Poll: Is George W. Bush becoming unpopular????????????

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Danospano said:
What happened to the "Anti-Bush"/"Pro-Bush" idea?

This whole thread has been hijacked!!!!!

So far I've seen about a dozen true responses, yet nearly 60 replies! I was mislead into reading all of the responses!?! Damn it!!! :)

We stole your thread!! :lol: I was just wondering what it'd be like if a smarter Republican was in the White House. I'm afraid one thing I dislike about Bush is his mediocre intelligence.
 
i dont think mr bush is concerned as much about his minute by minute popularity rating then as concerned about making the world a safer place.

diamond
 
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re: making the world a safer place

bush_ducttape.jpg
 
`Bullying' Bush hard to stomach for some
Friends, enemies alike see Bush as arrogant Even allies telling president to tone down the rhetoric



WASHINGTON?Why can't President George W. Bush seem to win friends and influence people these days?

Is he a bully at the head of an imperial presidency?

Or a no-holds-barred, straight-shootin' Texan whose friends ? including Canada's Jean Chr?tien and Mexico's Vicente Fox ? just don't like how he's talking about Iraq?

A debate over the president's style, long simmering in anti-war capitals, finally has erupted in Washington. Friends, enemies and pundits alike are weighing in, as Bush seems to plow headlong to war, with fewer allies and greater setbacks.

What really appears to irritate is that he does it so grandly, without apology.

It's one thing for leading anti-war advocate Nelson Mandela to call Bush "arrogant," as the former South African president did so recently in Johannesburg.

Now it's coming from senior Republicans on Capitol Hill.

"The responsibility of leadership is to persuade, not to impugn the motives of those who disagree with you," senior Republican Senator Charles Hagel of Nebraska told congressional hearings last week.

"(The administration) is seen as bullying people. You can't do that to democracies. You can't do that to partners and allies. It isn't going to work."

The Bush administration is smarting from Turkey's refusal to allow U.S. troops to invade Iraq from its soil. And, at the U.N., key Security Council members remain opposed to the U.S. arm-twisting push for a clear declaration of war against Iraq's Saddam Hussein.

Even Bush's "coalition of the willing" is frayed. Last week, Spain's Jose Maria Aznar, who is a staunch ally of Bush, was practically on his knees begging Bush to tone down the war rhetoric in Europe.

At heart, though, is a simple question. What does style matter? If Bush walked more softly, would he have more countries onside for war?

No, says Allan Lichtman, professor emeritus of history at American University in Washington.

"With Bush, what you see is what you get," he told the Star. "But even a more toned-down style would not change recalcitrant nations because there is a fundamental difference of substance and culture."

Stephen Hess, a senior fellow at the Brookings Institution, a Washington think-tank, agrees.

"These are serious representatives of their countries. It's not some private club. They have likes and dislikes, of course, but it doesn't affect the bottom line," he said last night.

Political analyst Lewis Wolfson thinks Bush's "Texas style is one Americans are not used to in the presidency.

"But I think that anyone in politics has to sort of tone things down at certain moments. I don't think that's out of the question," he added.

It's not as if Bush has made a secret of his beliefs.

"You've probably learned by now I don't believe there are many shades of gray in this war," he said last year.

"You're either with us or against us.

"You're either evil, or you're good."

Still, Bush's friends are symbolically tearing their hair out.

Chr?tien is trying to broker a U.N. compromise that would give Iraq more time to disarm. In Mexico City Saturday, he appeared impatient with the latest White House insistence that there must be "regime change" as well as disarmament in Iraq.

Former Chr?tien press secretary Peter Donolo said the Turkish vote shows the limitations of "megaphone diplomacy."

"But I can see Bush's frustration," he added.

"He's getting tired of (Saddam's) excuses. I wouldn't want to be in his shoes right now. The trend lines seem to be moving away from him, and I'm sure he's exasperated."

Maybe so. But tone it down, Aznar told Bush last week.

"I did tell the president that we need a lot of Powell and not much of Rumsfeld," said Aznar, referring to Secretary of State Colin Powell and Defence Secretary Donald Rumsfeld.

Rumsfeld has Europeans ? especially Security Council opponents France and Germany ? fuming over his remarks that characterized France and Germany as part of an "old Europe" out of sync with the rest of the European Union and NATO.

"The more Powell speaks and the less Rumsfeld speaks, that wouldn't be a bad thing altogether," said Aznar.

And, in the coup de gr?ce of public criticism, even George H.W. Bush, the 41st president of the United States, last week gave his son's foreign policy a subtle kick.

In a speech at Tufts University, the senior Bush talked about the "unprecedented international coalition" he built before attacking Iraq in the 1991 Persian Gulf war.

That coalition does not exist today. But, according to the New York Times, the elder Bush said it was "totally false" to accuse his son of wanting to "go it alone, rush to war" with Iraq.

It was easier to build a coalition back then, he said, in what the Times described as a "nuanced" answer.

"The objective was clearer."

In diplo-speak, that's pretty potent language.
 
here's the deal.:angry:

presently some ridicule GW.
he still has more friends than not.

hes a principled man not caught up in the 'poll of the moment'..

that said my interpretation is that by his actions he is leading..as he was elected to do:up:
he was not elected to worry about his popularity day to day.

thru out history real leaders have led even when it wasnt the popular mindset in the present time.

what is needed my the more intellegent members is perspective, not knee jerk reactions to latest bleep by a disgruntled lukewarm allies..

Diamond
:)
 
For what it's worth my academic background is in history. We historians have a saying that "time is the least subjective of judges". Perhaps we'll be judging Bush more objectively in years to come. Whether or not he gets re-elected next year he will eventually leave office. Then let's see what the opinions are. Right now we are going on the information we have from the media. I have my opinion based on this, and everyone else has theirs.
 
verte76 said:
For what it's worth my academic background is in history. We historians have a saying that "time is the least subjective of judges". Perhaps we'll be judging Bush more objectively in years to come. Whether or not he gets re-elected next year he will eventually leave office. Then let's see what the opinions are. Right now we are going on the information we have from the media. I have my opinion based on this, and everyone else has theirs.

I agree w/ you. As a student majoring in history, time is the ultimate judge here. Time gives you more avenues to explore the different angles & rasmifications of an individuals or groups actions.
 
Klaus said:
joyfulgirl: *rotfl*

verte76: well if you go back in time you allways get the "winners history" - so i don't think it's biased.
Why not take the informations you can get (not only the ones you like) and make up your own mind?

Klaus
hmmm, well certainly popular history is wriiten by the winners, but historians look for the truth by looking at other historys. "Social History" I guess would be a way of discribing it. Looking at the totality of the subject rather than just a small part.
 
Did anyone catch the Whitehouse press briefing today? Somebody asked Ari a question about one of the probably appointees to the intermediate board, gov't, or whatever for Iraq. I only heard a little, but it was someone with some kind of Israeli ties and them not being appropriate for an Arab nation. The answer was - Noone has been appointed at this time.
Any help appreciated.
Thanks.
 
Adding to the discussion of how history treats political leaders: If historians explore both sides of the story, we must assume that you (Zooropa) said this because the average person will not explore the details from both perspectives. Right?

This being said I think that while intellectuals may delve deeper into the knowledge tree, the average American or whoever will read the mass-marketed textbooks that reflect a rosey painting of all its leaders from the past. How often do we hear about the scandals and crimes of Andrew Jackson, Andrew Johnson, Lyndon Johnson, Nixon, etc. We may know bits of their unglorious past, but if you look at what the high schools are teaching there is an absence of dirt.

I think Bushie will be remembered as the guy who was president when the two tower fell and the guy who furter postponed important decisions dealing with the environment, the stocks and exchange regulation, and the issue of world poverty.

His legacy will be honored by some idiots, but his record is his true legacy. What has he done for America? What has he done for the rest of human civilization?

Can anyone name 5 major decisions this administration has made that has propelled our democratic freedoms? Our civil liberties? Our pursute of life and liberty?

Oh, and by the way....I'm still Anti-Bush.... :sexywink:
 
yes
danno to many here u are still mistaken now and will b a hundred yrs from now;)

diamond:wave:
 
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a broken clock is gives coreect information twice every 24 hours

diamond said:
here's the deal.:angry:

presently some ridicule GW.

he was not elected




Diamond
:)

between the lines, db9 sneeks in the truth.:sexywink:
 
slick.
nice edit.
db9

reminds me of the selective process of the liberal news reprting methods..:dance:
 
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Danospano said:
Adding to the discussion of how history treats political leaders: If historians explore both sides of the story, we must assume that you (Zooropa) said this because the average person will not explore the details from both perspectives. Right?

This being said I think that while intellectuals may delve deeper into the knowledge tree, the average American or whoever will read the mass-marketed textbooks that reflect a rosey painting of all its leaders from the past. How often do we hear about the scandals and crimes of Andrew Jackson, Andrew Johnson, Lyndon Johnson, Nixon, etc. We may know bits of their unglorious past, but if you look at what the high schools are teaching there is an absence of dirt.

I think Bushie will be remembered as the guy who was president when the two tower fell and the guy who furter postponed important decisions dealing with the environment, the stocks and exchange regulation, and the issue of world poverty.

His legacy will be honored by some idiots, but his record is his true legacy. What has he done for America? What has he done for the rest of human civilization?

Can anyone name 5 major decisions this administration has made that has propelled our democratic freedoms? Our civil liberties? Our pursute of life and liberty?

Oh, and by the way....I'm still Anti-Bush.... :sexywink:

The average person doesn't always have the time to look at both sides, and many instances, they don't want to/need to etc.

It is also difficult to separate the political actions of a historical figure from his personal actions. Some don't care to.

I think it's hard to judge Bush completely because his administration is only 3 years old. His impact on America may be profound, or negligable. Here is why the "time" arguement is valuable. As for your specific questions, if he is succesful, the world will be safer, Democracy will come to the Middle East, Schools will become more efficient, same with healthcare.
On the flip side, are environment may not benefit, the Middle East may become more unstable etc. But these are things that we will only see down the road.

Something on Civil Liberties...
Life, Liberty and the pursute of happiness.
Notice that LIFE, comes first. If the government has to invade our privacy to protect our lives, I'll take the hit. W/O life, there is no liberty, or happiness. :sexywink:
 
Zooropa said:
Something on Civil Liberties...
Life, Liberty and the pursute of happiness.
Notice that LIFE, comes first. If the government has to invade our privacy to protect our lives, I'll take the hit. W/O life, there is no liberty, or happiness. :sexywink:

Note that it says "AND." In logic, the word "AND" says that all elements must be together, otherwise the entire statement is false.

Without liberty and/or happiness, there is no "life."

Melon
 
melon said:


Note that it says "AND." In logic, the word "AND" says that all elements must be together, otherwise the entire statement is false.

Without liberty and/or happiness, there is no "life."

Melon

You can have life w/o liberty and happiness.
w/o life, you can't have liberty and/or happiness because you're, err, mmm, dead....
If you want to define life in a qualitative way, that's different, but I don't believe that that is how the word life is used in "Life, liberty and the persuit of happiness."

:sexywink:
 
Zooropa said:


You can have life w/o liberty and happiness.
w/o life, you can't have liberty and/or happiness because you're, err, mmm, dead....
If you want to define life in a qualitative way, that's different, but I don't believe that that is how the word life is used in "Life, liberty and the persuit of happiness."

:sexywink:

Considering the secular Enlightenment philosophy of the Founding Fathers and some of their comments, especially Benjamin Franklin ("Those who would sacrifice Liberty for security are deserving of neither") and their cynical view of government, I tend to think that I'm right on this. :sexywink:

Melon
 
melon said:


Considering the secular Enlightenment philosophy of the Founding Fathers and some of their comments, especially Benjamin Franklin ("Those who would sacrifice Liberty for security are deserving of neither") and their cynical view of government, I tend to think that I'm right on this. :sexywink:

Melon

Classic Liberal Theory believes that the government should only exists to protect it's citizens. There is a contract between the government and it's people. Upon agreeing to this contract, the individual is aware that he will sacrifice a small amount of his liberty in order for the government to protect him/her.

I tend to think I'm right on this...:sexywink:
 
Klaus said:
verte76: well if you go back in time you allways get the "winners history" - so i don't think it's biased.
Why not take the informations you can get (not only the ones you like) and make up your own mind?

Klaus


I do have an opinion. It's no secret that Bush is even pissing off allies. The Arabs are against a war in Iraq. The press has been quoting Rumsfeld as claiming that the Arabs want a war in Iraq. Huh? The news about the Arab opinion came out of reliable sources reporting on a summit held by Arabic powers to handle the Iraq crisis. Like I said before, I am anti-Bush. I don't like his arrogance, and I don't like this pro-war stuff of his. Rumsfeld is a :censored:. I'm just saying that in the future some stuff may come out that we don't know about right now. Maybe some aide will write memoirs of the Bush White House in ten years and spill some previously untouched beans. That doesn't erase the fact that Bush is pissing off allies right and left. I work in a library and people are still writing books about the Reagan administration. The more time goes on, the more complete the knowledge is about any and all public figures.
 
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Sidenote: I love that people are begining to call Dubya and Rumsfeld :censored: 's and mother-:censored: 's and pieces-of-dog-:censored: . It's about :censored: time!!!!!!!!

Oh yeah....and here's a :sexywink: for diamond :)
 
Zooropa said:


Classic Liberal Theory believes that the government should only exists to protect it's citizens. There is a contract between the government and it's people. Upon agreeing to this contract, the individual is aware that he will sacrifice a small amount of his liberty in order for the government to protect him/her.

I tend to think I'm right on this...:sexywink:

I don't think what Bush is doing is sacrificing a "small amount" of liberty. The Patriot Act of 2001 authorizes domestic espionage and secret trials. I don't think that is what classical liberals envisioned, particularly since they revolted against imperial kingdoms that did both. :sexywink:

Melon
 
bush is a cool cat under pressure.
as true artists and true leaders do..
he
will
not
sell
out.

thank u
diamond
 
verte76 said:



I do have an opinion. It's no secret that Bush is even pissing off allies. The Arabs are against a war in Iraq. The press has been quoting Rumsfeld as claiming that the Arabs want a war in Iraq. Huh? The news about the Arab opinion came out of reliable sources reporting on a summit held by Arabic powers to handle the Iraq crisis.

I just want to jump in here. Arab governements in public have not always stated publicly what they are saying privately.

This may or may not be different than any governement, but it is particularly true, for them, that they make public statements to appease their populations, and then say another thing in private.

Peace
 
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