prior knowledge of September 11th, 2001

[kobayashi]

i know this is not going to go over well. this is a very sensitive issue with all of us, i would think, and understandably so. but this is gaining force within a surprisingly mainstream media. some of you might ask me why post it if it's stupid, well i feel when something garnishes this much attention from the mass media it is worth investigating and finding some value perhaps. in short, i ask you not to flame me if possible. however if you still feel the need do so

at face value i do not agree with what is contained within these articles. i have read very little on this subject so would not want to make any firm inferences from my limited knowledge. what i have read seems forced, stressed and entirely implausible.

BUT a fair amount of it is coming from fairly reputable media organizations. though they are of course not to be believed at all costs, the issue does seem to be gaining currency with media consumers.
many of these beliefs seem to be based on the fact that former President G Bush now sits on the Board of the 11th largest weapons manufacturer in America, obviously a position which would benefit from the occurance of a war, as reported by the WSJ. BBC Newsnight reports the White House orders the FBI to back off in it's investigations into the bin Laden family. I won't continue here but other media outlets like The Guardian, the L.A. Times, SAPRA(an Indian wire service), Reuters, Le Figaro, MSNBC all contribute to some extent.

this is of course a wild idea. and just upon a cursory evaluation i alone can spot many holes. are all these media outlets just bending to public desire for scandal?
is congresswoman mckinney committing political suicide by being the only one to publicly press these issues? does anyone actually agree with any of this stuff or read enough to form a properly based opinion, if they feel the need?
anyway here are the links:
a 'timeline' of 'events'
global research

then there is the further-than-far-flung idea that flight 77 fell just short of the pentagon and coincided with an explosion at the pentagon which caused it to partially collapse.
i realizesweet liberty is in no way a reputable media source but the piece is made up mainly of cnn quotes.
and of course a counter point

any thoughts or am i just disturbing what should be left alone?

[This message has been edited by kobayashi (edited 05-04-2002).]

[Se7en]

It's an intersting topic, no doubt about that. However, Just as you I am not well enough informed on what has been going on to form an educated opinion.

Perhaps someone here has some more info on all of this...

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Rock 'N Roll is the sound of revenge.

[z edge]

Well
I didn't bother reading your links.
If you are implying at all that President George H.W. Bush has anything to do with 9-11, stop now please. I mean even if you are just posting something that is not your own opinion, but want to post it for whatever reason it is not a good idea.

[kobayashi]

Originally posted by z edge:
I mean even if you are just posting something that is not your own opinion, but want to post it for whatever reason it is not a good idea.

i think i pretty clearly said in my post z edge that is not my opinion.
however, i see no problem in bringing in outside opinions and looking for reactions to them. as off the wall as these opinions seem to be to me and virtually if not all here i am sure, there is some real attention being given to them, hence my post. if it were not for the mainstream media coverage i would not have brought it up.

[Danospano]

ZEdge, why do you not want anyone to say that? Hypothetically, if it was true that Dubya knew in advance would you still want to cover you're ears? I'm not trying to hostile, I'm just wondering why you want to shut off debate about the issue?

-Dan

[z edge]

Koby and Danno,
I didn't mean to assume it was your opinion (Koby) as I read your post twice before replying the first time. However, I see I did anyway so sorry for that.

Here's my thoughts about this though, and why I would rather not see it here.

Back in 93 when Bill Clinton first took office, some jackass in a prominent position in my unit made a really stupid statement in front of his subordinates.

Within a couple of days, the unit was crawling with secret service asking all types of questions and things got pretty intense for a while. And this was over a comment that really wasn't threatning, but the perception of it was.

Before you laugh at me too hard let me explain I only stated what I did earlier in the best intrest of the forum as a whole, and would not want to have scrutiny from outside sources affecting this place. And my worries are not from what either of you have posted, rather what might occour 20-30 posts form now hypothetically speaking.

I guarantee you that some of the credible news sources who may participate in this (once again, i did not read them so I am only speculating) could be faced with some type of "attention" that they may not welcome. They are famaliar enough to the general public to fall under a protective umbrella, of some small extent, one that this forum could not enjoy.

In all good faith gentlemen, I am not trying to debate or bicker, please accept my thoughts as sincere and relevant.

[meegannie]

Originally posted by kobayashi:

then there is the further-than-far-flung idea that flight 77 fell just short of the pentagon and coincided with an explosion at the pentagon which caused it to partially collapse.

How can anyone even claim this when people actually witnessed the plane flying into the Pentagon? Several of the buildings in Arlington have a good view of the Pentagon.

[z edge]

In Koby's defense, he did say further-than-far-flung idea, but still?

[meegannie]

Originally posted by z edge:
In Koby's defense, he did say further-than-far-flung idea, but still?

I didn't mean for that to sound like it was directed at him. Sorry, Koby!

[brettig]

z edge, do u really think this sort of stuff will have the Secret Service out to shut this place down?

[martha]

Originally posted by z edge:


I guarantee you that some of the credible news sources who may participate in this (once again, i did not read them so I am only speculating) could be faced with some type of "attention" that they may not welcome. They are famaliar enough to the general public to fall under a protective umbrella, of some small extent, one that this forum could not enjoy.

What Koby posted was not a threat against anyone; he was simply asking questions. I hate to think that asking questions is perceived as the same as making a threat. If it is, then we all need to keep asking questions.

As for the allegations, I think they're bullshit.

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You have fairly generic bunions. --my podiatrist, 4-11-02

[meegannie]

I think all the conspiracy theory stuff gets a little out of hand sometimes.

[z edge]

Originally posted by brettig:
z edge, do u really think this sort of stuff will have the Secret Service out to shut this place down?

Well, I hope not, but my experience is that they would at least take intrest in this kind of thing, at the original source. And follow it to all of the leads and the sites who show intrest in this.

I mean, look at the accusation, that will get intrest (at the original source)

Gosh, I hate to sound paranoid, besides the fact that I think it's crap, but lets not take this where we can invite this kind of trouble please.

[kobayashi]

well if flags are raised about this in CARNIVOR, or whatever the net scan thingamajiggy is called, and CSIS(that's canadian security intelligence service for those who don't know, and i've actually been talking to them about a career of all things, this may ruin that tho ) and the CIA show up at my door tommorow i'll be sure to have somebody post for me to let y'all know

seriously the only reason i post such is to see if anyone has read enough of it. if anything i have a greater interest in the media exposure part of it. but it is rare for someone like say the la times or bbc to pick up such an outlandish story without something firm.

once again please understand i do not believe any of this. i haven't read enough to understand and based on what little i have i'm relatively certain i don't want to.

[z edge]

Koby, with my current endeavours, they wanted to know what type of underware I wore in the 6th grade. So I hope you don't go through that, or do I?

I did draw a wonderful charcoal drawing of Reagan in 3rd grade, if I can find it soon I will send it to his son Michael Reagan, as a gift.

[80sU2isBest]

Liam Gallagher is a jerk. There - I said it.

[Zooropa]

Originally posted by meegannie:
I think all the conspiracy theory stuff gets a little out of hand sometimes.

Absolutly. Not everything has a sinister government plot behind it.

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Don't let the bastards grind you down.

Zooropa FTP

[This message has been edited by Zooropa (edited 05-05-2002).]

[Miss MacPhisto]

It was widely reported that the CIA, FBI, and NSA ALL knew in advance that the attacks were going to happen. Yet oddly, nothing was done.
I strongly believe that the US government is at least partly responsible for what happened. They are as guilty as Osama bin laden.
I've talked to many people about this, and we all agree that we smell a rat. I'm not saying its Dubbya,and other than the 3 agencies i mentioned, I certainly am not informed enough to say who is and who is not also responsible, but there is something going on here...

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Look...look what you've done to me...You've made me poor and infamous, and I thank you...

My name is MISS MACPHISTO...I'm tired and i want to go HOME...

"Well you tell...Bonovista,that i said hello and that my codename is Belleview" - Bono before opening night of Anaheim Elevation concert

Well tonight thank God it's them, instead of you...

[This message has been edited by Miss MacPhisto (edited 05-05-2002).]

[80sU2isBest]

Originally posted by Miss MacPhisto:
It was widely reported that the CIA, FBI, and NSA ALL knew in advance that the attacks were going to happen.

"Widely" reported? By whom?

[Danospano]

Z Edge: You're cowardness is sad. I don't think anyone living in America, "Home of the Free" should be fearful of the government just because they might rally behind an idea that doesn't fall within the clear of el presidente. I feel sorry for all those like you as well. I thought Americans were strong and full of pride? Am I wrong?

I for one wouldn't dismiss the idea of CIA, FBI, etc prior knowledge. Then again, I'm sure these government offices have hundreds of leads concerning terrorism. Just because one slipped through the cracks doesn't mean nothing was down beforehand. A fitting analogy would be like grocery shopping: You need to get milk, bread, soda, chips, celery, baking soda and another couple dozen objects. You go to the store, get everything, go home, and then realize that you forgot the celery.---Things slip through the cracks when you have tons of things to worry about. Of course, the US government has thousands of people worrying about fewer problems, so it does sound embarassing that they would ignore or choose to ignore the 9/11 attacks.