Presidential "telephone"

[ThatGuy]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A26935-2004Aug23.html

Do You Hear What I Hear?

By Dana Milbank
Tuesday, August 24, 2004; Page A15

The 2004 presidential campaign sometimes resembles the children's game of "telephone." Here are some quotations as they came out of Democratic nominee John F. Kerry's mouth -- and how President Bush and Vice President Cheney later recounted them.

"Every performer tonight in their own way, either verbally or through their music, through their lyrics, have conveyed to you the heart and soul of our country." -- Kerry, July 8

"The other day, my opponent said he thought you could find the heart and soul of America in Hollywood." -- Bush, Aug. 18

"My goal, my diplomacy, my statesmanship is to get our troops reduced in number and I believe if you do the statesmanship properly, I believe if you do the kind of alliance building that is available to us, that it's appropriate to have a goal of reducing the troops over that period of time [the first six months of a Kerry administration]. Obviously, we'd have to see how events unfold. . . . It is an appropriate goal to have and I'm going to try to achieve it." -- Kerry, Aug. 9

"I took exception when my opponent said if he's elected, we'll substantially reduce the troops in six months. He shouldn't have said that. See, it sends a mixed signal to the enemy for starters. So the enemy hangs around for six months and one day. . . . It says, maybe America isn't going to keep its word." -- Bush, Aug. 18

"I will fight this war on terror with the lessons I learned in war. I defended this country as a young man, and I will defend it as president of the United States. I believe I can fight a more effective, more thoughtful, more strategic, more proactive, more sensitive war on terror that reaches out to other nations and brings them to our side and lives up to American values in history. I lay out a strategy to strengthen our military, to build and lead strong alliances and reform our intelligence system. I set out a path to win the peace in Iraq and to get the terrorists wherever they may be before they get us." -- Kerry, Aug. 5

"Senator Kerry has also said that if he were in charge he would fight a 'more sensitive' war on terror. America has been in too many wars for any of our wishes, but not a one of them was won by being sensitive. . . . Those who threaten us and kill innocents around the world do not need to be treated more sensitively. They need to be destroyed." -- Cheney, Aug. 12

"Lee Hamilton, the co-chairman of the 9/11 commission, has said this administration is not moving with the urgency necessary to respond to our needs. I believe this administration and its policies is actually encouraging the recruitment of terrorists. We haven't done the work necessary to reach out to other countries. We haven't done the work necessary with the Muslim world. We haven't done the work necessary to protect our own ports, our chemical facilities, our nuclear facilities. There is a long, long list in the 9/11 recommendations that are undone." -- Kerry, Aug. 2

"My opponent says . . . that going to war with the terrorists is actually improving their recruiting efforts. I think the logic -- I know the logic is upside down. It shows a misunderstanding of the nature of these people. See, during the 1990s, these killers and terrorists were recruiting and training for war with us, long before we went to war with them. They don't need an excuse for their hatred. It's wrong to blame America for anger and the evil of these killers. We don't create terrorists by fighting back. You defeat the terrorists by fighting back." -- Bush, Aug. 18

"Yes, I would have voted for the authority [to use force in Iraq]. I believe it is the right authority for a president to have. But I would have used that authority, as I have said throughout this campaign, effectively. I would have done this very differently from the way President Bush has. My question to President Bush is: Why did he rush to war without a plan to win the peace? Why did he rush to war on faulty intelligence and not do the hard work necessary to give America the truth?" -- Kerry, Aug. 9

"He now agrees it was the right decision to go into Iraq. After months of questioning my motives, and even my credibility, the Massachusetts senator now agrees with me that even though we have not found the stockpiles of weapons we all believed were there, knowing everything we know today, he would have voted to go into Iraq and remove Saddam Hussein from power." -- Bush, Aug. 18

 

[nbcrusader]

Does Milbank not understand politics, or does he just have selective memory?

 

[ThatGuy]

Feel free to post examples of Kerry doing the same thing, nbc.

 

[stammer476]

Some of the those examples are a little stretched, but this isn't very convincing to me. It's just politics.

 

[nbcrusader]

I would expect Milbank to do that, otherwise we can post partisian views all day long.....

 

[ThatGuy]

 

[najeena]

Can you hear me now?

 

[indra]

Bush can't figure out what he's trying to say, let along figure out what anyone else is saying. Pitiful, just pitiful.

 

[nbcrusader]

When does the effigy burning start?

 

[indra]

When does the effigy burning start?

Oh, please....

Each and every statement (in the post...I didn't register to check the link) by Kerry was completely twisted by Bush or Cheney to something completely different. Yep, it's politics -- dirty, nasty politics -- and it says much about the men.

 

[nbcrusader]

partisian

 

[Calluna]

partisian

Oh, like you never posted anything partisan.

 

[Scarletwine]

Kerry doesn't have to twist Bush's words, he does that all by himself

All Kerry has to do is point out Bush's real record of complete failure of policy for all but the wealthy and corps.

 

[nbcrusader]

You want "twisting" of words???

Bush said, "I think Sen. Kerry served admirably. He ought to be -- he ought to be proud of his record.

Kerry stated, "The Bush campaign and its allies have turned to the tactics of fear and smear"

Seems that Kerry can talk out of both sides of his mouth quite nicely.




We could fill pages of quotes and how those quotes are taken out of context. But it wouldn't accomplish a thing.

 

[indra]

Re: You want "twisting" of words???

Bush said, "I think Sen. Kerry served admirably. He ought to be -- he ought to be proud of his record.

Quote:
Kerry stated, "The Bush campaign and its allies have turned to the tactics of fear and smear"

Seems that Kerry can talk out of both sides of his mouth quite nicely.

Huh? I mean it's not even the same thing. The Bush quote was only made after a huge amount of pushing...and it was pretty pathetic. He should have denounced the ads (we all know which ones), but this is all he could grudgingly offer. And both quotes are true...there is a big difference right off. Kerry did serve admirably, and he should be proud of his record....and the Bush campaign (and their buddies) have exploited fear and smear tactics. I don't quite see how this example proves your point at all.

 

[nbcrusader]

Re: Re: You want "twisting" of words???

Huh? I mean it's not even the same thing. The Bush quote was only made after a huge amount of pushing...and it was pretty pathetic. He should have denounced the ads (we all know which ones), but this is all he could grudgingly offer. And both quotes are true...there is a big difference right off. Kerry did serve admirably, and he should be proud of his record....and the Bush campaign (and their buddies) have exploited fear and smear tactics. I don't quite see how this example proves your point at all.

That's plain BS. Bush has made the same statement a number of times (without Kerry's prompting). If Kerry wants to paint Bush as "fear and smear" tactics, he's ignoring Bush's statements.

Bush has NO obligation to denounce 3rd party efforts. Kerry has enjoyed the benefits of the efforts by MoveOn and Moore. Bush wasn't crying in the news to make them stop.

It's a shame that Kerry centered his campaign around his Vietnam experience, when it turns out to be so fragile from scrutiny.

 

[BVS]

Re: You want "twisting" of words???

Seems that Kerry can talk out of both sides of his mouth quite nicely.




We could fill pages of quotes and how those quotes are taken out of context. But it wouldn't accomplish a thing.

The difference truly lies in the fact that the previous were claiming to quote Kerry, Kerry was stating what many feel to be true. One's an opinion that may or may not be true, the others are examples of truly twisting someone's words.

 

[nbcrusader]

Nice spin.




There is no quoting going on, only interpretation. It happens all day long. Of course we can always argue that our guy is more righteous when doing it.

 

[Salome]

It's a shame that Kerry centered his campaign around his Vietnam experience

that's true yes

IMO the biggest problem Kerry has it that he doesn't dare to play the "vote for me because I'm not Bush" strategy (and work in some of your own plans along the way) because this would leave him open for some harsh criticism
but this would probably lead to the best results in the end

 

[BVS]

Nice spin.




There is no quoting going on, only interpretation. It happens all day long. Of course we can always argue that our guy is more righteous when doing it.

Where's the spin? The original thread showed quotes from Cheney and Bush saying "my opponent said", they claimed to be quoting him. The one you showed did not. You showed an opinion of Kerry's. It makes a huge difference.

 

[nbcrusader]

They are not "quotes". If they were, the press would have challenged each assertion immediately (instead of a one-sided op-ed piece that was posted). They are paraphrases or interpretations of positions, not quotes.

The same thing happened when Bush thought a national sales tax should be examined further, yet Kerry said Bush wanted to impose the largest tax increase in history. Its all part of politics.

 

[ThatGuy]

They are not "quotes". If they were, the press would have challenged each assertion immediately ...

Just like the claims of the Swift Boat Vets? Sadly, the press has taken the attitude that they should just report what both sides are saying rather than trying to find out if what they're saying is true. Whether it's in a news article or a talking heads show, the press feels that if both sides are represented it has done its job, even if one side isn't telling the truth.

Interesting piece from the Columbia Journalism Review:
http://www.campaigndesk.org/archives/000851.asp

They are quotes, though.

"My goal, my diplomacy, my statesmanship is to get our troops reduced in number and I believe if you do the statesmanship properly, I believe if you do the kind of alliance building that is available to us, that it's appropriate to have a goal of reducing the troops over that period of time [the first six months of a Kerry administration]. Obviously, we'd have to see how events unfold. . . . It is an appropriate goal to have and I'm going to try to achieve it." -- Kerry, Aug. 9

Here's where he said it:
http://news.myway.com/top/article/id/381249|top|08-09-2004::17:46|reuters.html

"I took exception when my opponent said if he's elected, we'll substantially reduce the troops in six months. He shouldn't have said that. See, it sends a mixed signal to the enemy for starters. So the enemy hangs around for six months and one day. . . . It says, maybe America isn't going to keep its word." -- Bush, Aug. 18

Here's where he said it:
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2004/08/20040818-11.html