Prayer

[coemgen]

Wow. Thanks for sharing that VertigoGal. I appreciate you posting that even though you're not sure about God.

I wouldn't call them stupid prayers either. I believe God hears them. How's your aunt btw?

You're right, you're not supposed to test God, but I don't think that's exactly what you're doing. To test him, you have to believe he exists. You're just wanting him to reveal himself, right?

Instead of asking him to do certain things to prove his existence, why don't you just ask him to simply reveal himself to you?

This may sound cheesy and you may not care, but I know God wants a relationship with ALL of us — certainly you — and I'll be praying for you and for him to reveal himself to you.

 

[VertigoGal]

Thanks coemgen...even though I don't necessarily share your beliefs, you've always made me feel very welcome.

I don't really know what I want as far as God revealing himself to me...I mean, of course I'd like to just believe in some loving, Big Brother-type God, but it's not that easy. I can't just make myself believe in something like that, and I'm somewhat confident that if I do someday come to believe in a god (which I won't rule out), it won't be in any Jesus, Adonai, Allah, etc. They seem too man-made to me, but that's me.

I think I'm just going to try to continue living my life as an agnostic, and if I ever come to change my beliefs or become drawn to a certain religion, then so be it.

my aunt is doing great! she was just down here with my cousin during Easter, meaning she can actually travel and fly, so that's great. she seemed really happy. in a lot of ways, I think this was sort of a blessing. she's completely stopped drinking and is in recovery (she had no choice really!), and that's better for everyone in her family. also, it's really brought my mom and her (who had been sort of estranged) a lot closer together, since my mom can relate & play "mentor" (relate to the drinking, not the aneurysm! lol)...so it's actually worked out great.

 

[learn2kneel]

I pray often, i've seen results also:

-- a couple of months ago I had lost my keys and was getting extremely fustrated and was even throwing stuff around, i had looked for about an hour and a half -- i then decided to calm myself down said a prayer, and within literally 5 minutes i found them and was on my way--

I think God is teaching us lessons all the time, even if it's in the little things that happen.

 

[U2DMfan]

an honest question.

how do you pray? I have prayed before obviously, just curious as to methods. Maybe I could do it better, at least differently.

more pointedly, if you believe that prayer worked for you, how did you go about it.

what I am getting at is, is this an inner dialgoue? Where you don't actually speak out the words and such? Do you need to meditate?

What works for you?

use Biblical quotes if you want that would be fine.

 

[U2DMfan]

double post*

 

[BonosSaint]

Perhaps God answers some people's prayers. He doesn't answer everyone's. One person finds a ruby ring; another person dies of starvation. I guess that starving person didn't have enough faith or his death fit some greater good in God's plan. Anecdotal evidence that prayer works for some people offers no comfort to the desperately unhappy whose prayers have never been answered.

 

[VertigoGal]

I pray often, i've seen results also:

-- a couple of months ago I had lost my keys and was getting extremely fustrated and was even throwing stuff around, i had looked for about an hour and a half -- i then decided to calm myself down said a prayer, and within literally 5 minutes i found them and was on my way--

I think God is teaching us lessons all the time, even if it's in the little things that happen.

With this kind of thing though, I sort of agree with Irvine's way of thinking...it seems most likely that God didn't actually find your keys, but that you found them because you'd calmed down and cleared your head.

 

[coemgen]

Hey U2DMFan, those are good question. There really isn't any specific way to pray. It's really just about talking to God and opening your heart. The heart is what God's after. However, there are things that are important when you pray.
I found some stuff in a book that explains it all with some verses since you requested them.

Prayer should be directed to God the Father. (Ephesians 5:20; Matthew 6:9; 1 Peter 1:17)
Prayer should be made in the name of Jesus Christ. (John 14:13 and 15:16)
The power for prayer is through the ministry of the Holy Spirit. (Ephesians 6:18) Prayer is never made to the Holy Spirit.

It is important to ask for forgiveness of sins when praying. Psalm 66:18 says "If I regard iniquity in my heart, the Lord will not hear me."
It's also good to thank God for blessings he's given you. You're letting him know that you appreciate his work in your life. (Ephisians 5:20) Then it's good to pray for others in your life. People you may know who are sick, going through financial trouble, whatever. (Ephesians 6:18) Then you can pray for your own needs. (Hebrews 4:16)

Also, it's good just to listen and be silent. That's an important part many people forget. I'm not saying you'll hear an audible voice thundering down or whatever, but sometimes, through the Holy Spirit dwelling within you, something may be on your mind or heart.
This, by the way, should never go against what the Bible says.

For me, I try to follow these things, but I try not to let it become formulaic, you know? It's really just about your heart. If you pray a formula, it doesn't mean anything. It's about your heart, which God looks at much more than any words you use.

There's also a verse, I'll try to find it after lunch here, that talks about not praying in public because you may look like your showing off, and not to babble and use a lot of big words trying to impress God. Like I said, he could care less what words you use, it's about your heart.

Hope that helps. Sorry about the rambling.

 

[the soul waits]

You're not rambling, as far as I'm concerned I love this thread.

 

[verte76]

Perhaps God answers some people's prayers. He doesn't answer everyone's. One person finds a ruby ring; another person dies of starvation. I guess that starving person didn't have enough faith or his death fit some greater good in God's plan. Anecdotal evidence that prayer works for some people offers no comfort to the desperately unhappy whose prayers have never been answered.

Oh, I have plenty of prayers that have never been answered. I think the thing that's happening here is that I'm not always accepting God's will for my life. The secret is waiting for God to act in my life according to His will and not mine.

 

[Irvine511]

Oh, I have plenty of prayers that have never been answered. I think the thing that's happening here is that I'm not always accepting God's will for my life. The secret is waiting for God to act in my life according to His will and not mine.

other than through faith, can you objectively prove that God has intervened?

i suppose i don't like the idea of "God's will" -- if i break my neck and am paralyzed, did God want that to happen to me? how awful of him. i know that i can then turn around and choose to take my paralysis and use it for good in many different ways, but i'd like to think of that as my own self-empowerment rather than God planning to have me break my neck in order to teach me such self-empowerment tools.

does that make sense?

i also want to quickly say that i pose these as very honest questions an i mean, in no way, to belittle anyone's belief in the efficacy of prayer or the role that prayer plays in their life.

i'm truly curious and posing questions out my passionate agnosticism -- that is to say that i don't know if God exists, and i'm skeptical of everything, but i'm also open to anything.

 

[MrsSpringsteen]

not everything can be objectively proven my friend and I happen to think God is all about self-empowerment.

 

[Irvine511]

i agree.

but can we agree that it is a choice to believe in God and the efficacy of prayer?

 

[U2DMfan]

coemgen, thanks for your reply, that's basically what I was looking for.

 

[coemgen]

No problem U2DMfan.

Irvine — I'll be honest, and this is just my spur of the moment opinion, but I don't know if you can objectively prove God working in our lives. Think about it — you're trying to prove the work of a being that surpasses all human understanding and exists outside of this world and in it. It's GOD, you know? Maybe somebody disagrees with me and I'm totally open to hearing their perspective.

I guess the thing for me is just not only the number of prayers that have been answered for me, but how specific they are.

My wife and I were living with my parents after we got pregnant and it was really tough on everybody. We prayed constantly about finding a place to live and being able to afford it. We just didn't have enough to cover rent along with all our bills together because a job opportunity my wife was pursuing fell through. We kept praying for God to just help us out in whatever way he could. The next time we went to church, our pastor pulled us aside after service and asked about our living situation and how things were going with that and why we hadn't gotten a place yet. (Keep in mind we hadn't told anyone about our situation — we were too embarrased and prideful.) We told him everything and he then said the church could cover our rent for three months. He knew it was important for us to get out of my parents house and for us to start our marriage out with just the two of us.

That's just one example of many. I'm sure one could always say "It's just a coincidence," or "You're just looking into it too much," and deny God working in your life, but what if there really is a God and he really is working in your life?

If it is just coincidence, then the worst thing is that you're "creating God." If it isn't and you deny it, then the worst thing is you're denying a personal relationship with God and reducing the value of his blessings.

 

[MrsSpringsteen]

but can we agree that it is a choice to believe in God and the efficacy of prayer?

Yes I'd say that's true. But I don't think that choice is set in stone - one never knows what can happen in one's life . I don't question anyone's choice in a personal matter like that. It's just tough for me to intellectualize this subject, I approach it from my heart and from a deeper place than heart or head. But I also understand and respect the way you and others approach it.

 

[nbcrusader]

but can we agree that it is a choice to believe in God and the efficacy of prayer?

Yes, for now.


Romans 14:11

 

[Irvine511]

i suppose that the notion of choice is all i'm really getting at. i respect all those who pray and i respect all those who see God working in their lives and leading them to the answers, or non-answers, to their prayers. if you believe it to be true, then it is true, for you. what this is linked to, for me, is the way in which some people (no one in this thread, i mean this as a very general statement) assert that "this is what God is saying" or that "all God wants is ..." and assume to know the will of the unknowable simply because they pray. like Mrs. Springsteen says, things like prayer come from deeper places than the mind or even the heart, but as such, and due to their intensely personal and, yes, relativistic nature, to assume that there is one way to do things, one way to pray, one way to understand God, one way to receive God, one way to be a Christian or even a person of faith, is almost by definition flawed?

i suppose all i'm trying to say is that i'm moved by the intensely personal responses to prayer that people here have shared. no two people understand God, and how God works in their lives, in the same way. and this affirms my belief that religion/God is a personal experience -- it cannot form the basis of legislation, government, or organization due to it's very subjective nature.

and it also might start to provide a window for someone like me to eventually find his way back to what i understand to be God.

 

[U2Girl1978]

Once in a while I will pray but unfortunately I feel that it doesn't work. I have this feeling of bitterness at times.

 

[the soul waits]

i suppose that the notion of choice is all i'm really getting at. i respect all those who pray and i respect all those who see God working in their lives and leading them to the answers, or non-answers, to their prayers. if you believe it to be true, then it is true, for you. what this is linked to, for me, is the way in which some people (no one in this thread, i mean this as a very general statement) assert that "this is what God is saying" or that "all God wants is ..." and assume to know the will of the unknowable simply because they pray. like Mrs. Springsteen says, things like prayer come from deeper places than the mind or even the heart, but as such, and due to their intensely personal and, yes, relativistic nature, to assume that there is one way to do things, one way to pray, one way to understand God, one way to receive God, one way to be a Christian or even a person of faith, is almost by definition flawed?

i suppose all i'm trying to say is that i'm moved by the intensely personal responses to prayer that people here have shared. no two people understand God, and how God works in their lives, in the same way. and this affirms my belief that religion/God is a personal experience -- it cannot form the basis of legislation, government, or organization due to it's very subjective nature.

and it also might start to provide a window for someone like me to eventually find his way back to what i understand to be God.

But Irvine, noone here has stated that there is one way to pray, one way to receive God, etc..it is a very personal thing, I do think we all agree on this one.

 

[Irvine511]

But Irvine, noone here has stated that there is one way to pray, one way to receive God, etc..it is a very personal thing, I do think we all agree on this one.

as i said in the post, "no one in this thread."

i'm trying very hard to differentiate between what i see here, and what i hear out in the media and on my television screen. i'm taking these examples, and extrapolating to make a larger point.

if i haven't expressed myself well, i apologize.

 

[coemgen]

Irvine, I have to say I appreciate your comments because it's helped me understand the perspective you kind of represent. I know something like prayer is maybe hard to wrap your mind around for those who may not pray often or ever. I also appreciate the respect you've shown in asking some of us questions. You're the coolest.

I just wanted to say that you can actually know the will of God and what God wants. Again, I know this may sound a bit out there, but it's true. That's partly why he wants a personal relationship with us, so he can share his will for our lives and, therefore, we can live our lives as he intended us to and get the most out of them.

For all of us on a general level, we can know God's will through his word. The Bible guides us as a whole on the basics of his will. As I'm sure you know, it's full of commands, advice and wisdom shared through personal stories, parables, letters and many other things.
As far as God's will for our individual lives, he can reveal that to us through prayer and again, reading his word. There's been many times when I read the Bible in the morning I just kind of flip through after I pray and I find verses that actually answer questions I asked God in my prayer. I know that sounds like a bunch of nut-filled crap and I'm just reading into it too much, but it's true. Some are pretty specific verses. Then sometimes I just feel convicted to do something or say something to someone. That's the work of the Holy Spirit, a.k.a. God. I know you probably wince when you hear people talk about God "talking" to them, and you should, I guess. Some people are full of crap and they say that to give them authority (and yes, there are "Christians" who do this.) However, it is still possible and real to many others, and available to all who accept Christ and seek God.

Also, you're right — God does want an individual relationship with us. You said realizing this "might start to provide a window for someone like me to eventually find his way back to what I understand to be God."

I sincerely hope so, man. It's the greatest thing ever.

 

[Techie2000]

Well it depends on if you mean "prey" or prey. If you mean recite an actual prayer (hail mary or whatever) it was probably a year or two ago since I've done that at a funeral. If you mean "prey" as in some sort of sincere attempt to communicate with God, haven't done in it since age 9. The conversations were very one sided, like talking to a person in a coma whom you can't see. Though being born a catholic, if I recall correctly God can only talk to the priests, not to me. Not that that part matters really since I've been an atheist since about third grade...

 

[the soul waits]

as i said in the post, "no one in this thread."

i'm trying very hard to differentiate between what i see here, and what i hear out in the media and on my television screen. i'm taking these examples, and extrapolating to make a larger point.

if i haven't expressed myself well, i apologize.

I'm so sorry, I should have read your post with more attention, Irvine. My bad.

 

[Irvine511]

no worries at all.

lots to think about.

i suppose i'm hungry for what i call authenticity, and i don't know how or what would be an authentic encounter with God, especially since i trust my own senses and rationality so much -- unless there was some kind of revelatory experience, i feel fairly confident that i could explain any event in my life not as God's will or God's interaction but as a rational series of events.

but that's just me. i know others are different, and while i might view their recounting of their experiences with skepticism, i would never assume that they're wrong or whatever. i would just think that it's an experience different from my own, but just as real.

as for myself ... with all that's gone on in my life, and the world, these past few years, rational explanations for events and circumstance make much more sense, to me, than do divine interpretations.

and i have such an aversion to rules, heirarchy, and "correct" ways of knowing and understanding. i can't stand it when people claim to speak for God, to to know -- without hesitation or questioning -- what the Bible "says."

my big point is that, due to the very personal, subjective nature of how faith and God manifest themselves in the life of the person of faith, how could we ever claim to know what is best for other people, i.e. that we all should be one particular kind of Christian, or even Christian at all?

that's all i'm trying to say. that these stories of faith and prayer simply support my distaste for fundamentalist, literal understandings of any and all religions.

but they give creedence to the idea of God. again, for me.

 

[martha]

my big point is that, due to the very personal, subjective nature of how faith and God manifest themselves in the life of the person of faith, how could we ever claim to know what is best for other people, i.e. that we all should be one particular kind of Christian, or even Christian at all?

that's all i'm trying to say. that these stories of faith and prayer simply support my distaste for fundamentalist, literal understandings of any and all religions.

but they give creedence to the idea of God. again, for me.

A little more for you to consider: You've already thought of this, but let me remind you that a deep, personal, and very satisfying and meaningful relationship with God does not have to be based on Christianity at all.

At all.

 

[AcrobatMan]

I'm just wondering what people here think of prayer. Do you pray? How often?

NOt more than thrice a year..thats for sure

What about?

Well asking something for someone or myself.. Its like asking from the creator of the universe..some help or something like that...sometimes..to thank Him for something He has done.

Some of the times I pray only to give others company.

Do you think it works? What if nobody prayed?

I dont think it works unless it is backed by effort . In that case whether prayer helped or effort help...the results are always inconclusive.

Nothing will happen if no one prayed...it will save million of man hours per day


Sometimes I pray to Goddess of Wealth for some luck in stock market

 

[Irvine511]

A little more for you to consider: You've already thought of this, but let me remind you that a deep, personal, and very satisfying and meaningful relationship with God does not have to be based on Christianity at all.

At all.

good points, agreed.

perhaps i do pay too much attention to assertions that "the only way to God is through Christ."

 

[verte76]

A little more for you to consider: You've already thought of this, but let me remind you that a deep, personal, and very satisfying and meaningful relationship with God does not have to be based on Christianity at all.

At all.

My own younger sister believes in God but she's not a Christian.

 

[Tinybubbles]

Hi, I am getting to this thread late, but have really enjoyed it.
Has anyone seen the movie "What the bleep do we know?" It has so much to do with this thread I want to write all about it here, but really what you should do is go rent it. A bunch of quantum physics people talking about the nature of god and how we create our realities-all based on science... and it supports the concept of prayer/meditation and god...
As for me, yes I pray. Part of my daily meditation is to pray. Although I do alot of informal prayer (chatter, and sometimes bitching, to the Goddess) I say a simple one every morning which is :
"Who is this flower before me and what is the work of this god? I would know myself in all my parts."
It is part of a poem by victor anderson, and widely used as a morning prayer in my tradition. I really like it as the start for my day...
Coemgen, although we practice different religions, I think we have more in common than I realized after reading this thread! That is a heartening thing to know!