Our last piece of freedom of speech....

[BVS]

Not to mention the bloody path to reach that stage which has repeatedly led to totalitarianism.

Here is where the theory fails. The theory isn't evil by itself, but once you place it in human hands it becomes a tool of evil.

This is something that many fail to see.

 

[Vincent Vega]

Caroni im sorry for what is going on but you need to stay and fight, that what people do, they need to rise up and fight and stay in their homeland and make a stand - if people just sat and let things roll over, then this is how shit happens! You can make a difference!

This sounds so good in theory, but in reality it is far too dangerous under most regimes.

Stay as long as it is safe to protest, but dare to leave if it becomes too dangerous.

 

[A_Wanderer]

Here is where the theory fails. The theory isn't evil by itself, but once you place it in human hands it becomes a tool of evil.

This is something that many fail to see.

But I think the idea of communal ownership is a bad thing, not evil per se but certainly undesirable.

 

[INDY500]

Memorial To Be Dedicated June 12

"The world has been reluctant to acknowledge the horrors of Communism... Now at last they will be memorialized." - Washington Times

The Victims of Communism Memorial will be dedicated on Tuesday morning, June 12, 2007, in Washington, D.C. Rep. Tom Lantos, chairman of the House Foreign Affairs Committee, will give the keynote address while Rep. Dana Rohrabacher will deliver remarks. President George W. Bush has also been invited to speak. A crowd of 1,000 including Congressional leaders, members of the diplomatic corps, ethnic leaders, foreign dignitaries, and Memorial supporters, is expected to attend the historic event.

The dedication will take place at the Memorial site at the intersection of Massachusetts Ave., N.W., New Jersey Ave., N.W., and G St., N.W., two blocks from Union Station and within view of the U.S. Capitol.

Built to honor the more than 100 million people who died because of a tyrannical ideology.

 

[CTU2fan]

It's not the ideology that's tyrannical, rather the tyrants who've killed in its name.

 

[Vincent Vega]

Capitalism didn't kill less.

 

[Ormus]

Not that I'm a fan of communism, but what a silly memorial. But give it a few years, and I'm sure "The Victims of Capitalism Memorial" will be erected somewhere to commemorate everything from the U.S./U.K. toppling of Iran PM Mohammed Mossadegh to Guatemalan President Jacobo Arbenz to U.S. intervention in Chile that led to support for the dictator, Gen. Augusto Pinochet to the U.S.' support of Indonesia's invasion of East Timor that killed 200,000 people.

 

[Caroni]

Caroni im sorry for what is going on but you need to stay and fight, that what people do, they need to rise up and fight and stay in their homeland and make a stand - if people just sat and let things roll over, then this is how shit happens! You can make a difference!

Do you think that I just stayed watching TV while the others figth?. Of course not, I`ve spent this 8 years first preaching to people not to vote for him, then, figthing, protesting and most importanty, voting, even my family suffered, whe were kicked out of PDVSA (the state oil company) because we supported the general strike (we were forced to support it because our goods and employees were in danger) , my counsins almost got shooted at a march and even my mom got some tear gas at a protest.


it is not safe to protest anymore, but still we do it.


What can we do if this goverment has absolute control of everthing? from the things you eat till the process of making laws


Of course I don´t want to leave, but I don´t want to stay in a country where all you have is not really yours and can be taken at any moment




I´m hoping for a miracle to happen (and trying make it happen)

 

[anitram]

Caroni im sorry for what is going on but you need to stay and fight, that what people do, they need to rise up and fight and stay in their homeland and make a stand - if people just sat and let things roll over, then this is how shit happens! You can make a difference!

I don't think we have any place to tell people who to live their lives, when to go or when to leave. Sometimes, leaving is the right thing to do, sometimes it is not. It's certainly not for us to decide, sitting on our asses thousands of miles away.

 

[yolland]

Venezuelans vote Sunday on Chávez's plan to scrap term limits on his rule

By Sara Miller Llana
Christian Science Monitor, Nov. 28

CARACAS -- University student Elena Mela had never protested in her life. But last week she joined thousands of students in the streets of Caracas to fight against Sunday's referendum on President Hugo Chávez's plan to scrap term limits on his rule. "This will change our entire country," says Ms. Mela. "I will keep fighting for my values."

Despite recent polls showing a decline in support for Mr. Chávez's proposed constitutional reforms, most analysts say he will prevail. But unlike other chapters in his eight-year reign, the growing opposition among students and even from members within his own party--including a longtime ally and former general--could signal that he is pushing changes too fast and too hard.

...In addition to abolishing presidential term limits, Chávez's proposed reforms would lower the voting age to 16 from 18, reduce the workday from eight to six hours, and establish Venezuela as a socialist state, among scores of other changes.

The referendum has provoked an enormous--and at times tense--display of people power. One man was shot dead on Monday as he tried to drive his truck through an area blocked by protesters. Among a fractured opposition, students have emerged as the most cohesive antireferendum force...But students have been careful not to link themselves to the opposition, which has been defeated repeatedly at the ballot box since Chávez, was first elected in 1998. Students say they are focused solely on the referendum--not on the ouster of Chávez as the opposition often calls for.

Students, as they have across Latin America, have played important roles in Venezuela, protesting its dictatorships, first in 1928 and then again 30 years later. But during the Chávez regime they had remained quiet--until the shutdown of an opposition television station in late May that was widely watched by Venezuelans of all economic backgrounds. This is the first time they emerged in force during his rule, and analysts say it caught the country off-guard. "This went after something that really touched a nerve," says Michael Shifter, vice president for policy at the Inter-American Dialogue in Washington. "It was the first egregious example of overreaching [by Chávez]."

While the student movement stems largely from private universities or more elite ones like the public Central University of Venezuela, students resent the fact that Chávez has linked them to the so-called oligarchy--at one point calling them "rich bourgeois brats." "I'm not the daughter of rich parents, like the president says," says Mela, who voted for Chávez during his first election because the country needed a change, she says, and put herself through school with a scholarship and job.

To be sure, there are also tens of thousands of students on Chávez's side. Doors and walls at the Bolivarian University of Venezuela, opened by Chávez in 2003 to give access to scores of students who otherwise might not have a chance to attend university, are plastered with red stickers reading "Sí," a call to vote "Yes" on the amendment changes. César Trompiz, a member of the President's Student Commission for Popular Power, says that it is ironic that some students are protesting of the "revolution." "The opposition has lost everything in this country but private companies and universities; this is all they have left," he says. "[The opposition students] have kidnapped the symbols of student protest. No student in the world would protest to defend a company, or a [university] rector."

Still, some say that Chávez should be more concerned about former allies who have come out against him--most notably his former Defense Minister Gen. Raul Baduel, who recently called the reform package a "coup."

[Central University sociologist Edgardo] Lander says such discontent among Chávez supporters will be the new challenge for the government in the coming years. "There are a lot of [discontented] people who will vote 'yes,' because they don't want the opposition to win and don't want to weaken the government," says Lander. "It won't have that much impact on this referendum, but it is a new part of the political situation."

 

[MaxFisher]

If we all get Soma, who the fuck cares

 

[canedge]

"Capitalism didn't kill less"


Capitalism only kills hearts

 

[yolland]

Chávez suffers blow to his 'revolution': reforms defeated

By Daniel Cancel and Sara Miller Llana
Christian Science Monitor, Dec. 4

CARACAS -- Venezuelan President Hugo Chávez suffered an unprecedented defeat after voters on Sunday rejected a constitutional package of 69 reforms that included scrapping presidential term limits and declaring Venezuela a socialist state. It is the first major electoral setback suffered by Mr. Chávez, a former military officer, since he swept into office nine years ago and the clearest sign yet that support for his "21st-century socialism" is on the wane.

Buoyed by record-high oil prices, he has created allies at home and abroad as he has doled out millions in social-service programs and discounted oil, at the same time becoming increasingly hostile toward the US, which he calls the "empire." But analysts say that many of the reforms on the ballot Sunday were too radical for some voters, and that an amendment to abolish term limits was seen as a power grab. Although he remains widely popular and opponents only won by two points, Venezuelans rejected a new Constitution that would have forged the way for him to become the most powerful leader in Latin America. The defeat may limit his reform plans and serve as a warning to other regional leaders following in his footsteps.

"Up until now this appeared to be an indestructible government, but now people realize it is possible to find its weaknesses," says Elsa Cardozo, a foreign policy expert at the Central University of Venezuela. "This can also be a lesson for the opposition in Bolivia and Ecuador. Here [the opposition] found the government's Achilles heel and attacked it democratically at the polls."

Chávez conceded victory after official results were announced early Monday morning: The "Nos" took 51% of the vote, while those in support of the reforms got 49%, according to the national electoral commission. "I congratulate my adversaries for this victory," Chávez said on state television early Monday morning. "For now, we could not do it."

The lead-up to the campaign was marked by tense protests as students flooded the streets to demonstrate against constitutional changes they called undemocratic. Perhaps Chávez's biggest blow came from his former allies, such as former Defense Minister Raúl Baduel, who likened the proposals to a "coup."

Leading up to the vote, Chávez had become increasingly combative. After Colombian President Álvaro Uribe cut off his role as a hostage negotiator with leftist guerrillas, Chávez recalled Venezuela's ambassador. Chávez then threatened to nationalize Spanish banks operating in Venezuela after the King of Spain told him to "shut up" during an international meeting last month. He also threatened to cut off oil to the US if Washington interfered in the referendum. Before Sunday's referendum, he said that those planning to vote against him were "traitors" and that a defeat could put a halt to his revolution.

The 69 proposed amendments would have allowed him to personally select state and regional officials. Reforms would have dissolved the autonomy of the Central Bank, given the president direct access to the international reserves, and – among the most controversial moves – abolished term limits for heads of state. As the Constitution stands now, he will have to step down from his post in 2013.

In the impoverished neighborhoods that are the base of his support, and those who have most benefited from literacy programs and medical clinics paid for by oil profits, support is mixed. "I'm sick and tired of his rhetoric and speech, there's no dialogue, no substance. I don't care what happens in other countries if it doesn't affect me," says Leticia De Luna, an older housewife standing outside a voting center in El Valle, a Chávez stronghold.
................................................................................
It's too early to say whether the opposition gain ground on Chávez as a result of the vote. Still, analysts agree that Chávez will have to spend a bit more time listening to those not in lockstep with his agenda for radical change..."He must stop considering that those who aren't in agreement with him are lackeys of the 'empire', putchists, worms, or serpents," says Teodoro Petkoff, director of the opposition newspaper, Tal Cual. "Here we're all Venezuelans."

 

[phillyfan26]

Yeah, we discussed this quite a bit in school today. It seems like it was quite an "upset."