro-war" people were in fact saying Saddam was linked to 9/11.

I am betting there is as much evidence of that as there is "pro-war" people said the food for oil program was a good thing.

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Information From a grand jury indictment brought in court by the CLINTON administration:

[Q]Additionally, the indictment states that Al Qaeda reached an agreement
with Iraq not to work against the regime of Saddam Hussein and that
they would work cooperatively with Iraq, particularly in weapons
development.
[/Q]

Why oh why does everyone feel this is just a PROBLEM that this administration had. You do realize that the people who worked in the FBI and the CIA and other agencies do not leave when a new president arrives. This country, republican administration and democratic administration believed they were working together on some level.

http://www.fas.org/irp/news/1998/11/98110602_nlt.html

 

[ThatGuy]

The problem I have is that the 9/11 Commission found no credible evidence for a collaborative link between Iraq and al-Qaeda, yet Bush and Cheney are continuing to insist that there was one. They testified before the commission. If they had evidence of a collaboration then they should have made it available.

Regarding the grand jury indictment from 1998, that's nice, but not really conclusive. As the old saying goes, a prosecutor could indict a ham sandwich if he or she chose to. In a grand jury proceeding prosecutors don't have to present exculpatory evidence. Besides, can we really count on intelligence from 98 to still be current and valid today? Yellowcake from Niger, anyone?

 

[Dreadsox]

Interesting....I have yet to see that they claim they collaborated on 9/11. They have claimed there were connections between them, and the commission clarified itself today saying that that in fact was true.

But, I will defer to the injection of politics into this.

 

[BVS]

I am still waiting for some evidence that "pro-war" people were in fact saying Saddam was linked to 9/11.
QUOTE]

Are you serious? Just take a swim through some past threads in here and see how many times 9/11 was brought when speaking about going to war with Iraq.

 

[Dreadsox]

I am still waiting for some evidence that "pro-war" people were in fact saying Saddam was linked to 9/11.
QUOTE]

Are you serious? Just take a swim through some past threads in here and see how many times 9/11 was brought when speaking about going to war with Iraq.

I am serious. I have very few recollections of anyone saying there was a direct connection between Iraq, Al-Qaeda, and 9/11.

I have seen the argument that WMD falling into the wrong hands was important. But that does not equal 9/11 assistance.

So yes, I am serious.

 

[ThatGuy]

Interesting....I have yet to see that they claim they collaborated on 9/11. They have claimed there were connections between them, and the commission clarified itself today saying that that in fact was true.

But, I will defer to the injection of politics into this.

This is what Lee Hamilton, the vice chairman of the commission, said about Bush and Cheney's satements.

"The president talks in terms of a relationship between the two. The vice president talks in terms of a tie between the two. We talk in terms of contacts between the two," he added.

"All of those words are similar, but clearly relationship and ties suggest more than contacts."

 

[BVS]

I am serious. I have very few recollections of anyone saying there was a direct connection between Iraq, Al-Qaeda, and 9/11.

I have seen the argument that WMD falling into the wrong hands was important. But that does not equal 9/11 assistance.

So yes, I am serious.

I'm too tired to do a search right now but there were posts where people posted online polls that showed somewhere between 40-60 percent of people believed their were Iraqis flying the planes on 9/11, there were quotes from several people of this administration, and many members here who used the argument of 9/11 to go into Iraq.

 

[Moonlit_Angel]

Yep. I talked to people on other boards and stuff who connected the two as well. And when I was at an anti-war rally as the Iraq war was getting ready to start, a guy yelled at me that I had no respect for the people who died in the Twin Towers rolleyes:...). So people definitely did connect the two out there.

Angela

 

[Dreadsox]

The quote I am questioning is Pub Crawler who says that members of this FORUM have put forward this view. I am wondering WHAT members of the forum have put forward this view.

 

[A_Wanderer]

Dread is on the money, I cannot recall any "pro-war" people saying that there was a link between 9/11 and Saddam Hussein, there was certainly linkage between the regime and Al Qaeda from the intelligence we allready know. We may also be forgetting the '93 trade center bombing where there were some serious questions that involve Iraqi intelligence in the plot.

 

[Dreadsox]

And I am still waiting.....

I hate it when people make broad sweeping statements about the more conservative members of the forum.

Oh well the wheels keep spinning round and round.

 

[Klaus]

Dread: you think the "more conservative memebers" are the same group like the "pro-war people"?

 

[Dreadsox]

I was a pro-war person. Sting was a pro-war person.

GO to the original quote:


[Q]Not according to some of the pro-war folk who post on Interference. Some here have been insistent on such linkage since the beginning of the invasion of Iraq but they are thinking with their hearts and not their heads. [/Q]

I want to know who they are, because I am pretty sure neither of us has made such a statement. That is the problem with hiding behind a blanket statement I guess, we will never know.

 

[Klaus]

There were obviousely conservatives who were pro war but i don't think conservatives and "pro war people" are an identical group.
I'm unsure who calls himself conservative, liberal or democrat on this board but in public many democrats supported that war and some conservatives oposed it. So i guess it could have bin the same here.

Maybe an interesting FYM poll

[] Did you support the war and do you call yourself conservative
[] Did you support the war and do you feel you're a democrat
...

 

[Rono]

http://forum.interference.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=91441

 

[Dreadsox]

http://forum.interference.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=91441

I appreciate your dilligence, but no-where did I say that Iraq was linked to 9-11. Isn't that what the 9-11 commission is taking about.

Yes, I believe Iraq was linked to terrorism,,,,I think you would have to be blind to not see that they were.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

And while I make a reference to no links between OSama and Iraq, I do not think I have ever argued for war based on any connection that existed. Again that was the point made by Pub Crawler.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

And finally, the 911 commission also acknowledges that there was realtionship but not an operational one to carryout 911. Not much different than my statement in that thread.

 

[anitram]

Putting aside who said what and when here on the forum, to me, it's pretty obvious that the administration is dishonest to the bone when it comes to this issue.

Millions of dollars were spent investigating Bill Clinton's definition of the word "sex."

Yet, Cheney et al. make deliberately misleading and insinuating statements regarding the connections between Iraq and bin Laden and they are excused based on semantics. That makes about zero sense to me, but here we are.

 

[Dreadsox]

Putting aside who said what and when here on the forum, to me, it's pretty obvious that the administration is dishonest to the bone when it comes to this issue.

It all depends on how you look at it. I have yet to find a quote in which the administration said Iraq was involved in 911. I believe they were involved in terrorism. I heard the President declare war on terrorism. It seems pretty logical to me.

Millions of dollars were spent investigating Bill Clinton's definition of the word "sex."

That isn't exactly the truth. Bill Clinton lied in his deposition during a case in which he was being sued for sexual harassment. If he had not lied from the beginning, there would have been no investigation. If people in the armed forces lose rank, pay, and jobs over the same thing, then why should the president get away with it?

Yet, Cheney et al. make deliberately misleading and insinuating statements regarding the connections between Iraq and bin Laden and they are excused based on semantics. That makes about zero sense to me, but here we are.

I would say to you, do you not believe that Iraq was involved in terrorism? Is Putin lying that they were planning attacks in the US? Didn't Saddam attempt to assasinate former President Bush?

I am sorry, but, the linkage to 911 is not important to me. I never thought they were connected other than by the fact that Al-QAEDA was trynig to hurt the US because we had been forced by Iraq to keep a military presence there.

 

[anitram]

There is terrorism and there is al Qaeda terrorism. What has Saddam's assassination of Bush have to do with bin Laden?

The point is that you may not care about 9/11 and Saddam, but when the majority of your country believes that the majority of hijackers were Iraqi (proven by multiple polls, over and over again) and the VP of your country continuously insinuates a connection between the two, then you've got a problem.

How do you think that the majority of Americans came to believe that Atta and his gang were Iraqi? Did they just wake up one morning and pull that out of their ass? Are they all ignorant fools or is there a reason why they were collectively lead to this conclusion?

 

[FizzingWhizzbees]

What's interesting is that immediately after September 11th, only 3% of Americans believed that Saddam Hussein or Iraq were responsible for the attacks. By the time the war began some polls put the number of Americans believing Saddam was involved in September 11th at above 50%. Interesting.

 

[Dreadsox]

I do not believe that the average American cares if Iraq were involved in 9/11 or not. The fact is, the President called this a war on terrorism. If the President were to remain true to his initial statements after 9/11 and make it a war on terrorism, Iraq was a target for multiple reasons, their involvement in other forms of terrorism being one of them.

Polls demonstrate that the average American has NOT done their homework.

 

[Dreadsox]

Anitram, I have never seen any poll indicating that Americans felt Atta was an Iraqi.

Do you have a link to such a poll?

[Q]The Sept. 11 commission's staff report said there had been contact between Iraqis and al Qaeda members including a Sudan meeting between al Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden and Iraqi intelligence officers.

But the panel concluded that Iraq never responded to a bin Laden request for help and said there was no evidence of a "collaborative relationship." [/Q]

 

[melon]

I do not believe that the average American cares if Iraq were involved in 9/11 or not.

I also don't think the average American cares about anything really.

Melon

 

[pub crawler]

The quote I am questioning is Pub Crawler who says that members of this FORUM have put forward this view. I am wondering WHAT members of the forum have put forward this view.

I find it curious, Dread, that you seem to take my words as a personal indictment of you. I didn't name any names, and I'm not going to spend a lot of time poring through threads to find posts where people have made statements that seem to reflect the idea behind our blessed President's deceitful rhetoric concerning the Iraq-9/11 linkage issue. (It is clear that you and I disagree on the notion of President Bush being deceitful in this manner).

That said, since you asked, I did do a bit of searching and found a couple of "joke" threads that illustrate my point. One of them was posted by you: http://forum.interference.com/t85843.html

I'm curious, Dread, what was your point in posting that thread?

And what was your point in posting the Osama/Sadaam cartoon earlier in this thread?

By the way, here's the other "joke" thread, posted by my old friend diamond: http://forum.interference.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=74073

 

[pub crawler]

I was a pro-war person. Sting was a pro-war person.

GO to the original quote:


[Q]Not according to some of the pro-war folk who post on Interference. Some here have been insistent on such linkage since the beginning of the invasion of Iraq but they are thinking with their hearts and not their heads. [/Q]

I want to know who they are, because I am pretty sure neither of us has made such a statement. That is the problem with hiding behind a blanket statement I guess, we will never know.

Oh, so you and Sting are the only "pro war" people posting on Interference? I don't think so, Dread. Many people of all different political stripes -- including "pro war" folk -- have come, made a few posts and gone in the last 2 years.

 

[pub crawler]

And by the way, I don't believe that Sting has made any comments linking Iraq/Sadaam to 9/11. In fact in my search I read a post where he made it very clear that he did not believe that there was any such linkage.

 

[RockNRollDawgie]

I know Paul McCartney has recently come out not in favor of the war, citing he was misled that Iraq had ties with 9/11.
Also said, he won't perfom the song "Freedom" anymore.