Ongoing Mass Shootings Thread pt 2 - Page 47 - U2 Feedback

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Old 02-18-2018, 05:14 PM   #921
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Those Parkland kids are a lot more articulate and involved than I was at that age. When I was 16 I was more interested in trying get laid and look like Bono.

Anyway, sucks that they have to worry about this crap at their age. I hope all the politicians they're going to meet over the next few months don't lie to them too bad.
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Old 02-18-2018, 06:30 PM   #922
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It does feel different to previous shootings. It's mega impressive watching them make their voices heard. I love the shit out of it. And they're doing it without fence-sitting or not-all-men-ing or taking exaggerated offence at a forum post.
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Old 02-18-2018, 07:53 PM   #923
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18 and 14 year old brothers

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Old 02-19-2018, 12:27 AM   #924
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18 and 14 year old brothers



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That’s so senselessly sad.

It’s completely unbelievable to me that anyone could believe that this is reasonable collateral damage for the affording civilians the privilege to own assault rifles. Absolutely maddening. This is one pretty rare issue where I genuinely don’t see a reasonable “other side”.
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Old 02-19-2018, 07:12 AM   #925
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They did survive, the teacher died protecting his students. No 14 year old should ever be typing texts like those. It hurts so much to even look at that.
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Old 02-19-2018, 07:18 AM   #926
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It’s completely unbelievable to me that anyone could believe that this is reasonable collateral damage for the affording civilians the privilege to own assault rifles.
You could certainly pass a new assault weapons ban (and I believe they should) that would be Constitutional, in my opinion. I just don't see why these are things civilians need to own. You sure don't need them for self-defence or hunting.

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This is one pretty rare issue where I genuinely don’t see a reasonable “other side”.
While I don't necessarily agree them, I can certainly see the arguments the "other side" (i.e. owners of assault weapons and those who believe in the right to own them) would make.

First, they'd tell you that owning their assault weapon is a right, not a privilege. I disagree with this, I think even post Heller that you can regulate assault weapons, but that's the first argument their side would make.

They'd also point out that the vast, vast majority of gun violence in the US is carried out by hand guns, not assault weapons, and that in fact the number of homicides carried out by rifles of all kinds is statistically insignificant. They'd point out that most (if not all) of the mass shootings that have occurred in recent history would not have been prevented by any version of a serious assault weapons ban that's been proposed. They'd point out that the deadliest school shooting in American history (VA Tech) was done with hand guns. They'd point out that most mass shootings are planned weeks or months in advance, and someone doing such careful planning can get ahold of a weapon if they want, no matter what the laws.

They'd say, correctly, that the overwhelming majority of assault weapons owners are law abiding, and of the millions and millions of assault weapons that are out there, only a handful have been used in the commission of a crime. So why, they'd ask, are you going after assault weapons and not handguns, when the latter are the ones doing almost all the killing? They'd ask if you want to solve the problem, why are you proposing things that won't solve the problem?

As I said, I'm not saying I agree with all this. I'm putting that in bold because someone will come along and inevitably say "why do you support school shootings" or similar rubbish (not saying you, I know you're not prone to irrational outbursts Dig). I can make all the arguments on the gun control side also. In fact I don't think there's anything in Heller that prevents a new assault weapons ban. I also think there are other things you can do post-Heller that are still Constitutional....things like fixing the background check system, and gun violence protective orders, something most people have never heard of but a few states have tried that might stop at least the unstable from purchasing a gun (legally, anyway). And yes, an assault weapons ban, by all means.

I don't think your Second Amendment is worth killing or dying for. I think you should repeal it and get rid of most of the guns. But the reality is, in a post-Heller world, where the SCOTUS has said that owning a gun in an individual right protected under the Constitution, there's only so much you can do. That doesn't mean you don't do it. But I think pols should be honest with Americans about the limits to what can be done legislatively, starting with the Parkland survivors.
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Old 02-20-2018, 12:15 PM   #927
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I understand and agree that it’s important to have the facts right, but this “well, actually” bullshit about the number of “school shootings” is distracting from the fact that another 17 kids are dead in yet another preventable tragedy, and people are fed up.
I don't think you can discount the impact of "fake" numbers on those middle ground fence sitters (the worst) that you need to get anything done in this country. If you give someone who is starting to weaken any reason to believe things are hyperbole, you can lose them.

It's like the 1 in 100 concept in customer service (though it is more like 1000). A customer has 99 good encounters, one bad, and reacts to the bad as if it is the reality. We HAVE to be accurate in this debate...the facts are bad enough. No, a kid killing himself in a closed school lot, or even in an open school lot (happened when I was in high school) should not be in this particular debate. Mental health of kids and gun access...all feed into that.

But this is the social media war. Welcome to it. The bots and the Russians used it to great effect. Mostly with fake news, but they didn't get called out on it by the right people. Social media wins these days...these kids are fucking heroes for what they are doing, both the live tweeting and the refusal to back down to politician lies and threats and memes diminishing their very existence. But we have to be accurate. The correct/righteous always has to have their shit correct, so no one can be distracted.

The meme is a stupid one and inaccurate and does a disservice to the groundswell. The fact that we are talking about it? Doesn't that reflect what will happen in real life, but more?

This isn't a black/white world. We can be properly focused on the issue at hand, getting some work done to stop these shootings, while also pointing out that meme was cringeworthy for what it included under the title it used.
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Old 02-20-2018, 06:39 PM   #928
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Fuck bumpstock bans. A useless token gesture.

Has a bumpstock ever even been used in a school shooting?
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Old 02-20-2018, 07:05 PM   #929
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Fuck bumpstock bans. A useless token gesture.

Has a bumpstock ever even been used in a school shooting?
They were used in Vegas.
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Old 02-20-2018, 07:06 PM   #930
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I realize that, but I don't think it does anything to address the real problem, which is how easy it is for a psychopath to get a gun.
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Old 02-20-2018, 07:36 PM   #931
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It's not nothing.

It's not enough, but it's more than they were willing to give up just a couple of months ago.

Need to keep the pressure on. Change will come.
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Old 02-21-2018, 07:21 AM   #932
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I realize that, but I don't think it does anything to address the real problem, which is how easy it is for a psychopath to get a gun.
You're right that doesn't address the real problem, but it is a step that should probably be taken nonetheless.

The problem is the scattershot (no pun intended) approach to dealing with these things. Vegas was about "bump stocks" (and oddly silencers, though no silencer was used in the shooting). After Columbine it was all about closing the "gun show loophole". Then after Charleston it was the "Charleston Loophole", which was a flaw in the existing background check system.

Now we're back the AR-15, at least until the next mass shooting that's done with handguns, or an illegally modified rifle. Then it will be all about that.

Things like improving the background check system and gun violence restraining orders have proven to be at least somewhat effective and theoretically at least could have bipartisan support.
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Old 02-21-2018, 10:48 AM   #933
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Ongoing Mass Shootings Thread pt 2

So to the argument that both sides do it;

Which side is attacking child victims of school shootings as “crisis actors” or “paid by the democrats” to speak against gun control.

We heard a little of this with Sandy Hook. Now it’s becoming more visible with this FL shooting.

Here’s the thing, kids these days are fucking savy. They have grown up with social media, smart phones, cameras, video, YouTube/streaming. They’re not afraid to speak in front of a lens. It’s literally what they do every day with their friends.

I didn’t have access to the internet until i was in college. So if i needed information, i had to check out a book. Kids now are smarter because they have all the information at their finger tips.

It’s disgusting what the NRA/GOP/AltRight are doing. What’s different now than sandy hook? Trump has enabled this behavior. He’s allowed it to come through his own tweets and statements. So these idiots now feel safe enough to come out into mainstream.
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Old 02-21-2018, 12:40 PM   #934
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God damn these kids are inspiring
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Old 02-21-2018, 12:49 PM   #935
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kids or actors?????
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Old 02-21-2018, 01:08 PM   #936
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God damn these kids are inspiring
This

This generation is savvy. They have been hardened on social media and by having their every movement (sometimes self) documented. They understand how to push buttons, good and bad.

This generation has dealt with pressures we did not have to deal with. It's been said a million times, but why not one more...can you imagine if there were phones with cameras documenting your teen years? Your every mistake? Every time you said something wrong in anger?

These kids are pretty old souls in some ways, and refreshingly idealistic.
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Old 02-21-2018, 01:08 PM   #937
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I just said what BEAL said.

Sorry
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Old 02-21-2018, 02:02 PM   #938
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If they're as savvy as they appear, they won't allow their movement to be hijacked by a national gun control group, and particularly not by a political party.

What to watch will be who speaks at their upcoming marches. If it's mostly survivors and their families, this could work. If it's a lineup of the same politicians giving the same speeches, it won't.
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Old 02-21-2018, 03:22 PM   #939
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If the message is authentic, it should resonate.

The message is authentic. Politicians have to speak. Leaders should lead. I watched the real time of these kids on Twitter...other than taking the F bombs out, this is their message, and it is time stamped and there for anyone questioning authenticity to see.

But, yes...there will be politicians. There will be a party presence. There is a pretty huge election in 10 months. The Republicans have no problems seizing on these kinds of moments in their favor. It is a huge issue, but one issue facing a nation that has the ability to right a lot of the wrongs of the 2016 election.


It would be absurd, in my opinion, to expect these kids to carry that weight for 10 months.


To me, expectations of purity in this message are just set ups to debunk it should there be any move toward the political, which is a necessary component to the change of laws.
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Old 02-21-2018, 03:37 PM   #940
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God damn these kids are inspiring


they give me hope for the future
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