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Old 02-08-2002, 05:21 AM   #21
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Against. I'm not against death penalty as an idea, I just think that it is better that a thousand deserving criminals stay unexecuted rather than one innocent person be executed by mistake.
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Old 02-08-2002, 05:38 AM   #22
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Against - same as Saracene
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Old 02-08-2002, 05:58 AM   #23
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How you deal with the outcast of society tells your more about the society than anything else...

Thanks Lord, I'm living in a part of the word where death penalty was abolished decades ago...and may the Lord show mercy on those who believe death penalty is one of the best way to solve problems. It never has and it never will...And no, in this case I've no respect for those, who think otherwise. It's too serious a matter. So flame me, kill me (?), whatever...

So you guessed it: Very much against...

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Old 02-08-2002, 11:08 AM   #24
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Ideally, I'm for it.
Practically, I'm against it.
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Old 02-08-2002, 11:16 AM   #25
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I'd rather use torture as a justice method
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Old 02-08-2002, 12:16 PM   #26
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Old 02-08-2002, 12:29 PM   #27
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Originally posted by ~unforgettableFOXfire~:

Could I perhaps ask for some financial numbers here, since youre telling me its cheaper to pay for food, maintenence, medical needs for a patience over the course of 25-50 years then it is to take one round of live ammunition and execute them.
The main reason it costs more is because of the additional costs of trying someone if the prosecutor is seeking the death penalty. Also, there are additional costs when an individual appeals against a death sentence, and obviously it would be completely wrong to deprive someone of a fair trial or appeal in order to save money.

This is part of an article taken from the ACLU's website:

CAPITAL PUNISHMENT COSTS MORE THAN INCARCERATION
It is sometimes suggested that abolishing capital punishment is unfair to the taxpayer, on the assumption that life imprisonment is more expensive than execution. If one takes into account all the relevant costs, however, just the reverse is true. "The death penalty is not now, nor has it ever been, a more economical alternative to life imprisonment."56 A murder trial normally takes much longer when the death penalty is at issue than when it is not. Litigation costs – including the time of judges, prosecutors, public defenders, and court reporters, and the high costs of briefs – are mostly borne by the taxpayer. A 1982 study showed that were the death penalty to be reintroduced in New York, the cost of the capital trial alone would be more than double the cost of a life term in prison.57

In Maryland, a comparison of capital trial costs with and without the death penalty for the years 1979-1984 concluded that a death penalty case costs "approximately 42 percent more than a case resulting in a non-death sentence."58 In 1988 and 1989 the Kansas legislature voted against reinstating the death penalty after it was informed that reintroduction would involve a first-year cost of "more than $11 million."59 Florida, with one of the nation's most populous death rows, has estimated that the true cost of each execution is approximately $3.2 million, or approximately six times the cost of a life-imprisonment sentence."60

A 1993 study of the costs of North Carolina's capital punishment system revealed that litigating a murder case from start to finish adds an extra $163,000 to what it would cost the state to keep the convicted offender in prison for 20 years. The extra cost goes up to $216,000 per case when all first-degree murder trials and their appeals are considered, many of which do not end with a death sentence and an execution.61

From one end of the country to the other public officials decry the additional cost of capital cases even when they support the death penalty system. "Wherever the death penalty is in place, it siphons off resources which could be going to the front line in the war against crime…. Politicians could address this crisis, but, for the most part they either endorse executions or remain silent."62 The only way to make the death penalty more "cost effective" than imprisonment is to weaken due process and curtail appellate review, which are the defendant's (and society's) only protection against the most aberrant miscarriages of justice. Any savings in dollars would, of course, be at the cost of justice: In nearly half of the death-penalty cases given review under federal habeas corpus provisions, the murder conviction or death sentence was overturned.63

In 1996, in response to public clamor for accelerating executions, Congress imposed severe restrictions on access to federal habeas corpus64 and also ended all funding of the regional death penalty "resource centers" charged with providing counsel on appeal in the federal courts.65 These restrictions virtually guarantee that the number and variety of wrongful murder convictions and death sentences will increase. The savings in time and money will prove to be illusory.

Youn can find the rest of the article and the references at this site: http://www.aclu.org/library/case_against_death.html

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Old 02-08-2002, 01:15 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally posted by FizzingWhizzbees:
CAPITAL PUNISHMENT COSTS MORE THAN INCARCERATION
Fair enough.
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Old 02-08-2002, 01:58 PM   #29
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Thanks Fizzy.

I only took into account the result, rather than the process to get there -> laywers are paid too much imho, but I suppose thats where the extra costs come in, since trials are quite pricey. The more you know. Once again beauracratic red tape has screwed me over lol
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Old 02-08-2002, 05:18 PM   #30
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Against

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Old 02-08-2002, 07:32 PM   #31
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Old 02-08-2002, 09:46 PM   #32
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Old 02-08-2002, 10:26 PM   #33
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http://forum.interference.com/u2feed...ML/001701.html

'nuff said.

Kill the cunt.

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Old 02-08-2002, 10:37 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally posted by ~unforgettableFOXfire~:
Thanks Fizzy.

I only took into account the result, rather than the process to get there -> laywers are paid too much imho, but I suppose thats where the extra costs come in, since trials are quite pricey. The more you know. Once again beauracratic red tape has screwed me over lol
But that's exactly it.

Executing someone doesn't cost more than keeping them alive in prison for the remainder of their days.

The bullshit appeals sure do though.

In some (many) cases I believe this is more an indictment of the judicial system than it is a good argument against capital punishment. But I waver.
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Old 02-09-2002, 11:33 AM   #35
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Absolutely, resolutely against. For a number of reasons. Here are a couple of good examples:
<A HREF="http://www.dnai.com/~mwood/deathpen.html" TARGET=_blank>http://www.dnai.com/~mwood/deathpen.html

</A> http://www.psv.com/death.html

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[This message has been edited by Crzy4Bono (edited 02-09-2002).]
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Old 02-09-2002, 12:01 PM   #36
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Cheaper to let them live. AND they suffer so much more! So if it's a penalty you want them to pay, let them live. Military tribunals should however, keep capital punishment. *prepares to take many hits from flying objects*

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Old 02-11-2002, 11:08 AM   #37
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Against. Mainly because of the irreversibility issue, but also because I consider lifelong imprisonment a worse punishment.
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Old 02-11-2002, 04:18 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally posted by RufusYoungblood:
http://forum.interference.com/u2feed...ML/001701.html

'nuff said.

Kill the cunt.

OMG I just read that, Rufus.
I just can't believe those kind of things. But sadly, they do happen and all the time, everywhere.
I'd rather see that motherfucker bastard being raped and tortured to death instead of just 'losing his life' without any physical pain

That son of a bitch In fact, I'm that raging that I'd cut his balls with a knife. Honest



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Old 02-11-2002, 08:33 PM   #39
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Against it. If I said I was "pro-life" and then stated I was for the "death penalty," I would be a major hypocrite.

As for those who are obvious threats to society, nothing suits them better than rotting away in prison forever with no chance for parole. I don't buy the usual crap argument that prison is just an easy ride. If that's the case, then why are most reasonable people scared of it?

Besides, the last thing we need is martyrdom. I'm always reminded of V.I. Lenin's older brother, who was executed for plotting against the tsar. Not only did such a situation profoundly anger him, it was his motivation to start the communist revolution and the Soviet Union over thirty years later. We would like to think that by executing someone, we are simply disposing of that person forever. That may be the case, but that person does have loved ones, and it is selfish to take that person away from their family. It is certainly not going to erase what crime he/she perpetrated. Like I said, let them rot in prison without parole. Seems like more than a fit punishment.

Melon

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Old 02-11-2002, 08:37 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally posted by MSU2mike:
The bullshit appeals sure do though.
I find it funny how people value the beauty of our American system, and, when it is working, somehow we trash it. Appeals were put in place to ensure that judges would not be biased and to ensure that the due process of the law would be assured. This is of utmost importance when a person's life is at stake. "Justice" should not be equated with "guilt." Whatever happened to "innocent before proven guilty"?

Melon

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"He had lived through an age when men and women with energy and ruthlessness but without much ability or persistence excelled. And even though most of them had gone under, their ignorance had confused Roy, making him wonder whether the things he had striven to learn, and thought of as 'culture,' were irrelevant. Everything was supposed to be the same: commercials, Beethoven's late quartets, pop records, shopfronts, Freud, multi-coloured hair. Greatness, comparison, value, depth: gone, gone, gone. Anything could give some pleasure; he saw that. But not everything provided the sustenance of a deeper understanding." - Hanif Kureishi, Love in a Blue Time
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