Parents Choose Prayer Over Doctor, Daughter Dies

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MrsSpringsteen

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Parents pick prayer over docs; girl dies

By ROBERT IMRIE, Associated Press Writer Fri Mar 28

Police are investigating an 11-year-old girl's death from an undiagnosed, treatable form of diabetes after her parents chose to pray for her rather than take her to a doctor.

An autopsy showed Madeline Neumann died Sunday of diabetic ketoacidosis, a condition that left too little insulin in her body, Everest Metro Police Chief Dan Vergin said.

She had probably been ill for about a month, suffering symptoms such as nausea, vomiting, excessive thirst, loss of appetite and weakness, the chief said Wednesday, noting that he expects to complete the investigation by Friday and forward the results to the district attorney.

The girl's mother, Leilani Neumann, said that she and her family believe in the Bible and that healing comes from God, but that they do not belong to an organized religion or faith, are not fanatics and have nothing against doctors.

She insisted her youngest child, a wiry girl known to wear her straight brown hair in a ponytail, was in good health until recently.

"We just noticed a tiredness within the past two weeks," she said Wednesday. "And then just the day before and that day (she died), it suddenly just went to a more serious situation. We stayed fast in prayer then. We believed that she would recover. We saw signs that to us, it looked like she was recovering."

Her daughter — who hadn't seen a doctor since she got some shots as a 3-year-old, according to Vergin — had no fever and there was warmth in her body, she said.

The girl's father, Dale Neumann, a former police officer, said he started CPR "as soon as the breath of life left" his daughter's body.

Family members elsewhere called authorities to seek help for the girl.

"My sister-in-law, she's very religious, she believes in faith instead of doctors ...," the girl's aunt told a sheriff's dispatcher Sunday afternoon in a call from California. "And she called my mother-in-law today ... and she explained to us that she believes her daughter's in a coma now and she's relying on faith."

The dispatcher got more information from the caller and asked whether an ambulance should be sent.

"Please," the woman replied. "I mean, she's refusing. She's going to fight it. ... We've been trying to get her to take her to the hospital for a week, a few days now."

The aunt called back with more information on the family's location, emergency logs show. Family friends also made a 911 call from the home. Police and paramedics arrived within minutes and immediately called for an ambulance that took her to a hospital.

But less than an hour after authorities reached the home, Madeline — a bright student who left public school for home schooling this semester — was declared dead.

She is survived by her parents and three older siblings.

"We are remaining strong for our children," Leilani Neumann said. "Only our faith in God is giving us strength at this time."

The Neumanns said they moved from California to a modern, middle-class home in woodsy Weston, just outside Wassau in central Wisconsin, about two years ago to open a coffee shop and be closer to other relatives. A basketball hoop is set up in the driveway.

Leilani Neumann said she and her husband are not worried about the investigation because "our lives are in God's hands. We know we did not do anything criminal. We know we did the best for our daughter we knew how to do."
 
Glad they let you pray in prison...idiots.
 
Irvine511 said:
i guess not everything is possible with Jesus.

Who knew?

I don't have a problem with people who want to stare at the sun...to each their own I say. But when you make your children do it, then it's a problem.
 
Take her to the doctor and then pray. They're not mutually exclusive.
 
MrsSpringsteen said:
The Neumanns said they moved from California to a modern, middle-class home in woodsy Weston, just outside Wassau in central Wisconsin,

Weston??? Holy crow, that's where I'm from. (They misspelled Wausau, though - pfft.) I never thought I'd see Weston in the news anywhere outside of ... well, Weston.

What a horrible, sad story.
 
My pastor has a phrase -- "so heavenly minded that you are no earthly good." Prayer is what you use when every other recourse has failed -- not when the disease is treatable by doctors God has provided for this very purpose.
 
nathan1977 said:
My pastor has a phrase -- "so heavenly minded that you are no earthly good."
I like that...

nathan1977 said:

Prayer is what you use when every other recourse has failed --

Not sure about this. I mean if you believe in prayer shouldn't it be an everyday, every scenario type of thing, not just when everything has failed?
 
BonoVoxSupastar said:


Not sure about this. I mean if you believe in prayer shouldn't it be an everyday, every scenario type of thing, not just when everything has failed?

There are things God has already provided for us that we don't have to ask him for. Doctors and science are two. I believe in praying for the doctors who are working on friends of mine. Once they say "There's nothing more we can do," that's when my prayers move to a whole level.

Scripture says "pray without ceasing," so I'd like to think I live a life of prayer, but I don't think that prayer is primarily about the submitting and granting of requests.
 
Exactly right. One doesn't pray for God to transport you from New York to Los Angeles, you board a plane and pray for a safe flight.

I don't suppose they bothered to notice how many hospitals have Methodist, Baptist, Presbyterian or Saint in their name.
 
The best way to deal with these types is to tell them that God blessed the Dr.'s with the knowledge and the strength to heal and that is why they are dr.'s and other people are not. The dr. is there to do God's work! God helps those who help themselves, so help yourself and get to the damn dr.!
 
MrsSpringsteen said:
The girl's mother, Leilani Neumann, said that she and her family believe in the Bible and that healing comes from God, but that they do not belong to an organized religion or faith, are not fanatics and have nothing against doctors.

If letting your child die because you're delusional enough to believe prayer is a better idea than seeing a doctor isn't enough to make you a fanatic, then what is?!
 
BonoVoxSupastar said:

Not sure about this. I mean if you believe in prayer shouldn't it be an everyday, every scenario type of thing, not just when everything has failed?

Indeed it should.


Anyway, God gave you a brain and logic, so these people should have used theirs. Absolutely ridiculous.
 
What an awful way to die. She'd have felt so terribly ill leading up to that. How these parents could ignore that is just beyond comprehension.
 
Re: Re: Parents Choose Prayer Over Doctor, Daughter Dies

Axver said:


If letting your child die because you're delusional enough to believe prayer is a better idea than seeing a doctor isn't enough to make you a fanatic, then what is?!

Exactly.
and if they aren't of any particular religion, what grounds will they use as a defense.
Their own beliefs? Will that hold up in court?

I feel for the other 3 children left in their care. If not in their care anylonger then the possible miserable life in the foster system.
 
INDY500 said:
Exactly right. One doesn't pray for God to transport you from New York to Los Angeles, you board a plane and pray for a safe flight.

The scriptures are not full of things like this.

and no one was ever made a saint because a believer said I prayed to them and I was teleported?


Every religious person I know will say they believe that praying can lead people to being cured.

This is what religious people teach and preach all the time.


I guess it is fine to impose religious beliefs on others when it suits ones goals.

What if an adult said I will take no medical procedures, I will pray for the Lord to heal me?

How many of you would want medical treatment forced on that individual?
 
deep said:


Every religious person I know will say they believe that praying can lead people to being cured.

This is what religious people teach and preach all the time.


I guess it is fine to impose religious beliefs on others when it suits ones goals.

What if an adult said I will take no medical procedures, I will pray for the Lord to heal me?

How many of you would want medical treatment forced on that individual?


That of course, would depend on the nature of the illness or disease/injury etc.. and how well you knew the adult before said event.
But as an adult my wishes should be carried out in such an manner as my family, and lawyer have been instructed.
Especially if I become irrational to the point of saying something like this when they know it's not how I would normally act.
But if I had a devoutly religious sibling/friend who said it for themselves and I knew them to be this devout, then I would follow their instructions, since that is what they have told me from the beginning. Even though they could possibly be saved by medical means.
Children are different - they should not be allowed to suffer and die just because a devout parents prayer will save them.
I would intervene on a family or friends behalf and recommend the removal of a child in this situation, even if it was a sister or brother.
 
These stories make me want to tear my hair out, and for all intents and purposes I do consider myself a Christian person. I have never understood the notion that God's will and science/medicine are mutually exclusive. I could not believe in a God if science and medicine were not God-willed. This case is one example of why I have avoided church and organized religion the past few years. I don't buy into the dichotomy of good vs. evil, Satan vs God, and that everything is one thing set against another (ie, prayer vs. medicine).
 
deep said:

This is what religious people teach and preach all the time.

"Religious people"-would that be all or some? I consider my mother to be a religious person. My brother is a diabetic and never in a million years would she consider prayer to cure his diabetes. He was diagnosed as an adult but if it had been as a child she would consider science to help, because of course there is no cure. She prays, actually every night because that's what she likes to do. She prays for strength and comfort, but she is also a one hundred percent believer in science. Many "religious people" are that way, probably more than you might think. Many are rational, intelligent beings.

And I completely agree with sue, adults can make that choice for themselves if that's what they choose to do and they are mentally competent. Children can't, and your first obligation as a parent is to honor that and protect that and put their well being above any of your ideology, religion, whatever.
 
Maybe somebody should put them on trial for criminally negligent homicide and instead of getting a lawyer, they should sit there and pray not to go to jail.
 
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