Peterson....to die

[beau2ifulday]

I don't agree with this at all. What Peterson did makes me feel sick to my stomach, but this makes me sick to my stomach too.

I'm not going to say anymore. I don't really want to criticise the views of others, and I just don't raelly want to ponder on this for too long or i'm going to get myself worked up.

 

[cardosino]

No, when you get falsely accused, you can still be tried, convicted and executed. So you don't even have to commit murder to get murdered by the state.

The possibility for a wrong verdict lies with all cases, not just death penalty ones.

BTW, proportionally more black accused get the death penalty (and especially when the victims are white) than do white accused (regardless of the rase of the victim).

From the ACLU website:
http://www.aclu.org/DeathPenalty/DeathPenalty.cfm?ID=9312&c=62

[/B]

There is so much statistical data required to come to that conclusion which is NOT mentioned in the report I'm not even going to comment on it.

I'd venture a guess that minorities are disproprtinately incarcerated for ALL types of violent crimes, not just the death penalty ones. And for the root caus eof that, I'll let you draw your own conclusions and make your own hypotheses. I doubt there is anything unique about death penalty cases making them inherently racist.

There have been gross miscarriages of justices for ALL colors, and that is onje of the many reasons I am personally against the death penalty for anyone.

 

[Popmartijn]

The possibility for a wrong verdict lies with all cases, not just death penalty ones.

True, but with a death penalty case you can't overturn the verdict when the wrongfully accused is executed. And even though it may be only a couple of overturned cases per year, those are a couple of grossly incompetent prior judgements too many.

 

[cardosino]

True, but with a death penalty case you can't overturn the verdict when the wrongfully accused is executed. And even though it may be only a couple of overturned cases per year, those are a couple of grossly incompetent prior judgements too many.

Exactly. one of the reasons I am against the death penalty, I don't believe it's racist, but I do believe it's morally wrong, and extremely flawed.

 

[Irvine511]

the implementation of the death penalty is deeply racist, and the logic behind the death penalty is wrong as well.

for me, as i've said, i don't apply any idealism. i support methods of euthenasia, just as i am pro-choice and anti-death penalty. it is not upon me to make these decisions what a person does with his or her life, nor is it upon the state to do so.

with euthenasia, for me, the problem is involving the doctor in the taking of someone's life, not the actual fact that someone terminally ill wants to end their life. in abortion, i don't feel qualified to determine when life begins -- though the viability of the fetus might play into that -- but i feel a woman is 100% qualified to determine whether or not she can carry a pregnancy to term, and in the end, the morality of that decision is between her and her Maker. and when combined with the social costs of outlawing abortion -- coat hangers and such -- it's easy to be pro-choice. finally, i am against the death penalty not because i think it is wrong for Scott Peterson to be killed for his actions, but because i do not think a government -- anywhere -- can ensure that such a final punishment can ever be properly implemented. it doesn't make sense to prove that killing is wrong by killing someone, nor does it make sense to kill somone who's sentence might be overturned due to human incompetence. i don't see any benefit to the death penalty other than to over emotional people independent of the victim's family who think this is some sort of action movie and the killers need their just desserts.

 

[cardosino]

the implementation of the death penalty is deeply racist,

How so ?

I don't agree with the death penalty at all, but it's not on race grounds, as the people on death row are there for a reason, they have been found guilty of a serious violent crime, or series of crimes. If the # of death row inmates is disproportionately skewed towards a certain group of people, you need to ask why that is and not just assume it race. How do the proportions compare against say those doing life ? Those doing 20 years ?

 

[joyfulgirl]

Wow, I agree with every word that Irvine said. The other thing about the death penalty that disturbs me is that I think sentences should be more remedial than punitive. If the death penalty were actually carried out quickly, that person, that soul, might never actually come to terms with what they've done. And since it's not carried out immediately, the scenario is no better--the person might in fact understand what they've done and feel remorse, and then they get to die anyway.

 

[starsgoblue]

I feels at odds with a system that will kill people that kill other people to show people that killing is wrong.

I can't even begin to wonder how Laci's family must have felt about hearing about her but I don't see how executing someone could somehow add up as justice. I think he should be in prision for the rest of his natural life but I have yet to see any society be ultimately for the better through the use of capital punishment. It doesn't deter any future atrocities or crimes.

 

[Irvine511]

I don't agree with the death penalty at all, but it's not on race grounds, as the people on death row are there for a reason, they have been found guilty of a serious violent crime, or series of crimes. If the # of death row inmates is disproportionately skewed towards a certain group of people, you need to ask why that is and not just assume it race. How do the proportions compare against say those doing life ? Those doing 20 years ?

i don't have time to dig up the quotes, but i belive it's a fact that a white jury will sentence a black defendent to significantly longer sentences than a white defendent even when it's the same crime, and are much more likely to deliver a death sentence on a black person than a white person. these statistics are even more striking when you're dealing with a black man who has killed a white woman.

yes, blacks commit a higher percentage of crimes and violent crimes than their percentage of the population -- due to many, many, many different factors -- but they are also punished, on average, more severely than their white counterparts.

didn't we all read "a time to kill"?

 

[cardosino]

i don't have time to dig up the quotes, but i belive it's a fact that a white jury will sentence a black defendent to significantly longer sentences than a white defendent even when it's the same crime,

Very rarely will you ever get an all white jury here in California, one of the places that is supposedly racist in their imlementation of the death penalty, and it's never the same crime as there are always different circumstances.

So basically it's racist only when it's an all-white jury and a black defendant ?

yes, blacks commit a higher percentage of crimes and violent crimes than their percentage of the population -- due to many, many, many different factors -- but they are also punished, on average, more severely than their white counterparts.

I don't suppose anyone can actually publish irrefutable statistically sound data to prove this can they ? I'm open to it if they can.

didn't we all read "a time to kill"?

Yes, I read "the chamber" too. Both works of fiction if I remember correctly.

 

[Irvine511]

Very rarely will you ever get an all white jury here in California, one of the places that is supposedly racist in their imlementation of the death penalty, and it's never the same crime as there are always different circumstances.

So basically it's racist only when it's an all-white jury and a black defendant ?

on a national level, it is much easier to get all white juries, especially in the South where, until recently, you basically have a two-toned society. not so much anymore, but historically this has been the case.

i'd also speculate, and again, don't have time to do the research, that almost any all-white jury would be, on average, harsher on a non-white defendent than a white defendent.

as i've said, i can't cite these things off the top of my head, but this is one fact that anti-death penalty activists will return to again-and-again-and-again. i'm certain there's plenty of research on it.

 

[U2Kitten]

In VA, there are a higher number of black dudes on death row because honestly, they did more things to be put there. Virginia's inner cities have a high black population, a high black on black crime rate, and a lot of drugs. They may all be on death row, but whenever there are executions they always make sure that just as many white dudes get it too. They always show the guy's picture on the news and it seems like a mix of both to me.They might even put white dudes ahead of some black dudes to stop cries of racism. But really, no matter what color they are, they got there by doing what they did. I don't even think women should be spared. That bitch Susan Smith who drowned her kids and lied and said a carjacker did it is just as bad as Peterson.

 

[Irvine511]

good arguments are not made from raw emotion and cursory observations.

 

[The Sneak]

 

[verte76]

My problem with capital punishment is that it's ireversable. You can let someone out of prison and throw away their police record, but you can't bring back the dead.

 

[akhan01]

how could a jury member convict peterson to death on the basis of his facial expressions and demeanor in court? that's absolutely ridiculous. people express their emotions differently. that peterson showed no outward remorse in court does not imply that he was not remorseful. the jury should weigh the evidence before it, not the mannerisms of the defendant.

 

[BVS]

The pregnancy didn't add much to the story. Scott contacting his mistress during the "search" for Lacy added the sex appeal the news wants.

No this murder was headlines before these details were even made public.

 

[A_Wanderer]

While white victims account for approximately one-half of all murder victims, 80% of all Capital cases involve white victims. Furthermore, as of October 2002, 12 people have been executed where the defendant was white and the murder victim black, compared with 178 black defendants executed for murders with white victims.

Does this even take into account hispanics and other groups - it is not just white and black. I am not surprised by this but I hardly think that it shows that the punishment is racist.

 

[Hallelujah Here She Comes]

I'm not touching the abortion thing again, I can't stand the hypocrisy and it upsets me so much I'll only get on another tirade. But I will address this. Classist and racist you say, the system that let OJ Simpson walk? Scott Peterson is neither a minority or a rich or poor person, so that does not apply. Waste of money? More than feeding, housing, and caring for a worthless wife killing fuckwad for the rest of his life, which is likely to be 40 more years or even longer? Terrifying finality? You mean like the one Laci felt on Christmas Eve 2002? Fuck him, he does not deserve any benefits of life. The twisted logic makes me so sick, I'm going to have to leave and tell myself not to click here again.

What twisted logic? How is it twisted to say that, unless it's a choice between your life and theirs, you don't get to decide to end someone's life? It's not about showing him mercy, and it's not about saying killing Laci and Connor was ok. It's about not giving anyone, including the state, the power to kill. Because killing is wrong. Period. So to sum up: I'm against the state killing people because killing people is wrong. Where's the logical problem?

I understand that this is something you feel very strongly about. But there are people on the other side who feel just as strongly and come from just as moral a place as you do.

 

[cardosino]

how could a jury member convict peterson to death on the basis of his facial expressions and demeanor in court? that's absolutely ridiculous. people express their emotions differently. that peterson showed no outward remorse in court does not imply that he was not remorseful. the jury should weigh the evidence before it, not the mannerisms of the defendant.

He had already been found guilty as a result of weighing the evidence. The evidence played no part in the sentencing phase.


The decision on whether to give him life inprison or death was always a subjective one, hence the staggering number of "character" witnesses.

 

[U2Kitten]

Also a lot of what comes into the decision is how cold blooded and premeditated it was. Someone said he used to say years ago if he killed someone he'd dump them in the bay and put food on their head and fingers so the fish would eat off their identifying marks, and that's what happened to Lacy. That didn't help his innocence claim, nor does the fact that, like OJ, there have been no other leads on a 'real' killer.

 

[U2Kitten]

Anybody remember the story of the doctor guy, I think his name was Jeffrey McDonald, who claimed hippies busted in the back door and killed his pregnant wife and 2 little girls then ran? He got death but kept appealing the hell out of his case for years until he finally died. At one point someone in an insane asylum claimed to be the hippie he invented for the story. It sounds like another Susan Smith and Charles Stuart fake carjacker tale.

My little girl used to pull that one when she was a toddler, claiming someone ran in the back door, did something, then ran back out so she wouldn't get blamed. A likely story, and if a kid can come up with it not a good one.

I remember another story on the old Unsolved Mysteries. There was a girl who said her husband took her for a ride in the country, then drug her out of the car, took her down a ravine, kicked her and shot her, telling her he'd never get caught because the gun was not registered to him and he was going to tell the cops they had a fight and she got out of the car and when he went back looking for her she was gone. He laughed at how he was going to get away with it and she would be dead. She played dead until he left, then with willpower and all her strength managed to survive for days until police dogs found her. She told her whole story and he went to jail.

There are too many evil people out there who think they can get rid of their wife and get away with it. Like Lacy's mom said, divorce was always an option. So was adoption for Susan Smith's kids. But they don't want the baggage, the child support and/or alimony, they want to be free. They actually believe they can get rid of their 'inconvenient' people and make themselves the grieving victim and go on with a happy life. AND they feel no remorse- until they get caught. Then they are very sorry, for themselves, but not the victim.

 

[Liesje]

Also a lot of what comes into the decision is how cold blooded and premeditated it was. Someone said he used to say years ago if he killed someone he'd dump them in the bay and put food on their head and fingers so the fish would eat off their identifying marks, and that's what happened to Lacy. That didn't help his innocence claim, nor does the fact that, like OJ, there have been no other leads on a 'real' killer.

Yeah, but you gotta take comments like that with a grain of salt, really. I've said outloud if I ever kill someone, I'd make sure I waxed every hair off my body and then commit the murder naked so there wouldn't be an trace from my clothes.

 

[U2Kitten]

Yeah, but you gotta take comments like that with a grain of salt, really. I've said outloud if I ever kill someone, I'd make sure I waxed every hair off my body and then commit the murder naked so there wouldn't be an trace from my clothes.

But in a murder trial, it's a bit too much of a coincidence. Too many details.

 

[BVS]

I remember another story on the old Unsolved Mysteries. There was a girl who said her husband took her for a ride in the country, then drug her out of the car, took her down a ravine, kicked her and shot her, telling her he'd never get caught because the gun was not registered to him and he was going to tell the cops they had a fight and she got out of the car and when he went back looking for her she was gone. He laughed at how he was going to get away with it and she would be dead. She played dead until he left, then with willpower and all her strength managed to survive for days until police dogs found her. She told her whole story and he went to jail.

Sounds like that Unsolved Mystery was solved.

 

[Liesje]

But in a murder trial, it's a bit too much of a coincidence. Too many details.

It is exactly that - too much of a coincidence. The important thing to remember about this whole ordeal is that from a legal standpoint, Scott Peterson was convicted of first degree murder and sentenced to death on entirely circumstantial evidence. I don't doubt he did it, but it's quite amazing really.

 

[Macfistowannabe]

I do think this case was popular for quite a few reasons, here we go:

A. Scott Peterson's extramarital affair - which certainly didn't give the jury any reason to think that Scott Peterson was the boy next door. I think it might have pissed off a few female jurors to know about it. Then again, I can't help but think that he may have killed his wife because he didn't want to live with her, and instead, live his life - or at least part of it - with Amber Frey. Sad thing is, she didn't even know Scott was married.

"First of all, I met him on Nov. 20," she told reporters at the time. "When I was introduced, I was told he was not married. Scott told me he wasn't married. We had a romantic relationship. When I discovered he was involved in the Laci Peterson case, I immediately contacted the Modesto Police Department." - Amber Frey

B. Laci was Pregnant - definately got the pro-lifers' attention. Maybe Scott didn't want to raise a child and Laci did? It probably kept going for speed because of the whole election year, and people want to hear news that isn't always exclusively political.

C. Laci was Very Young - she seemed like a fairly attractive girl next door type, who deserved much better than the card she was dealt. Scott also seemed pretty young, and I heard quite a while ago that some women wrote him love notes while he was in the slammer.

D. The Many Faces of Scott Peterson - He changed his looks, dyed his hair, and grew a goate around the time he was considered a suspect. He also took a suspiciously large amount of money with him.

E. It Happened in California - and California gets a lot of press attention. The average nobody on the street knows who their governor is, and so forth.

F. Mark Geragos - one of the most famous lawyers alive. Backed Michael Jackson for a while, and insisted that Peterson was innocent even after the guilty verdict. After the result of this case, I must say, Johnny Cochran is better at making nonsense comments.

I probably left out some points, but I can't think of anything more at the moment. I'm pretty sure I nailed the core, but if I didn't, feel free to correct me.

 

[nbcrusader]

It's Official!

Scott gets the chair (okay, a nice drug induced execution)

Judge Agrees on Death Penalty for Peterson

Let the endless appeals begin.....

 

[deep]

Does this give you any satifaction?

 

[BAW]

A death sentence in California is a symbolic gesture. Scott Peterson will die of natural causes before he makes it to the death chamber.