Other religions - Page 14 - U2 Feedback

Go Back   U2 Feedback > Lypton Village > Free Your Mind > Free Your Mind Archive
Click Here to Login
 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 06-06-2002, 01:50 PM   #261
The Fly
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Edmonton, Alberta
Posts: 130
Local Time: 12:08 AM
And personally, I think I've only fasted 3-4 times in my life. Usually it's just not having lunch and dinner and using that time to pray about something that's important at that time. Those times are usually simply my own idea and choice. Or a friend says they feel that a group of us should fast and pray about something, so I would join them.

Only once was it for longer than a day, and that was something where a specific church decided that they wanted to do it as a group for a week, and people were encouraged to take part if they wanted, and could sign up for 3-4 days within that week. So since I was going there fairly regularly at the time, I took part.

Personally I don't agree with things like Lent. I feel that they are based out of a belief that they improve a person's standing with God, or that they make someone better in God's eyes, or are that somebody has to do it in order to be considered Christian. Like Achtung Bubba said, I believe that that sort of thinking is far from the way God wants us to view our relationship with him, so I stay away from it.

I believe that the sort of activity God really cherishes and appreciates are things like sitting for a coffee with a homeless man, or being a friend to the gay kid at school that everyone makes fun of. Those are the rules. Love other people as much as you love yourself... which is a lot.
__________________

KingPin is offline  
Old 06-07-2002, 11:36 AM   #262
AM
Refugee
 
AM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: right underneath the north pole
Posts: 2,409
Local Time: 11:08 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by KingPin
So to say that all gods are the same is simply incorrect. And to say that all religions are the same is also false, for how can they be the same when the varying basis of their beliefs are fundamentally and dramatically different.

ok, found your post. Its kinda hard to keep track of all the post in this thread.

before I will explain why all the religions are the same, I have to ask you to look the them slightely different like youve done before. Try and see the things that all the religions have in common.

Bah'u'llh (the founder of the Bahai faith) explained that God, the Creator, has intervened and will continue to intervene in human history by means of chosen Messengers. These Messengers, Whom Bah'u'llh called "Manifestations of God ," are principally the Founders of the major revealed religions, such as Abraham, Moses, Buddha, Zoroaster, Jesus, Muhammad, and so forth. It is the spirit released by the coming of these Manifestations, together with the influence of Their teachings and the social systems established by Their laws and precepts, that enable humankind to progress in its collective evolution. Simply put: the Manifestations of God are the chief educators of humanity. With regard to the various religious systems that have appeared in human history, Bah'u'llh has said:

"These principles and laws, these firmly-established and mighty systems, have proceeded from one Source and are the rays of one Light. That they differ one from another is to be attributed to the varying requirements of the ages in which they were promulgated.
Thus the principle of the unity of religion means that all of the great religious Founders--the Manifestations--have come from God, and that all of the religious systems established by Them are part of a single divine plan directed by God. "

In reality, there is only one religion, the religion of God. This one religion is continually evolving, and each particular religious system represents a stage in the evolution of the whole. The Bah' Faith represents the current stage in the evolution of religion.
__________________

AM is offline  
Old 06-07-2002, 11:37 AM   #263
AM
Refugee
 
AM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: right underneath the north pole
Posts: 2,409
Local Time: 11:08 PM
this is what I think. I know you dont have to agree, but I wanted you to know this.

Also personally I think that Christians like to take it the easy way. Sort of like, yes God would like us to do this, but because Im only human, I cant do it anyway so I wont even try. Sort of making your own rules.

After all, this is a thread about Other religions than Christianity. k?
AM is offline  
Old 06-07-2002, 01:09 PM   #264
Refugee
 
Achtung Bubba's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: One Nation. Under God.
Posts: 1,513
Local Time: 07:08 PM
I agree with AM - to a degree - that religions are similar. As C.S. Lewis noted (in Mere Christianity and other works), they all indicate that we are truly guided by an ABSOLUTE morality. While religions disagree on the number of wives a man can have, they all proscribe faithfulness. While they disagree on whom you should love (family, nation, etc.), they all agree that we should be selfless. In fact, it's hard to even imagine a morality that proscribes cowardice and treachery.

(Even our society that tends to moral relativism never asserts that cowardice is better than bravery; and in a real crisis - be it disaster natural or manmade - our culture drops the pretence and embraces the heroic.)

That said, there are MAJOR differences between religions: some assert dualism, that there's really no such thing as good and bad; others, like Christianity strongly disagree. Some believe in reincarnation, some don't.

And, beyond that, Jesus Christ is VERY different from Abraham, Moses, Mohammad, Buddha, Confucius, and Socrates: He asserted that He is God. If you asked Moses or Buddha, "are you God?" they would scoff at the notion. Christ constantly hinted at it, assumed the privileges of God (by forgiving transgressions against others), and claimed it outright when pressed.

Basically, Jesus Christ is not "just another." He's not just another wise teacher, or just another messenger. He claimed to BE God. To again reference Lewis, he either was a madman, demon-possessed, or TRULY God. He never left "just another" as an option.

Quote:
Originally posted by AM
Also personally I think that Christians like to take it the easy way. Sort of like, yes God would like us to do this, but because Im only human, I cant do it anyway so I wont even try. Sort of making your own rules.
That may be what some Christians do, but it is NOT Christianity. Let's see just part of the standard that Christ set for us, as delineated in the Sermon on the Mount (Matthew 5-7):

- Don't break any of these commandments, or teach others to break them.
- Don't murder OR hate.
- Don't commit adultery OR lust.
- Be honest in everything you say.
- If a man takes a dollar from you, give him ten.
- Love your enemies.
- Be perfect as your Father is perfect.
- Be discrete in helping others.
- Be secretive in praying, pray genuinely from the heart.
- Forgive others as your Father has forgiven you.
- Don't worry about your daily needs, but focus on God.
- Don't judge others.

If you HONESTLY consider what it means to not hate or lust, to actually love your enemies, you'll see that Christ's standard is impossibly high.

Christ never suggested that he was only kidding, and Paul emphasizes the point that we ARE to follow the law:

What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof. Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.
- Romans 6:1-2, 12-13

(The only way that Christianity could be considered an easy path is that we believe God helps us on that path, that when we pray, it is God the Holy Spirit praying through us to God the Father, with God the Son as the example we are to follow. In one sense, the only thing man does is relinquish the self so that this can occur. That is much easier than the impossible task of trying to do it ourselves. BUT, it's also the only way it can be done.)

It may indeed be the case that certain Christians believe they can slack off, that they can sin without a care because the sin is covered by grace.

But they are wrong.

That said, this thread should be focused on other faiths, but I deem it appropriate for Christians to occasionally explain their faith in greater detail or point out the real contrast between their beliefs and those of others.
__________________
DISCLAIMER: The author of the preceding is known
for engaing in very long discussions.
Achtung Bubba is offline  
Old 06-16-2002, 03:26 PM   #265
Refugee
 
RavenStar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Purgatory
Posts: 1,101
Local Time: 07:08 PM
Well I'm back from camp. What's interesting is that this topic was intended for discussions other than Christianity.
RavenStar is offline  
Old 06-16-2002, 03:41 PM   #266
ONE
love, blood, life
 
Basstrap's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Posts: 10,726
Local Time: 09:38 PM
welcome back!!

I have left a question for you somewhere up above.

I tried not to imply anything offensive about you
just very curious, thats all
Basstrap is offline  
Old 06-16-2002, 04:31 PM   #267
ONE
love, blood, life
 
Basstrap's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Posts: 10,726
Local Time: 09:38 PM
Re: whenever you return

Quote:
Originally posted by Basstrap
I have a question for ravenstar whenever she may return.

Mothers are the most loving people in the world, generally. They would do anything for their children and sometimes a lot of what they do is in no way beneficial to them.
They would sacrifice anything fot their children, thats just how unconditional their love is.
You say you love to help people because it makes you feel good or has some benefit for you ,but assuming you ever become a mother or that there are mothers who think like you and who are "satanists" what is the limit of what they do for their children?
I mean, I've heard moving stories of mothers laying down their lives so their children may live.

If you saw your child about to get hit by a bus would you jump and push him/her out of the way?
Since you don't believe in the soul you will just die and thats it. There is absolutley no benefit.

Or since you don't really believe in that unconditional, selfless love would you simply watch as the child's life came to an end?

thank-you for your time
.
.
.
end.
.
Thought I'd bring it back up.
Again, I'm not being offensive or anything I just see mothers as the epitimy of self-sacrifice and selfless love and was wondering how that might fit into your religion.
Basstrap is offline  
Old 06-16-2002, 07:28 PM   #268
Refugee
 
RavenStar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Purgatory
Posts: 1,101
Local Time: 07:08 PM
I would jump infront of the bus to save my child (or any child). One of the satanic rules states "do not harm little children" If I could save a childs life and I didnt I consider that harming them. If I was in a wheelchair or something Then there is not much I could do but I certainly would try.
RavenStar is offline  
Old 06-17-2002, 01:07 AM   #269
The Fly
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: dallas,tx,usa
Posts: 199
Local Time: 12:08 AM
How old are you, RavenStar? You mentioned something about camp?
whiteflag is offline  
Old 06-17-2002, 04:22 PM   #270
Refugee
 
RavenStar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Purgatory
Posts: 1,101
Local Time: 07:08 PM
music camp is for ppl interested in expanding their musical abilities between the grades of 6-OAC. Im 14(15 in a week)
RavenStar is offline  
Old 06-17-2002, 06:47 PM   #271
Refugee
 
Bonoa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: a nuthouse for total Egyptfreaks
Posts: 1,040
Local Time: 02:08 AM
Kingpin,

I think you're a nice guy, but saying that all other religions are not from the same God is a very 'dangerous thing to say.

The world is so big and so many cultures are in it. There was the era of colonization, where the colonists just slaughtered and enslaved people, simply because they didn't believe in the God of the colonists. They looked down on the native people. Evangelists and western politicians are still trying to spread the 'white culture' over the whole world.
Many cultures died because of that and it is still one of the first things of discrimination and fundamentalism. (I don't say that you discriminate, but some might do it, like the killed Dutch politician Pim Fortuyn, who was a Catholic and said that the Islam is a stupid culture)

Maybe Jesus was the Son of God, but I think the other prophets or Gurus(like Muhammed or Buddha) were also close to God. They just explained His existence from their own understandable point of view and I think that Jesus did the same thing. (an emic-thing, according to cultural anthropologists) But many elements of ancient cultures remained, like Christmas-trees, voo-doo in Cuba and so on.
All religions preach the same things like; don't kill anyone, love each other, be respectful and so on.

Open your mind. There is much, much more to explore...............
Bonoa is offline  
Old 06-18-2002, 04:03 AM   #272
AM
Refugee
 
AM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: right underneath the north pole
Posts: 2,409
Local Time: 11:08 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by RavenStar
What's interesting is that this topic was intended for discussions other than Christianity.

Ive been trying to point that out a couple of times, but...


AM is offline  
Old 06-18-2002, 10:57 AM   #273
Refugee
 
RavenStar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Purgatory
Posts: 1,101
Local Time: 07:08 PM
*points out new Christianity post she made*
RavenStar is offline  
Old 06-18-2002, 03:29 PM   #274
The Fly
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Edmonton, Alberta
Posts: 130
Local Time: 12:08 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by Bonoa
Kingpin,

I think you're a nice guy, but saying that all other religions are not from the same God is a very 'dangerous thing to say.

The world is so big and so many cultures are in it. There was the era of colonization, where the colonists just slaughtered and enslaved people, simply because they didn't believe in the God of the colonists. They looked down on the native people. Evangelists and western politicians are still trying to spread the 'white culture' over the whole world.
Many cultures died because of that and it is still one of the first things of discrimination and fundamentalism. (I don't say that you discriminate, but some might do it, like the killed Dutch politician Pim Fortuyn, who was a Catholic and said that the Islam is a stupid culture)

Maybe Jesus was the Son of God, but I think the other prophets or Gurus(like Muhammed or Buddha) were also close to God. They just explained His existence from their own understandable point of view and I think that Jesus did the same thing. (an emic-thing, according to cultural anthropologists) But many elements of ancient cultures remained, like Christmas-trees, voo-doo in Cuba and so on.
All religions preach the same things like; don't kill anyone, love each other, be respectful and so on.

Open your mind. There is much, much more to explore...............
Bonoa, you make some accurate observations about the problems associated with fundamentalism and discrimination. And many religions do preach the same things in their doctrine... however, just because they agree on points does not make them identical.

In my above post I stated this, but I'll summarize... thourought history the gods of the west were personal, but finite, and the gods of the east were infinite but not personal. The Christian faith is the only one that trusts in a God that is both infinite and personal. And when religions differ on the very focus of their belief system, they can hardly be said to be the same.
KingPin is offline  
Old 06-19-2002, 03:57 AM   #275
AM
Refugee
 
AM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: right underneath the north pole
Posts: 2,409
Local Time: 11:08 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by Bonoa
All religions preach the same things like; don't kill anyone, love each other, be respectful and so on.

Open your mind. There is much, much more to explore...............

thanks Bonoa, I was starting to think Im the only one who sees this
AM is offline  
Old 06-19-2002, 01:08 PM   #276
Refugee
 
Achtung Bubba's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: One Nation. Under God.
Posts: 1,513
Local Time: 07:08 PM
I agree that most religions preach very similar moral laws - a fact that C.S. Lewis used in "Mere Christianity" to suggest that the moral law is, in fact, a reality of our existence and not just a human invention; something like the multiplication table rather than the customs of what side of the road cars drive on.

So, in terms of the standards of behavior that religions set, one could say that they are pretty much the same.

The problem is, religion is not just concerned with the standards of behavior - or even PRIMARILY concerned with those standards. The primary concern of all religions is WHO made those standards: the nature of God.

On that subject, religions can be radically different. Some say there is no god (atheism - which requires just as much belief as theism and is thus, in my mind, simply an alternative religion). Some say there is a God (or gods), but He is an impersonal energy force. Others - most notably Judaism, Christianity - believe in a SUPREMELY personal God, and Christianity asserts that God Himself became a person.

And beyond the questions of the Creator and the standards He created, there is the question of the consequences; again, we see vastly different answers. Some religions believe there is no permanent consequence; when we die, we simply die. Some believe that the consequence manifests itself through reincarnation into an appropriate form of life. Some believe that if we're simply "good enough," we'll be accepted in Paradise. And one (Christianity) asserts that we're all doomed by our own selfishness, saved only accepting the sacrificial love God is freely giving.

Ultimately, only a handful of these faiths will be even close to being right about these questions. Take the question of His existence: either He exists, or He doesn't. Either the atheists are right, or we theists are right. The bottom line is, there IS a right answer.

So, different religions have VERY different answers to these VERY important questions. The answer DOES matter, so which religion you follow does also matter.
__________________
DISCLAIMER: The author of the preceding is known
for engaing in very long discussions.
Achtung Bubba is offline  
Old 06-20-2002, 02:47 AM   #277
The Fly
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: dallas,tx,usa
Posts: 199
Local Time: 12:08 AM
As always my compliments go out to Bubba.

I especially liked this

Quote:
The problem is, religion is not just concerned with the standards of behavior - or even PRIMARILY concerned with those standards. The primary concern of all religions is WHO made those standards: the nature of God.
That has been one of my favorite themes lately. But it is so cool to see someone say it in a few sentences instead of trying to write a novel like I do.

I just could not agree more. But I would like add a couple addled thoughts of my own because I think its valuable to understand that the real benefits to having the right answer go beyond the personal benefits of salvation.

It matters what we think of God because what we think of him affects everything else we think about whether a person believes in Him or not. This in turn effects how we view reality and how we make our decisions. And these things have direct consequences on how we conduct our relationships with others.

Plainly, no simple moral code is enough to deal with the incredible complexities of human relationships. Human needs can't be met with a system of legal formalities regulating our interactions with one another. But the higher aspect of religion that Bubba is talking about is more than up to handling the job because when we attempt to sort out our relationship with Reality we end up also sorting out how we plan to deal with the people in our lives as part of the process. Noone can deny that this is an important endeavor or that its important to get it right.

The most important thing then about any religion is that it offers its believers a framework or mode through which we sort out our relationships to everything and everyone. Since this framework begins with a religions concept of God we end up with vastly different results when a religion starts with, say, a distant God as opposed to a personal one. The religions of distant Gods will endlessly repeat this theme of distance throughout its teachings on actual human relationships. The one that starts with a personal God will advocate much more engagement and intimacy in its teachings on relationships. The religion of a distant God which has a lot of regulations to maintain our distance from God will have much more regulation or barriers defining human interaction which impairs true sharing and intimacy. One that has a close God will have little to get in the way of closeness with all of creation.

The implications go on and on. A lot like me I guess....

Sorry

Long story short, having the right answer about God will lead to the ideal way to deal with people.
whiteflag is offline  
Old 06-20-2002, 05:46 AM   #278
AM
Refugee
 
AM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: right underneath the north pole
Posts: 2,409
Local Time: 11:08 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by whiteflag
The most important thing then about any religion is that it offers its believers a framework or mode through which we sort out our relationships to everything and everyone.
so true, Whiteflag!


This is from the Hidden Words by Bah'u'llh I wanted to share with you. I think no matter what religion we are, we can all appreciate those words of wisdome.


O SON OF MAN!
I loved thy creation, hence I created thee. Wherefore, do thou love Me, that I may name thy name and fill thy soul with the spirit of life.




O SON OF BEING!
Love Me, that I may love thee. If thou lovest Me not, My love can in no wise reach thee. Know this, O servant.




O SON OF BEING!
Thy Paradise is My love; thy heavenly home, reunion with Me. Enter therein and tarry not. This is that which hath been destined for thee in Our kingdom above and Our exalted dominion.
AM is offline  
Old 06-20-2002, 10:54 AM   #279
Refugee
 
Achtung Bubba's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: One Nation. Under God.
Posts: 1,513
Local Time: 07:08 PM
I'll probably be criticized as too nit-picky, but, here it goes...

AM, I do appreciate the sentiment in which you posted, and I find nothing wrong with the first and third verses. That said, I disagree with the second verse:

Quote:
Originally posted by AM
O SON OF BEING!
Love Me, that I may love thee. If thou lovest Me not, My love can in no wise reach thee. Know this, O servant.
Put simply, Christianity asserts that God loves us unconditionally, that He loved us while we were unlovable:

But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. - Romans 5:8

We are capable of love precisely because He first loved us.

...and while that's certainly not a minor point, it doesn't diminish the spirit in which you posted.

__________________
DISCLAIMER: The author of the preceding is known
for engaing in very long discussions.
Achtung Bubba is offline  
Old 06-20-2002, 11:33 AM   #280
AM
Refugee
 
AM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: right underneath the north pole
Posts: 2,409
Local Time: 11:08 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by Achtung Bubba
Put simply, Christianity asserts that God loves us unconditionally, that He loved us while we were unlovable:

But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. - Romans 5:8

We are capable of love precisely because He first loved us.

...and while that's certainly not a minor point, it doesn't diminish the spirit in which you posted.
Bubba, it took me a while to understand this quote as well. Its a bit confusing.

It does not mean that God only loves us when we love him. No! God loves us whatever we do! Whoever we are! But we are not able to feel His love, recognize His love until we recognize God and love him. Does this makes sence to you
__________________

AM is offline  
 

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:08 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Design, images and all things inclusive copyright © Interference.com
×