President Bush keeping his promise on way to Africa- - U2 Feedback

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Old 12-16-2002, 07:08 PM   #1
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President Bush keeping his promise on way to Africa-

Jan 10 2003.

Bono stated earlier he thought GW gives a shit about how the world sees Africa and wants the world to know America is concerned for Africa..

Bono also stated after GW's meeting w Bono in the Oval Office that he refered to the AIDS Crisis in Africa as genocide.
I think the reason Bush is going is because he is a decent human being..
Period.

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Old 12-16-2002, 07:24 PM   #2
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Re: President Bush keeping his promise on way to Africa-

Quote:
Originally posted by diamond
Jan 10 2003.

Bono stated earlier he thought GW gives a shit about how the world sees Africa and wants the world to know America is concerned for Africa..

Bono also stated after GW's meeting w Bono in the Oval Office that he refered to the AIDS Crisis in Africa as genocide.
I think the reason Bush is going is because he is a decent human being..
Period.

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Diamond
I am sure many of you watched Bono on Larry King.


One thing Bono said was that of the top 23 industrialized nations the U. S. is 23rd in giving aid.
That is shameful.

Bono also said the War on Terror must be fought equally with the War on Poverty.
That 40% of the African continent is Muslim and the U. S. would benefit more from giving aide and saving lives.

As the President of the U. S., Bush needs to give more to Africa, than just a shit.
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Old 12-16-2002, 07:42 PM   #3
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Something needs to be clarified here. The USA is 23rd in giving aid as a percentage of its GDP. But as a simple money total, its higher than most of the countries if not all the countries on that list! When looking at it correctly, how can you say that is shameful?

Plus, no one looks at the vast amount of money that the USA spends every year to help keep peace and stability around the world. Were talking hundreds of Billions of dollars. This is a totally unmatched contribution to international peace and stability. In addition the USA has the the most open economy to trade on the planet! US consumers by nearly 2 Trillion dollars worth of goods and services from around the world! This should also be included when looking at foreign aid.

I agree with Bono that the USA should increase its direct humanitarian foreign aid part of the budget. But I would not characterize current foreign aid efforts as shameful.
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Old 12-17-2002, 02:40 AM   #4
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But sting they are still 23rd.

And i do agree that they do give alot of military to other nations. But AIDS money is not high on their list. Maybe when there is no buddy left to save they will start to put the money where their mouth is. Thats like saying that if you had a millionaire and a person that makes 10000 a year and they both give 1000 dollars it allright because you are giving just as much moneyif not more. Come on. But you do admit they need to give more so i think you are in agreeness(sp) with me but are to afraid to admit it...
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Old 12-17-2002, 02:02 PM   #5
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Yeah, I am sure it was GWB's idea to go to Africa.


He probably does not even know where Africa is...


Eat that!!!


(brought to you by friends of OUIZY'04)
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Old 12-17-2002, 02:03 PM   #6
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Re: Re: President Bush keeping his promise on way to Africa-

Quote:
Originally posted by Hi Bias


1-I am sure many of you watched Bono on Larry King.


2-One thing Bono said was that of the top 23 industrialized nations the U. S. is 23rd in giving aid.
That is shameful.

3-Bono also said the War on Terror must be fought equally with the War on Poverty.
That 40% of the African continent is Muslim and the U. S. would benefit more from giving aide and saving lives.

4-As the President of the U. S., Bush needs to give more to Africa, than just a shit.
Mr Biashead-
I noticed some hostility in your post.


Anyway...-

re the items in your post my responses..





#1-yes i did he also said he thought Pres Bush understood the emergency of AIDS/Africa, along w Clinton..-

#2-sometimes if ppl have diffrent methods of addressing a crisis, doesnt make one shameful.
you need to get past that logic


#3- i agree, perhaps Bush will come around to this, and if he did would u applaud him for that, here??

#4-i think he does..

Peace
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Old 12-17-2002, 02:05 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally posted by ouizy
Yeah, I am sure it was GWB's idea to go to Africa.


He probably does not even know where Africa is...


Eat that!!!


(brought to you by friends of OUIZY'04)
Ouizy-
that was not one of your better posts..
regardless,
Merry Christmas,
Diamond
xxox
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Old 12-17-2002, 02:22 PM   #8
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I know - I am just a little sleepy from my Wonton soup and was a little excited by the prospects "we" now have that Gore has decided to do the right thing and hibernate.

Late last night I was watching an old documentary about Muhammed Ali and his fight against George Forman in Zaire.

I only hope John Kerry will have the heart Ali did during that fight...


Happy Holidays to you Diamond, and the rest of the lot, Have a great New Years as well...

PS. Diamond I think I may be in Scottsdale again for a brief stint sometime near May - I would love some recommendations for a restaurant or two...
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Old 12-17-2002, 03:05 PM   #9
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Don`t take me wrong, it is great all this help, but does the western world listen to Africa when they say what they need ?

For example,..

There is a huge foodproblem in Zambia and millions are in danger to die of hunger. There is a lot of American corn in storage for Zambia but the Zambian goverment do not want it because it is genetic engineerd corn. Why should we force this corn to Zambia when there is enough not genetic engeneerd corn to give.

I think that Zambia has the right to say no. The reason for reject genetic corn is simple and valid. This genetic corn will cross with natural corn so Zambia can`t sell natural corn in the future to other country`s.

Read you,...
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Old 12-17-2002, 03:24 PM   #10
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the Zambia situation (it's been in the news quite prolific over here) also entered my mind when reading this thread
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Old 12-17-2002, 03:52 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally posted by STING2
Something needs to be clarified here. The USA is 23rd in giving aid as a percentage of its GDP. But as a simple money total, its higher than most of the countries if not all the countries on that list! When looking at it correctly, how can you say that is shameful?
I am reminded of the story in the New Testament about the Pharisee and the poor widow giving their offerings. The Pharisee gave more in terms of a monetary sum and was very proud of himself for being so holy, even though he was very rich and the amount was only a small percentage of his total wealth. The widow gave only 2 pennies, but it was all she had. Remember which one Jesus commended?

Food for thought.
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Old 12-17-2002, 06:13 PM   #12
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I have said I think the USA should increase the percentage of the budget that goes to humanitarian aid. After all, its in our long term national interest to do just that. But I wanted to emphasize that the lump sum that the USA gives is more than most countries because clearly there are many here that may not have realized that. In addition I do not think the current percentage that goes to humanitarian aid to be "shameful". But it should definitely be increased. How many interferencer's here give all their "disposable income" to charity instead of going to U2 concerts, movies, out to eat, etc? How do you judge whether this level of giving or that level of giving is shameful? What about #22 or #20 or #15, was their level of aid as a percentage of their GDP, "shameful"?

Bonoman,

Your example between the millionaire and the person making 10,000 dollars is not accurate. I do not believe the USA's total wealth is several 100 times that of the other countries on the list. To really look at this acurately, we need to see the percentage of each countries GDP that goes to humanitarian aid. Although the USA is behind, I do not think they are nearly behind by the level you seem to be indicating.

In addition, I think there are few people here that realize the enormous scale of the USA's defense efforts around the world that keep peace and stability. The value of that to the world is so huge its impossible to caculate. The USA has the most open economy on the planet and USA consumers buy nearly 2 Trillion dollars worth of goods and services from around the world every year. These are two important facts that deserve just as much mention as the amount that the USA spends on humanitarian aid.

Rono,

Totally off topic and not even something for this forum, just wanted to say that Steeltown is my favorite Big Country Album!
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Old 12-17-2002, 08:07 PM   #13
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Sting, i will take alook later on for that percentages. Then we can talk about it. Because really we dont have a clue without the actual facts!
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Old 12-17-2002, 08:07 PM   #14
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Re: Re: Re: President Bush keeping his promise on way to Africa-

Quote:
Originally posted by diamond

#3- i agree, perhaps Bush will come around to this, and if he did would u applaud him for that, here??

Yes, I would!

Also, there is an opportunity for all Americans to speak their mind and support helping Africa financially.

http://www.datadata.org/whitehouse_action.htm

Please call the White House tomorrow and show your support!
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Old 12-17-2002, 10:19 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally posted by STING2
Something needs to be clarified here. The USA is 23rd in giving aid as a percentage of its GDP. But as a simple money total, its higher than most of the countries if not all the countries on that list! When looking at it correctly, how can you say that is shameful?

Plus, no one looks at the vast amount of money that the USA spends every year to help keep peace and stability around the world. Were talking hundreds of Billions of dollars. This is a totally unmatched contribution to international peace and stability. In addition the USA has the the most open economy to trade on the planet! US consumers by nearly 2 Trillion dollars worth of goods and services from around the world! This should also be included when looking at foreign aid.

I agree with Bono that the USA should increase its direct humanitarian foreign aid part of the budget. But I would not characterize current foreign aid efforts as shameful.

I would characterise it as SHAMEFUL.

here is the data
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Old 12-17-2002, 11:28 PM   #16
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Myself as well would say it is shameful for the USA to have these numbers. My country is just as bad. SHAMEFUL!

Yes you were right Sting the US does give the most, but only .1% of their GNP. Did anyone else notice how the top 14 were all countries from Europe. Maybe Europe does aprciate what others have done for them and are showing it by helping others?

I repeat for many countries this is very SHAMEFUL!!
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Old 12-17-2002, 11:37 PM   #17
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Hi Bias,

Hey thanks for the web link with the numbers. That is a very interesting web site although some area's are clearly biased and unobjective. So why do you characterize USA development aid spending as "shameful" in light of the other things the USA does for the rest of the world in terms of defense and international trade. US forces are deployed around the world and ensure peace and security in Asia, the Persian Gulf Region and of course Europe and are ready to respond to problems in other places as well at a level and speed no where near matched by any other country on Earth even taking into acount the size of the country. US consumers buy nearly 2 Trillion dollars in goods and services every year from the global community. In addition, while the US government may only spend about 11 Billion dollars on development aid per year, the value of charitable giving from private US citizens to help development overseas is 34 Billion dollars per year! US citizens have a much lower tax burden than many other countries. But still what country out there can match the private donations of US citizens to foreign development aid?

I do think the USA should increase aid to the .7 level although I'm not sure if that would be politically possible in the USA. I'd think reaching the average that the other 22 countries spend at which is .38 of GDP is more realisitic but even that would be difficult to achieve. Still I do not see giving 11 Billion dollars in develoment aid to be "Shameful" in light of the other things the USA does for the world community and has done for the world community in the past. Guess who rebuilt Europe and Japan after World War II? No single country in history has ever taken on a task that large.

But if the level of development aid is "shameful" why has no one mentioned Italy or Canada's levels of aid as "Shameful"? What level of spending on development aid would you consider NOT to be "shameful"?
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Old 12-18-2002, 04:25 AM   #18
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Sting, I said two times n my last post that Canada's foriegn aid was shameful. It is very much shameful but because Canada and Italy is shameful does not make your countrries aid any less shameful. Canada just blew 2 billion on a gun registry that went nowhere. My country is certainnily at fault!!

But Sting just because the USA built Europe back to what it is today does not excuse this. EVERY country should be giving .7 persent. MINIMUM!!!

You keep bring up this 2 trillion dollar figure. We got it. !!

But you know as well as i that this 2 trillion would not be happening if it didnt cause your country to gain money. Every bit of money givin to trade is given back to the US. Canada exports 71% of all GDP. Does that make Canada any less acountable then anyone else. It seems to me that you are hiding behind your milatary spending. Which is huge. But is something that again benefits your country as well. It seems to me that you agree but are to afraid to admit that the USA is fully wrong. 0.1 percent of GDP is shameful. And 0.23 (Canada) is equally shameful. Any country that is not giving what is asked by the UN is shameful. Sting dont be afraid to admit your country is wrong. It doesnt make your arguements for your pro America stance any worse off.
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Old 12-18-2002, 01:33 PM   #19
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Canada gives 0.23%, compared to USA 0.11%. So that's more than double and it's still pathetic and embarrassing.
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Old 12-18-2002, 09:17 PM   #20
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Bonoman,

Your post in response to high bias came right before my response did, so I had not seen your post until I finished writing and posting mine.

The fact that US consumers buy nearly 2 Trillion dollars worth of goods is not something that can be swept under the rug. Allowing US consumers to buy all these foreign goods is a huge benefit to the global economy, and yes the USA does benefit as well.

But the USA also benefits by providing humanitarian aid. Economic development of the third world is very beneficial to key US foreign policy interest.

Canada's exports benefit Canada directly, so I don't think you would use that as a factor in showing that Canada helps the world. Canada's imports are what it buys from the rest of the world and that is what directly benefits other countries.

The USA spends nearly 400 Billion dollars every year on essentially international security! Few countries come close to this level of spending even as a percentage of GDP. International Security is extremely important as it helps prevent anarchy and war and can protect regions and countries from the actions and moves of other countries. Without the international security and stability that the USA provides many regions of the world, discussions of and or actions to develop the third world would not be possible, because of the instability and war that would exist in several other countries and regions of the world.

There is no attempt to hide behind spending on the military. The attempt to narrowly define international aid as simply development aid is incorrect and un-objective. Military spending, free trade, and development aid are all important parts of international aid. I've tried to show you and others here the lack of military support that the USA recieves from countries like Canada. Canada needs to more than double its defense budget, perhaps triple it. The USA spends nearly 4% of its GDP on defense while a country like Canada spends only .9%. When it came to military action in Kosovo to prevent the slaughter of muslims by the Serb military, over 90% of the combat missions flown, were flown by the US military. If force is needed to disarm Iraq and bring it into compliance with 16 different UN resolutions passed under chapter 7 rules, the vast majority of the forces involved in combat will be US forces.

You cannot dismiss these facts and sweep them under the rug. While the USA needs to increase its development aid, it does far more than its share in safe guarding security in places all around the world and imports nearly 2 Trillion dollars of goods from other countries. These two factors more than make up or balance out the USA's lower level of development aid. Still the USA should increase development aid because it is in the USA's best interest to do so.
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