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Old 04-04-2008, 07:46 AM   #1
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Pregnant Man - "Love Makes A Family"

NY Post

April 4, 2008 --

It's no hoax - this guy really is pregnant.

Thomas Beatie, the transgender man with the world's most famous baby bump, appeared with his wife, Nancy, on "The Oprah Winfrey Show" yesterday - explaining the hows and whys of his bizarre journey.

Beatie, 34, is six months' pregnant and on target to deliver a healthy girl - which he is carrying in the womb he kept intact when he became a man 10 years ago.

There was speculation Beatie was pulling a huge hoax when pictures of him appearing to be pregnant turned up on the Internet.

But he and his wife, who live in Bend, Ore., laid those rumors to rest on yesterday's "Oprah," which included a chat with their obstetrician - who declared their baby "totally healthy" - and footage of the baby's ultrasound.

Thomas Beatie said he was born Tracy Beatie and lived as a woman until his 20s. He even competed in the Miss Teen Hawaii USA beauty pageant as a youth (he made it to the finals).

"Growing up I really didn't have a perception of myself [as a girl]," the bearded Beatie told Oprah Winfrey.

"When I was a teenager I had an attraction to women, but it wasn't a sexual attraction," he said. "I was much of a tomboy who liked to play with Legos and go fishing . . . probably up until puberty I didn't see anything wrong at all.

"When I turned 14, I started to grow breasts . . . and that was kind of a shock to me."

Beatie decided to switch sexes when he was 24 - he had his breasts surgically altered - but opted to keep his reproductive organs.

"I wanted to have a child one day," he said. "I didn't know how, and I had no plan laid out. It was just a dream.

"I have a very stable male gender identity," he said. "I see pregnancy as a process. It doesn't define who I am."

Beatie said he was actually pregnant once before, about a year ago, but lost what could have been a "multiple pregnancy" due to complications.

After about a half-hour of chatting, Winfrey brought up the question everyone wanted answered.

"Let's get to the penis part," she said. "Did you have a penis implant?"

"No. Amazingly, hormones are an incredible thing," Beatie said, explaining that his intake of testosterone enlarged his sex organs.

"It looks like a small penis . . . and I can have intercourse with my wife."

Winfrey asked the couple why they decided to go public with their story.

"We felt it was best we tell our story instead of other people telling the story for us," said Nancy Beatie, who has two grown daughters from a previous marriage.

"If we have to, we'll go hide," she said when asked about being harassed. "It's something we knew could possibly happen."

Nancy Beatie, 45, said she didn't have any problem with Thomas getting pregnant.

"I can't have children . . . I had my womb removed," she said. "He does [have a womb], so this is the way we're going to do it."

But Thomas said that his family wasn't very supportive of his decision to get pregnant - and that one of his brothers was glad when his first pregnancy ended.

"My brother said it was a good thing that happened, that [the baby] could've been a monster," he said.

Beatie said he has a distant relationship with his father who he claims forced him into a modeling career when he was still a female.

"He's a very traditional man and growing up, he really wasn't around the house," he said.

"My mom was a huge influence on my life . . . when she committed suicide, I was 12 and my father had to learn to be a father.

"My father calls me intermittently . . . he still calls me by my former name," he said. "He calls me 'Tracy' and 'Mommy.'

"I believe he loves me, but he can't see me in that way - and that kinda hurts."

Beatie said he's writing a book, which he started when he was 17.

"Love makes a family," he said. "That's all that matters."

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Old 04-04-2008, 07:51 AM   #2
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My main concern with this is the growth of the baby...I don't know much about biology and whatnot, but I hope his body has the nutrients that the baby needs to grow properly inside the womb. I guess my main fear, with all the changes this person has gone through, is complications for the baby.

I could be completely wrong, if someone could enlighten me that'd be great.
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Old 04-04-2008, 06:29 PM   #3
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^ Im sure any such complications that may arise has been highlighted by doctors i guess.

"Love makes a family,", so true. It goes to same sex couples adopting kids also, love is all that is required.
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Old 04-04-2008, 07:33 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally posted by vaz02

"Love makes a family,", so true.


As for the physiological effects on the baby, that poses an interesting question. I'm sure it's entirely new and uncharted territory for the doctors.
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Old 04-04-2008, 08:10 PM   #5
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So who is the sperm donor? Was it in-vitro or did - could he have sex with another man?
Glad there's lots of love here. whatever
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Old 04-04-2008, 09:29 PM   #6
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What I don't get is that if he has enough female hormone to become and stay pregnant how can he have enough testosterone to keep that amount of facial hair.
I'm still not 100% convinced that it's not a hoax but good luck to them.
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Old 04-04-2008, 09:56 PM   #7
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Yeah, I'm not convinced it's not a hoax either. I'm even less convinced that 'he' can be classified as a male. It sounds like an utter failure of a sex change. Removing ones' booswahs a man does not make. Or something. I don't see them as anything but a lesbian couple with one partner missing a few parts and gaining a baby.


I'm confused.
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Old 04-04-2008, 10:41 PM   #8
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I guess it's interesting from the standpoint of someone who identifies as a male having a baby, but "parts"-wise it's a woman having a baby.
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Old 04-04-2008, 10:51 PM   #9
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So the collective liberal conscience of FYM finds itself confused and befuddled?
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Old 04-04-2008, 11:04 PM   #10
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Originally posted by financeguy
So the collective liberal conscience of FYM finds itself confused and befuddled?
Well what do conservatives want? Do they abort, allow same sex marriage, accept sex change, OMG what the hell do they do?

This precedent isn't in the Bible, will they know what to do?
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Old 04-04-2008, 11:08 PM   #11
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Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar


Well what do conservatives want? Do they abort, allow same sex marriage, accept sex change, OMG what the hell do they do?

This precedent isn't in the Bible, will they know what to do?
So conservatives base their entire thought process on the Bible??

At least read up on some basic conservative political philosophy before saying such silly things.

Still, thanks for weighing in.

I knew as soon as I mentioned the liberal conscience of FYM, that you'd be compelled to respond, like a magnet.
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Old 04-04-2008, 11:08 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally posted by indra
I guess it's interesting from the standpoint of someone who identifies as a male having a baby, but "parts"-wise it's a woman having a baby.
That's precisely the way I put it today when discussing it with someone.

Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar



This precedent isn't in the Bible, will they know what to do?
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Old 04-04-2008, 11:09 PM   #13
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On one hand it does seem like the leftist posters are of very mixed minds, on the other the one conservative that has posted is agnostic and doesn't justify the position on the bible; if we wanted to play mischaracterisation why not make some joke about this being the final barrier of discrimination against men?
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Old 04-04-2008, 11:10 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally posted by A_Wanderer
if we wanted to play mischaracterisation why not make some joke about this being the final barrier of discrimination against men?
Now, that is an interesting point.
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Old 04-04-2008, 11:14 PM   #15
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It's a no brainer. "He," for all intents and purposes, is genetically female. Since all the "lady parts" are there, this transgendered individual can get pregnant. Outward appearances mean nothing, in this case.

In terms of maintaining a pregnancy, stopping male hormone treatment will quite obviously mean a resumption of the dominance of female hormones. Quite simply put...

Sperm+egg+uterus+female hormones=viable pregnancy

Everything else is irrelevant here. As for pontificating on the usual hot button issues here, last I heard there's no license required to breed, and I'm pretty sure that these two parents will do a far better job than the plain-old heterosexual lunatics paraded daily on "Maury."

But like I said...no license required=no external validation or approval needed.
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Old 04-04-2008, 11:20 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally posted by financeguy


So conservatives base their entire thought process on the Bible??

At least read up on some basic conservative political philosophy before saying such silly things.

Still, thanks for weighing in.

I knew as soon as I mentioned the liberal conscience of FYM, that you'd be compelled to respond, like a magnet.
Oh come on, you have had to known that that comment had a little humor in it...

No, I don't think all conservatives base their entire thought process on the Bible.
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Old 04-04-2008, 11:35 PM   #17
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Originally posted by financeguy
At least read up on some basic conservative political philosophy before saying such silly things.
I'd be inclined to agree, except that philosophy of any ideology has been neglected for decades. It's a real shame too.
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Old 04-05-2008, 12:33 AM   #18
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Even if this particular case turns out to be a hoax, this has happened before: (female-to-male) transgender writer Patrick Califia's (female-to-male) partner gave birth in 1999.

In the US at least, requirements for obtaining *legal* sex reassignment (on one's birth certificate, etc.) vary from state-to-state, but I don't think any states actually require sex reassignment surgery. Most transgendered people, and many other people as well, would say Thomas Beatie is definitely a 'he' because that's how he identifies himself socially as well as personally; that surgically induced changes like his mastectomy and the hormonally induced changes to his voice, body hair, genitals and musculature are expressions of his gender, not the measure of it.

As far as why Beatie could still have a beard--the deepening of the voice, growth of facial and body hair, and genital changes that result when a genetic female takes androgens at such dosages are always irreversible, whereas musculature changes and the cessation of menstruation are reversible. I glanced at some information online about facial hair growth and I'm not sure I fully understood it, but the gist of it *seemed* to be that the sudden exposure to large amounts of testosterone through hormone therapy (or puberty, in normal genetic males) causes permanent changes in how hair follicle cells in that area process testosterone, such that even the small amounts of testosterone genetic females produce is sufficient to sustain beard growth from then on out, even if hormone therapy is stopped.
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Old 04-05-2008, 04:37 AM   #19
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I'd be inclined to agree, except that philosophy of any ideology has been neglected for decades. It's a real shame too.
very true.
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Old 04-05-2008, 07:58 AM   #20
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Originally posted by sue4u2
So who is the sperm donor? Was it in-vitro or did - could he have sex with another man?
They said they had artificial insemination. I know he is still a woman as far as this is concerned but the reaction of people to this situation still interests me.

What about women who can't breastfeed for whatever reason, they shouldn't have a baby either? That makes him, and them, selfish?


(AFP) April 4th

His unusual situation first became public when he wrote an article in the leading US gay magazine The Advocate last month, entitled "Labor of Love."

"To our neighbors, my wife, Nancy, and I don't appear in the least unusual," he wrote, explaining that his wife was unable to have a child after undergoing a hysterectomy and that they had conceived by artificial insemination.

"Our situation sparks legal, political, and social unknowns," Beatie wrote, adding the couple had experienced opposition from health care professionals, friends and family.

One doctor refused to treat the couple, after consulting an ethics board.

"How does it feel to be a pregnant man? Incredible. Despite the fact that my belly is growing with a new life inside me, I am stable and confident being the man that I am," Beatie wrote.

While some have come out in support of Beatie's right to bear a child, and decried the discrimination that Beatie and other transgender individuals are up against, others have been less supportive.

"Seriously, how selfish Beatie is. He is not able to breastfeed, guaranteed, which is the single, most important thing you can do for your child nutrition-wise," said one letter-writer in the Advocate.

"It's called 'childbirth' and it is a 'female' thing -- not a 'male' thing. Period," wrote another.

"If I choose to not have 'bottom' surgery and keep my original genitals intact, as far as I'm concerned I've chosen to simply present as male, not become a male," said the writer, identified as Alicia "Joey" Brite.

But Robert Haaland, a female-to-male activist, said he believed most Americans were comfortable with the idea of Beatie bearing a child.

"The Beatie pregnancy is simply the Beaties' way of using the reproductive choices that were available to them. Most Americans can understand that," he wrote in The Advocate.
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