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Old 07-18-2002, 04:33 PM   #81
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Quote:
Originally posted by Achtung Bubba

But let's say that the average American thinks of the Judeo-Christian Jehovah - the triune God (Father, Son, and Holy Ghost).
If the government was only offering the "bare-bones" essentials as their concept of God (and I believe that's what it is doing), what does it matter if the average American adds to that image?
Um, technically, the Judeo-Christian God ceases to be that, once you mention any sense of a trinity involving Jesus.

Since the Jews don't believe that Jesus was God or the Son of God, they're probably not going to say that Jehovah and the triune God are the same thing.
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Old 07-18-2002, 06:10 PM   #82
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Certainly, from the perspective of many Jews (thoughs who have followed Jesus - some have), Jesus was not God / the Son of God.

So, the Jews believe that God of Abraham had nothing to do with Jesus of Nazareth.

BUT Christians believe that Jesus IS the Son of the God of Abraham. This isn't just patronizing Judaism (the way Islam patronizes Christianity, saying that Jesus was merely a prophet); it is a full embracing of Judaism, the belief that Christ fulfills the law of Moses and the prophecy of the Isaiah and others.

And, either way, Judaism alone does not rule out the Trinity; one could say that Jesus wasn't the Messiah but still believe that the true Messiah would be an incarnation of God Himself.

Further, the Old Testament does speak about the Holy Spirit. It could be said that the Bible suggests a trinity as early as Genesis, chapter 1 verse 2.

Ultimately, this is nit-picking that misses the entire point of what I was saying. I DO see your point, but I'm not necessarily off-base, either, and the entire argument is a digression.
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Old 07-18-2002, 06:25 PM   #83
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Sorry man, didn't mean to digress or cause any trouble in the thread. I just didn't think that the point "the average American thinks of the Judeo-Christian Jehovah - the triune God (Father, Son, and Holy Ghost). " was valid. Wasn't nit-picking, I was just trying to clarify something.

Especially considering the average American probably has no clue what a triune God is, let alone who's part of it.

Whatever, sorry.
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Old 07-18-2002, 07:57 PM   #84
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I wasn't asserting what the average American thinks, just putting out a hypothetical:

IF the typical American thinks of a VERY specific idea of God when reciting the Pledge (including its vague notion of God), it STILL doesn't make the Pledge unconstitutional.

Either way, no need to apologize.
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