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Old 06-07-2002, 05:46 PM   #41
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Remember that when it comes to taxes, Americans have one of the lowest tax rates in the industrialized world. Billions of dollars is not a lot of money when speaking of the scale of things that need to be done. 2% of are GNP today would be 200 BILLION dollars. Yet, what is being asked for is less than 10% of that. I support BONO's efforts because I have for many years known that the International Relations Budget of the United States has been grossly underfunded for decades. The problems of Africa will not fix themselves without outside aid and support. THAT is a fact!
The Economic devolopment of Africa is in the national interest of the United States. Right now, Africa is a great place for Terrorist like Al Quada and others to hide and find new recruits. That has to be closed up. Plus, and Economically devoloped Africa can buy American goods and services making the relationship with Africa a profitable one. Of course the scale of what needs to be done to achieve this will take decades or generations. But great improvements can happen now! Engagement, not Isolation and excuses for doing nothing, is the answer. Its time that some people like Rush and O'rieghly wake up and realize we now live in an interdependent world!
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Old 06-07-2002, 05:47 PM   #42
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crys

[QUOTE]Originally posted by mug222
[B]

I refer you to an earlier post of mine, which you seem to have ignored:

"The truth is that you simply cannot expect results from nickels and dimes: quantitative results vs. financial aid given is not at all a linear graph (i.e. 1 billion dollars will NOT be a tenth as beneficial as 10 billion dollars, but far less. This seems to be true, for instance, because you cannot combat half of malaria: if you do not eradicate the entire disease then it will always return with renewed force.) You can't touch the problem whatsoever until you are giving money on the right order of magnitude."

In other words, you will see LITTLE TO NO RESULTS from a few hundred million dollars.




Your second point truly reveals how ignorant you are in the matter:

Excuse me?

I suggest you do some research to see that aid in many places in Africa has been used and used effectively, and yet the U.S. refuses to give aid on a larger-scale. To use one basic example, $1 billion of Uganda's foreign debt was recently erased (the equivalent of $1 billion in foreign aid) and within a year school enrollment more than doubled. If that's not a significant result, I'm curious what is.




You are saying, in other words: "You just deflated every argument that I was going to poach from various ignorant Republican commentators. I will send a pithy reply and hope that I can escape from this thread with at least a shred of my dignity intact."


No, you said that. I made some valid points, backed them up with commentary from prominent pundits and you have barely acknowledged any of the facts that I have put forward. That is ignorant. I never said I was Jeffery f--in Sachs and knew every detail of the issue at hand. In fact, if there are things that I am not sure of, you could've pointed them out in a more obedient demeanor. Instead you have chosen to be insulting.
HOW GRAND OF YOU!

Also, you (and others) who may be intelligent on the issue, seem to believe that you know more or have more authority on the issue than certain political pundits(nobody specified) and, moreover, ignore and dismiss them as "idiots" or say they "miss the point." I can assure you that those you dismiss probably are mor informed and have achieved a high degree in this world by not being idiots. By calling them idiots or dismissing them makes you look foolish.

Your earlier posts were civil, intelligent and provakative. Now, you are simply being rude, obnoxious and insulting for absolutely no reason. I read your posts, acknowledged your POV, agreed with you somewhat and acted in a polite manner. Unfortunately, you have now have chosen otherwise. How sad.


I look forward to more "friends" of this community to pat each other on the back like children and lambast someone simply b/c they present a SLIGHTLY different POV. Funny, I thought many U2 fans were passionate, classy and had more to offer than others. Now, I am not so sure.
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Old 06-07-2002, 06:43 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally posted by MBH
I look forward to more "friends" of this community to pat each other on the back like children and lambast someone simply b/c they present a SLIGHTLY different POV.
you seem to keep accusing other members either of:
a) following Bono like mindless sheep because some do not agree with the article you posted

or

b) sticking up for eachother no matter what

is it that impossible that we simply do not agree?

many of the conclusions made in the article you posted are correct
I don't think I've seen people denying that
some of the conclusions differ from ones point of view: happens, that's ok
most people who do not agree with the article (myself for instance) seem to think that some of the accusations made against Bono and Drop the Debt team doesn't show the writer is well-informed (I for one have heard/read Bono say that financial aids aren't the solution, but since we are responsible for robbing Africa of it's recourses it's the least we can do until we do figure out a way that on how to help - but I guess adding that wouldn't benefit the rest of his article) + the overall tone of the article is not nice (it shows the writer is about as biased against Bono as we are biased towards him)
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Old 06-07-2002, 07:39 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally posted by MBH


No, you said that. I made some valid points, backed them up with commentary from prominent pundits and you have barely acknowledged any of the facts that I have put forward. That is ignorant. I never said I was Jeffery f--in Sachs and knew every detail of the issue at hand. In fact, if there are things that I am not sure of, you could've pointed them out in a more obedient demeanor. Instead you have chosen to be insulting.
HOW GRAND OF YOU!

Also, you (and others) who may be intelligent on the issue, seem to believe that you know more or have more authority on the issue than certain political pundits(nobody specified) and, moreover, ignore and dismiss them as "idiots" or say they "miss the point." I can assure you that those you dismiss probably are mor informed and have achieved a high degree in this world by not being idiots. By calling them idiots or dismissing them makes you look foolish.
I will say that he's got a point here.. A lot of the replies are of one genre.. 'You Haven't Done your Homework'... or 'He Obviously Hasnt' done his homework... (Then proceeds directly to pot shots at Rush's Weight)."...

I will say I'm very skeptical of Bono's true intentions as I have alluded to earlier, but I will not go into that.

I am a supporter of the whole African Aid Idea, as well as Capitalismizing their Scenarios, but I do find myself agreeing with articles like O Reilly's... Sooo.. I ask to you out there who always retort with 'DO YOUR HOMEWORK'.. Explain to those who have said before that they support the African Aid Idea from the position of what Bono is saying, what he is proposing, I mean, ya'll can insult people as much as you want, but at least educate them afterwards and tell them why you think they're such jackasses.. Hahha.., but MBH is apparently looking to learn about this Homework that all of you guys say you've done.. But MBH.. you really haven't hit celebrity until you've been Targeted as a 'Dumb Fuck' by Mugg.. hahha..

Your Friendly Neighborhood Arbitrator,
Hahha.. A celebratory Champagne douche anyone?

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Old 06-07-2002, 09:09 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally posted by sulawesigirl4
thanks, diamond. I do think that if nothing else, at least people are thinking (hopefully) about the issue and from the looks of the following article, Mr. O'Neill might be about to push for some actual results. Read on...

Now this is a GOOD article.
We gotta make this happen.

Mug and MBH stop fighting.

OReilly did make a pt. or 2, bottom line though we need to move quicker and w responibility and be results oriented..
Everyone agrees w/this.

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Old 06-07-2002, 10:51 PM   #46
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Quote:
Originally posted by sulawesigirl4
I do think that if nothing else, at least people are thinking (hopefully) about the issue and from the looks of the following article, Mr. O'Neill might be about to push for some actual results.
Sula, this is exactly what Congressman Bachus was saying in the audio file we listened to last night: the importance of making poeple aware of and thinking about the issue. I am optimistic that good things will begin to happen.

MBH & Lemonite:

Have y'all found any economists who say the same things that Rush Limbaugh and Bill O'Reilly are saying? I am just curious. Much of the other side's info contains information from Paul Sachs and other knowledgeable economists. Most of your side is composed of catch phrases from a shock jock and a former tabloid tv anchor. Also: you keep commenting on past aid efforts, but you seem to be overlooking that the emphasis here is on providing aid in a new manner that seeks prevention and a cure for economic instability, not just temporary relief of the symptoms.

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Old 06-07-2002, 10:55 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally posted by sulawesigirl4
but the musician's remarks weren't so shrill that he undercut his effectiveness with gray-haired Republicans who still think U2 is a SPY PLANE.
I found this comment to be intriguing, and z edge is so vain that he probably thought the quote was about hi.

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Old 06-08-2002, 12:08 AM   #48
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this thread is ridiculous. i can't believe i wasted the last 4 minutes of my life reading this drivel.

and it could have been so interesting...
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Old 06-10-2002, 12:07 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally posted by Salome
you seem to keep accusing other members either of:
a) following Bono like mindless sheep because some do not agree with the article you posted



I never said that. In fact, I have acknowledge that many people on this site are intelligent and that is the reason that I indulge in conversations here in the first place. Sometimes, people gang up on others if they disagree and many people are sensitive to criticism of U2/Bono(myself included).



or

b) sticking up for eachother no matter what

is it that impossible that we simply do not agree?



That is fine. However, there is no need to pass others off as "idiots," imply that they "haven't done their homework," and ignore important facts that have been presented. Nobody ever said that you or anyone else must agree with a certain article; although, acknowledgement of well-thought, factual remarks is advised.


many of the conclusions made in the article you posted are correct

THANK YOU!



I don't think I've seen people denying that
some of the conclusions differ from ones point of view: happens, that's ok
most people who do not agree with the article (myself for instance) seem to think that some of the accusations made against Bono and Drop the Debt team doesn't show the writer is well-informed (I for one have heard/read Bono say that financial aids aren't the solution, but since we are responsible for robbing Africa of it's recourses it's the least we can do until we do figure out a way that on how to help - but I guess adding that wouldn't benefit the rest of his article) + the overall tone of the article is not nice (it shows the writer is about as biased against Bono as we are biased towards him)

In some cases, as I've pointed out in the past, that is true.
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Old 06-10-2002, 12:14 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally posted by kobayashi
this thread is ridiculous. i can't believe i wasted the last 4 minutes of my life reading this drivel.

and it could have been so interesting...

Yeah, you could've been doing something useful and productive with your time like watching great playoff hockey between Carolina and Detroit!

BTW, Detroit will not lose another game this year!(although, Carolina deserves much credit; despite many doubters, they won the East and have gone toe to toe with a great Detroit team....how long b4 this post is moved to "Put 'em Under Pressure?"...LOL!
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